Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2

[Spazkat9696]

Has anone read anywhere if the twins saw/heard anything. I thought I read they were all in the same bed why take her and not one of the others? I too am curious about all the changing stories. I wonder how/if the parents were questioned. Maybe they are not as quick to suspect family as we are here.

 

[CarpeDiem]

I read this morning that the twins are believed to have stayed asleep the entire time, as they also say Maddie was too. Among other indicators, she didn't grab her favorite stuffed doll.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Furious,i am with you. I have wondered myself, why everyone is convinced that she was abducted. Yes she is missing but, how would we know for sure that she was abducted? We can't possibly know that for sure because she was left alone with two younger children unsupervised. That fact being stated. Why is everyone so sure that she was abducted? Because her parent say so? I sure hope that people are not so focused on one theory that they "can't see the forest for the trees". I am not accusing her parents of harming her but, it would not be the first time that has happened. I too have thought about the possibility that Maddie woke up and left the room on her own to look for her parents and possibly met with foul play at that point or, was injured or has possibly drowned. The whole situation no matter what has happened is so tragic for this little girl.

They must believe, as do I, that the parents would have had too limited of an availability to dispose of her body, they would have found her by now, if not other forensic evidence. If they were involved, BIG IF, I'd be checking that route the Mom ran the other day. Also, the timeline is much longer than we think now IF they were involved. Perhaps it should start the last time an adult besides the two of them saw Maddie.

 

[scandi]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

LE returns to Ocean Club to reconstruct scene
http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Int...ame=Desaparecimento%20de Madeleine McCann
Snippet
"Three inspectores of the Judiciary Policy had covered, during the afternoon of this tuesday, some zones in the interior of the Ocean Club, the tourist enterprise of where disappeared, it has 18 days, the English child, Madeleine McCann. According to Express it could observe, the attentions of the inspectores had centered in the part of the front of the apartment of the McCann and in a way since the exit of this until the one interior zone of the Ocean Club. The inspectores had made some times the gone passage of and come back. Later they had taken as a way that leads until the backs of the house of the mother of Robert Murat, the only one arguido of the process. This behavior of the inspectores accuses that the inquiry not yet will have clarified the reconstitution well on what will have been transferred in the night where Madeleine disappeared. The investigators will be to test in the land some hypotheses, comparing passages and the time that delays to cover them, as well as the some possible exits for where the child will be able to have been led. By the way, the geography of the zone where he is situated the Ocean Club, in the Village of the Light, in Lakes, allows some escapes, for small ways inside of the tourist enterprise. Some of them meet protected by vegetation. . . . . ."

 

[CarpeDiem]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Int...4355&name=Desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann

Good link, quite interesting!

 

[scandi]

On page 411 of thesame main link of the post above is this:


http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

 

[Spazkat9696]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

LE returns to Ocean Club to reconstruct scene
http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Int...4355&name=Desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann
Snippet
"Three inspectores of the Judiciary Policy had covered, during the afternoon of this tuesday, some zones in the interior of the Ocean Club, the tourist enterprise of where disappeared, it has 18 days, the English child, Madeleine McCann. According to Express it could observe, the attentions of the inspectores had centered in the part of the front of the apartment of the McCann and in a way since the exit of this until the one interior zone of the Ocean Club. The inspectores had made some times the gone passage of and come back. Later they had taken as a way that leads until the backs of the house of the mother of Robert Murat, the only one arguido of the process. This behavior of the inspectores accuses that the inquiry not yet will have clarified the reconstitution well on what will have been transferred in the night where Madeleine disappeared. The investigators will be to test in the land some hypotheses, comparing passages and the time that delays to cover them, as well as the some possible exits for where the child will be able to have been led. By the way, the geography of the zone where he is situated the Ocean Club, in the Village of the Light, in Lakes, allows some escapes, for small ways inside of the tourist enterprise. Some of them meet protected by vegetation. . . . . ."

Yes I had not heard she was crying out for her dad 2 nights before she went missing, and they had to go back to their villa. If this is true you would think they would have had doubts about leaving her. I wonder if they gave the kids something to make them sleep, it could be the reason the twins did not wake up when their sister went missing.

 

[scandi]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

 

[mjak]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

Scandi, I too am finding inconsistancies from what I have read. There is a strange complete lack of emphasis by LE on the parents. I am coming to the conclusion either LE had more info behind the scenes that leds them convinces them the parents are not involved or LE in portugal does not recognize the possibility the parents could be involved.

mjak

 

[scandi]

I got this off of page 412 of the same thread and it tells what Madeline has wrong with her eye:

Coloboma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_iris_coloboma


I had no idea it was a condition she had, and it could be this is the only problem she has. It is just that this problem often shows up with other problems that are described here.

The only other thing I read about her on the MP Report is she has a dark spot on her leg. Scandi

 

[CarpeDiem]

If it's an apartment, like a timeshare, someone else would have keys, access.

 

[scandi]

Scandi, I too am finding inconsistancies from what I have read. There is a strange complete lack of emphasis by LE on the parents. I am coming to the conclusion either LE had more info behind the scenes that leds them convinces them the parents are not involved or LE in portugal does not recognize the possibility the parents could be involved.

mjak

Could it be that the local LE is intimidated by the wealthy vacationers? Both physicians?

I don't think the UK investigators will be intimidated in any way by them however. lol They are some of the best in the world from what history shows us.

Now it could be the LE recreation of the scene that took place there last night {the 22nd Port time} could be dealing with some inconsistencies they have discovered in what their guys haf=ve learned and what the family has stated. I was fascinated to learn in this development of Ocean Club RM's mothers house backs up to a road very close to where the McCann apt is. And that there are several escape routes out of that development, several of which are through areas sheltered by trees!

I also am amazed this site I found has so much info that is not out therre! The MP Report alone was a boon to find. Scandi

 

[Furious]

Believe me when I say I really hate the fact that I even need to bash these parents but what they did was stupid. Now, back to the idea that she left the room of her own accord: If the parents truly did check in every half hour or whatever then Madeleine may have been told, "we're just down the road...not far away eating....or something to those regards" so isn't it VERY possible that she woke up and went to look for them? I think it is very possible. Besides the idea that she got hurt after wandering away, here is another senario. Now say some stranger, no ill will intended, found a wandering 3 year old in the streets at night and spoke no english....lets say this person (male or female) did a dumb thing, but not a SICK twisted thing, and took the child home to wait till the morning to bring her to the police station. However, by the time the morning rolled around the whole world spun upside down and FOUL PLAY was cried and the media circus had begun. Now this stranger could think, "if I turn her in I might be charged, my life ruined". I'm just painting alternate concepts here folks......the law is based on "reasonable doubt" right. So we now have FOUR very plausible possibilities.

1) the parents were involved
2) she was abducted
3) wandered away and got hurt - drowned, fell in some ditch, a well etc
4) wandered away, was found...now the person(s) who found her are afraid due to the allegations that she was abducted

There you go folks.......my brian in action. At the end of the day, once again, it all comes back to the parents and I hope they are charged. This is not much different then leaving a child in the car on a hot day - it's stupid. I pray for this little girl.....she was so sweet. I hate this world sometimes!!!

 

[scandi]

If it's an apartment, like a timeshare, someone else would have keys, access.

Hi Carpe, That was a comment by a poster, but the way it was stated, in CAPS that it was an apt and not a hotel room leads me to know what they're talking about.


That is very interesting what you say. The scene was compromised they said, with family and friends, so fingerprints were not a good thing to catch at the scene.

The grandma I think it was, made a comment I read elsewhere today saying the family thinks the perp came in through the window, picked up a sleeping Madeline who they don't even think realized she was being picked up by a kidnapper, and exited out the front or maybe only door.

Makes me wonder, since this came from family, if it wasn't an inadvertant slip of the tongue if these parents were in the habit of giving the children a little something to make them sleep before they went out for the evening! Just thinkin'.

 

[scandi]

Yes I had not heard she was crying out for her dad 2 nights before she went missing, and they had to go back to their villa. If this is true you would think they would have had doubts about leaving her. I wonder if they gave the kids something to make them sleep, it could be the reason the twins did not wake up when their sister went missing.

I just read your post Spazka, and I just posted I am thinking the kids were maybe given something to make them sleep while the parents were gone.

Could that be why the parents weren't worried about leaving them alone? If they medicated them, heck, they wouldn't wake up till morning probably!~

ETA: BTW, when we first learned about this I read that the other parents in their party left their kids too. I know I posted this, but there were 8 or 9+ children in the group and Madeline was the oldest.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I cannot imagine anyone finding a child wandering at night and not immediately finding a police officer or other person in authority to help locate the child's parents...so #4 makes no logical sense to me. I think we can rule that one out completely.

I don't think the parents are involved in her disappearance because of their detailed schedules and their abilis when she went missing. They were seen before, during, and after she vanished. So I think we can also rule this out. The police are obviously satisfied with their alibis, too.

If the child wandered away, the window wouldn't have shown signs of someone breaking into the room. She wasn't strong enough to have 'jimmied' the window open. So they have ruled this out with good reason.

Leaving us with an abduction...which is what they are concentrating their efforts on and is where we should concentrate OUR efforts! At the end of this horrid tale, the parents will be dealt with accordingly...but for now...they don't know any more than we do so let's move on.

I believe the police are following every lead possible at the moment and they have made some strides in finding Maddy...telling me they are on the right track. To be helpful to Maddy in our 'think tank' here...we need to start looking at what we already know from reports and go from there.

Is she still in the country? Was she sold or given to someone for a blackmarket adoption? Could she be with a sex predator? What does their suspect actually know and can we find out more about him prior to this? These are questions we can start debating and trying to find answers to. Let's get back to finding Madeleine and stop with the parents at this point. They are not the issue.

Let's get this back on track!

 

[Spazkat9696]

I don't get it I won't leave my son alone even to just check the mail. When he was born my hubby was in Iraq I would put him in one of those things you strap to your chest and zip him in my coat to walk the dogs (it was cold out) Even though we lived on the second floor and I could have dead bolted the door. What if there had been a fire? I don't even like to leave him alone in the living room, and he's 4 now. Mainly because he opended the dead bolt to a stranger one when I was in the shower day talk about scarry. Well that dosen't happen anymore. Even if I am not in the shower my hubby has to call so I can unlock all the new chains and latches on the door before he can get in after work. Don't get me wrong we live in a nice enough area but bad things can happen anywhere and people need to realize that before they leave their kids. I do think these parents are having to much fun for their child to be missing running tennis daycare for the twins. They need to be charged with child neglect they have said they left their 3 child alone that's neglect.

 

[scandi]

Here's another jewel I found on that same main link, pp 405:


"This from the Scottish Daily Record today {May 22, 2007}:

MADELEINE McCann's kidnapper grabbed her as she slept and carried her away without waking her brother or sister, her family believe. Relatives of the snatched four-year-old are convinced that twins Sean and Amelie, two, slept through their sister's abduction.

And they believe that if the twins didn't wake up, it means Madeleine didn't make a sound as she was taken.

Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, told the Daily Record yesterday: "We are pretty sure the twins slept right through.

"They weren't able to tell their parents anything about the abductor.

"We believe Madeleine slept right through the moments she was taken from the room, which would have meant there was no noise.
"It breaks my heart to think of the way it would have happened. I honestly try not to think about it."

According to press reports in Portugal, there were no signs of forced entry or a struggle in the room.

Thought this might be of interest to you."

I was in error and had said Grandma said it, but it was Madeline's Aunt Philomena. Bet they'll rue the day she made this comment!

Scandi

 

[scandi]

I cannot imagine anyone finding a child wandering at night and not immediately finding a police officer or other person in authority to help locate the child's parents...so #4 makes no logical sense to me. I think we can rule that one out completely.

I don't think the parents are involved in her disappearance because of their detailed schedules and their abilis when she went missing. They were seen before, during, and after she vanished. So I think we can also rule this out. The police are obviously satisfied with their alibis, too.

If the child wandered away, the window wouldn't have shown signs of someone breaking into the room. She wasn't strong enough to have 'jimmied' the window open. So they have ruled this out with good reason.

Leaving us with an abduction...which is what they are concentrating their efforts on and is where we should concentrate OUR efforts! At the end of this horrid tale, the parents will be dealt with accordingly...but for now...they don't know any more than we do so let's move on.

I believe the police are following every lead possible at the moment and they have made some strides in finding Maddy...telling me they are on the right track. To be helpful to Maddy in our 'think tank' here...we need to start looking at what we already know from reports and go from there.

Is she still in the country? Was she sold or given to someone for a blackmarket adoption? Could she be with a sex predator? What does their suspect actually know and can we find out more about him prior to this? These are questions we can start debating and trying to find answers to. Let's get back to finding Madeleine and stop with the parents at this point. They are not the issue.

Let's get this back on track!

Hi SS, I do agree with your idea of discussing the actual abduction of Madeline, esp since we are a crime forum and not a parenting one, but tonight I have learned of some discrepancies regarding what is in the MP Report by local LE and what was said by family members. And I think any true investigator would include those things in his agenda.

One other thing that really bothers me now. Why would the aunt believe a perp could enter the room, pick up one sleeping child lying inbetween 2 sleeping others and leave, feeling most assured that any of the children did not open or blinked an eye?

Scandi

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I know from personal experience that my kids could sleep through anything after a rough day of playing. They didn't need to be drugged to do that. It was natural for them because after being in the sun, the surf, and the sand...they were worn out. It doesn't surprise me at all that Maddy wouldn't wake up while being moved. I have carried my kids in many times from car rides or moved them from me rocking them to their beds. They were oblivious. Also, when you have children near the same ages, as I did...they get used to sleeping through sounds that would wake up an adult every time.

This story doesn't raise any red flags for me. The police probably witheld the information of the window to the press.

To Scandi: If we had access to LE's actual reports and were interviewing the family members ourselves...I would agree. However, we can only go by accounts written by mostly foreign journalists and have no way to know what is really true. Statements can be taken out of context and misconstrued easily. I don't think we can say they are true discrepancies. I don't believe the family has a thing to do with Maddy's disappearance and neither do the police or the father would not have been free to leave to return to the UK for any reason.