Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 9

[englishleigh]

Colomom can that scent be washed away? I know blood can't but what about a death scent?

I wouldn't think so, but maybe Kate thinks it can....yes, the timing of that washing is unfortunate if they are innocent...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

In my humble opinion, the only thing Kate is possibly guilty of is participating in the cover-up.

It is what most people would say anytime a woman could be guilty of murdering their own child, isn't it? We would love to think she could not be responsible in any way, but people lose their tempers and act irrationally striking out at their kids. Who knows?

 

[T-Rex]

I haven't followed the case all that closely--just the high points--but have been reading up on it lately.
Do you guys really think the parents did it, or are you just considering all options?

 

[missacorah]

We didn't commit crime


By BEN ASHFORD
August 08, 2007








KATE McCann has hit back at her critics, insisting: “It’s not us who committed the crime.”

She and Gerry were criticised because they left their children alone as they had dinner.

But mum Kate said: “We felt so safe at the resort. People have been coming here for 20 years and leaving their kids.
“Hundreds have written to say they do the same when they go on holiday. It’s not us who committed the crime.”
Kate insisted her relationship with Gerry remained strong.
And she said she has no plans to return home, adding: “I can’t bear the thought.” Kate said US experts had given her hope with tales of missing kids who were found alive after long periods.
But she admitted Madeleine might be dead, saying: “It’s possible. All I can do is hope she will come back one day.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007360549,00.html

 

[colomom]

Colomom can that scent be washed away? I know blood can't but what about a death scent?

Jdee...these dogs are absolutely amazing:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/cadaverdogs.html

"Despite the long and distinguished history of canines in law enforcement, their capabilities and applications are still emerging. One relatively new area of specialization, that is very promising, involves the use of canines to detect the presence of human remains. Resourceful canine handlers have found that dogs can be trained to detect human remains long after death., despite burial or attempted concealment. Trained dogs are able to distinguish between human remains, animal remains, and a wide range of other odors that would normally be expected to distract them. Thus, their ability to distinguish between sources of similar biological odors enhances their application in the area of Human Remains detection (HRD)."

Everything I have read indicates that these dogs cannot be fooled.

 

[colomom]

I haven't followed the case all that closely--just the high points--but have been reading up on it lately.
Do you guys really think the parents did it, or are you just considering all options?

If the question was phrased "Are you convinced the parents did it?" or "Are you still on the fence?", I would be still on the fence. This case is unbelievable with all the twists and turns and I would not be suprised if the truth is completely different than what we might think.

We are definately considering all options, I think most of us would rather it was not the parents. Although I would rather it be the parents than a pedo ring.

 

[CaliKid]

I haven't followed the case all that closely--just the high points--but have been reading up on it lately.
Do you guys really think the parents did it, or are you just considering all options?

In absence of any other possibility that makes sense, the parents' strange behavior over the past three months and, now, evidence that leads the JP to believe Madeleine died in the apartment and that the McCanns were responsible- yes! As awful as it seems, we think they did it.

 

[colomom]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...+fresh+slurs+from+Portuguese+media/article.do

Portuguese media steps up smear campaign against Madeleine's parents

Picture of Gerry talking the twins for a stroll :silenced:

 

[CaliKid]

and I read in another blog that a Sunday Mirror article it stated Kate washed Cuddle Cat because it was grimmy and no longer smelled of Madeleine.

Insanity...

She washed Cuddle Cat because it had suntan lotion all over it. But I doubt it was lotion from when Madeleine was alive! :furious:

 

[CaliKid]

Jdee...these dogs are absolutely amazing:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/cadaverdogs.html

"Despite the long and distinguished history of canines in law enforcement, their capabilities and applications are still emerging. One relatively new area of specialization, that is very promising, involves the use of canines to detect the presence of human remains. Resourceful canine handlers have found that dogs can be trained to detect human remains long after death., despite burial or attempted concealment. Trained dogs are able to distinguish between human remains, animal remains, and a wide range of other odors that would normally be expected to distract them. Thus, their ability to distinguish between sources of similar biological odors enhances their application in the area of Human Remains detection (HRD)."

Everything I have read indicates that these dogs cannot be fooled.

Just about the only place they can't be used is a landfill because the smell of rot is everywhere.

 

[Morag]

I thought the timing of washing Cuddle Cat was interesting...right around the time that it was reported that a cadaver dog could detect the scent of death...

Perhaps there was more than one cuddle cat in the family...And the washing story was intended to explain any small differences in appearance from the "unwashed" cat she had been carrying.

When this first started, I was sure that Murat was a lurking pedo who planned the abduction, knowing that kids were left alone at that resort. Now I think, hmmm, why would a man with a plan like that choose to target a child sleeping between two other children, rather than a solo girl? And two year olds are more than capable of saying what they saw, if asked in the right way. The abductor could't have been sure that they wouldn't wake and be able to ID him.

I just couldn't see the parents as perps. Now I am not at all sure...

One other thing- although I have known English parents who were accustomed to putting their children to bed very early on summer evenings, I don't know if that custom still prevails. But on May 3, sunset was not until 830pm. The kids were all apparently put to bed by 6pm, when the sun was still high in the sky...how did they get those kids down so easily, night after night? Or did they?

As others have noted, Kate has varied the time when she discovered Madeleine's disappearance. I believe that the time they went to the tapas bar has been variously stated as 700,730,800...Perhaps they went back and forth a few times, trying to get the children down...And Jane Tanner (?) arrived well after nine- were her children less docile than the others?

Here's a crude translation of one bit of the wiretaps story posted by CatLynette:

He has remembered myself that, about one week after the disappearance of the son and already after the PJ having dear to clarify the version of abduction presented for the parents, Gerald McCann per- maneceu more than in those police installations during 13 consecutive hours, having left shortly after the 03,00 the dawn.

Already Kate, also heard in the same height, finished for leaving more early (22.00), alegadamente for if feeling tired. In the next displacement to the PJ, among others facts, will be collated with the text of the telefónicas colloquies and change of e-mails,

The bolded part seems to say that Gerry was interrogated for 13 hours, until 3AM, while Kate left at 10PM. So he was interrogated separately from her, but it isn't quite clear if this was right after the disappearance, or more recently. If it did occur early on, this could mean that there was constant surveillance of the family from the very beginning. And now all of the interrogations are being compared to the wiretaps and emails...

Does anyone remember if the twins were taken to England for the christening?If not, perhaps it is because their passports are being held.

Found it:
Mrs McCann travelled to England with her two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, and was re-united with her husband Gerry, 39, who was in London meeting police involved in the investigation.

 

[AfterMidnight]

Some time ago I read an article about a cabin on a cruise ship. They tested for body fluids, blood, semen, snot, urine, etc. Guess what? Almost every surface in that cabin tested positive, and that was after it had been cleaned and ready for the next passenger. I have no reason to doubt the same would hold true for the rental apartment.

 

[colomom]

Some time ago I read an article about a cabin on a cruise ship. They tested for body fluids, blood, semen, snot, urine, etc. Guess what? Almost every surface in that cabin tested positive, and that was after it had been cleaned and ready for the next passenger. I have no reason to doubt the same would hold true for the rental apartment.

Eeewwwwww, that seals it, I am never going on a cruise ship. No wonder they have those viral outbreaks :sick:

 

[englishleigh]

Some time ago I read an article about a cabin on a cruise ship. They tested for body fluids, blood, semen, snot, urine, etc. Guess what? Almost every surface in that cabin tested positive, and that was after it had been cleaned and ready for the next passenger. I have no reason to doubt the same would hold true for the rental apartment.

Yes, but did it test positive for DEATH?

 

[CaliKid]

Perhaps there was more than one cuddle cat in the family...And the washing story was intended to explain any small differences in appearance from the "unwashed" cat she had been carrying. ~snip~ He has remembered myself that, about one week after the disappearance of the son and already after the PJ having dear to clarify the version of abduction presented for the parents, Gerald McCann per- maneceu more than in those police installations during 13 consecutive hours, having left shortly after the 03,00 the dawn.

Already Kate, also heard in the same height, finished for leaving more early (22.00), alegadamente for if feeling tired. In the next displacement to the PJ, among others facts, will be collated with the text of the telefónicas colloquies and change of e-mails,

The bolded part seems to say that Gerry was interrogated for 13 hours, until 3AM, while Kate left at 10PM. So he was interrogated separately from her, but it isn't quite clear if this was right after the disappearance, or more recently. If it did occur early on, this could mean that there was constant surveillance of the family from the very beginning. And now all of the interrogations are being compared to the wiretaps and emails...

I don't think the parents have ever been questioned separately. In one early interview KM was allowed to leave earlier than GM, and he remained for 3-4 hours afterwards

 

[BethInAK]

</H2>

Sighting claim in Belgium

A child therapist had said she was "100% sure" she saw the missing four-year-old at a restaurant in the Flemish town of Tongeren, not far from the Dutch border, on July 28.

I have to say that to say you are "100% sure" you can identify someone from seeing a couple of pictures, somewhere entirely else in the world, seems very odd to me. I can imagine saying "It looked EXACTLY like her" but even if it did, how could you be "100% sure".

 

[BethInAK]

The article I read sounded as if there was enough blood on that wall to call it a homicide, IMO. People don't normally bleed on walls. It would be very difficult TO bleed on a wall actually without force of some kind behind a splatter, being thrown, or placed against it during/immediately after an incident. (It was also stated in another article that no one had died in that apartment before the McCann's visit which I guess was according to the hotel people.)

Lets say I cut my finger and it was dripping a little blood, and so I shook my finger to try and shake off pain or shake off blood. It could easily get on the walls. Or what if I had a cut and then touched the wall and left a smear?

 

[BethInAK]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,...tml?channel=Sun+Exclusive&clipID=1347_SUN3080
But mum Kate said: “We felt so safe at the resort. People have been coming here for 20 years and leaving their kids.
“Hundreds have written to say they do the same when they go on holiday. It’s not us who committed the crime.”

Hundreds of people beat their children with belts on a daily basis. Does this make it ok?

 

[BethInAK]

Yes, but did it test positive for DEATH?

I gather that its common to have a passenger die on a cruise due to the average age of cruise passengers.

 

[englishleigh]

I gather that its common to have a passenger die on a cruise due to the average age of cruise passengers.

It will be interesting to see if the blood found in in the apartment is Madeleine's....that coupled with the scent of death will be pretty irrefutable evidence that she died in the apartment, and died bleeding. Add in the reported wiretap evidence of the McCanns talking to each other and on their phones about Maddie's death, and it's a pretty tight case against them.