Madeleine McCann found?

[brit1981]

The did not wait for 45 minutes, they were called within a few minutes. The police did not turn up for the best part of an hour however.

He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

The witness confirms that the girl's father went to the reception to call the police as soon as her disappearance was noticed and that twenty minutes had passed. The GNR took 30 – 35 minutes to arrive. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

as for people coming in an dout fo the flat...
Yes, some of the friends entered the apartment, yet it was the police (both GNR and PJ) who failed to prevent further contamination of the crime scene. They even invited people in to the apartment to make a statement (Jane Tanner), allowed the dog handlers and their dogs to walk in and allowed Silvia Batista to go into the children's bedroom and remove things. According to the forensics report the fingerprint expert made a total mess of it. There were dogs' footprints mixed with the fingerprint powder found in the children's bedroom and next to the patio doors, all of which made it difficult to find possible traces of an abductor that could still have been present in the apartment. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077710/Rebuttal of "Fact" 15

The link I provided is a site which links to the primary sources, as in this case there are severla witness statements I think this is better to link to rather than copying and pasting page sof witness statements here.

But as for a few people going into the bedroom, it seems very few did and that was just to double check she was not hiding or something or to see if she coud ahve climbed out of the bedroom window (I saw a news article about a child who had done this at a MW resort in egypt).

 

[Clutchbag]

the police phone logs PROVE they were not called within a few minutes but at 10 41 pm and police arrived within ten minutes or so, NOT until the best part of an hour as you allege

PROOF of this is in the final report and also in the phone logs which is de facto as opposed to some witnesses hazy recollection

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-BoUnwYyddB8/UEiYsWQwOBI/AAAAAAAABN4/G7Alnzqy0S0/s1600-h/image%255B8%255D.png

Eta your mythsexposed link is a massively biased site so not good to link to really for anything much, stick to mccannpjfiles, the ACTUAL police files

 

[Sabot]

The Police were called by The Ocean Club Reception. Any delay was down to them.
And as for The McCann PJ Files website, they contain countless mistakes, mistranslations and omissions. Not to be trusted at all.

 

[fabgod]

The Police were called by The Ocean Club Reception. Any delay was down to them.
And as for The McCann PJ Files website, they contain countless mistakes, mistranslations and omissions. Not to be trusted at all.

So even though the McCann files have copies of original files there, we should not trust them and trust instead a blog called madeleine myths exposed or something?
yeah, ok lol!

So in your opinion, the McCanns were not to blame for the delay in calling the police at 20.41 if I remember correctly, it was in fact the reception staff at fault, even though the McCanns and friends all had mobile phones, it wasnt down to the McCanns to actually contact the police to report their own daughter as missing?

 

[fabgod]

The did not wait for 45 minutes, they were called within a few minutes. The police did not turn up for the best part of an hour however.

He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

The witness confirms that the girl's father went to the reception to call the police as soon as her disappearance was noticed and that twenty minutes had passed. The GNR took 30 – 35 minutes to arrive. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

as for people coming in an dout fo the flat...
Yes, some of the friends entered the apartment, yet it was the police (both GNR and PJ) who failed to prevent further contamination of the crime scene. They even invited people in to the apartment to make a statement (Jane Tanner), allowed the dog handlers and their dogs to walk in and allowed Silvia Batista to go into the children's bedroom and remove things. According to the forensics report the fingerprint expert made a total mess of it. There were dogs' footprints mixed with the fingerprint powder found in the children's bedroom and next to the patio doors, all of which made it difficult to find possible traces of an abductor that could still have been present in the apartment. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077710/Rebuttal of "Fact" 15

The link I provided is a site which links to the primary sources, as in this case there are severla witness statements I think this is better to link to rather than copying and pasting page sof witness statements here.

But as for a few people going into the bedroom, it seems very few did and that was just to double check she was not hiding or something or to see if she coud ahve climbed out of the bedroom window (I saw a news article about a child who had done this at a MW resort in egypt).

Wasnt that blog set up to try and rubbish the leaflet Tony Bennett produced concerning Madeleine McCann?
Who is the person making all the verdicts on there? are we supposed to take that as "the truth" just because someone posts an opinion on a blog?

 

[Sabot]

So even though the McCann files have copies of original files there, we should not trust them and trust instead a blog called madeleine myths exposed or something?
yeah, ok lol!

So in your opinion, the McCanns were not to blame for the delay in calling the police at 20.41 if I remember correctly, it was in fact the reception staff at fault, even though the McCanns and friends all had mobile phones, it wasnt down to the McCanns to actually contact the police to report their own daughter as missing?

The McCanns didn't speak Portuguese or know which Police Force to call.

The Official Files are mainly in Portuguese. A lot of them have been badly translated. Google Translations really won't do.

 

[Sabot]

Wasnt that blog set up to try and rubbish the leaflet Tony Bennett produced concerning Madeleine McCann?
Who is the person making all the verdicts on there? are we supposed to take that as "the truth" just because someone posts an opinion on a blog?

From what I have seen so far, too many people rely on opinions on Blogs. Fortunately the legal process doesn't do this. They require Proof, and there isn't any.

 

[Gem2626]

Wasnt that blog set up to try and rubbish the leaflet Tony Bennett produced concerning Madeleine McCann?
Who is the person making all the verdicts on there? are we supposed to take that as "the truth" just because someone posts an opinion on a blog?

No one is 'making up verdicts' if you read it you would see that these 'opinions' are backed up with primary sources from the tapas 9, witnesses and the PJ which all support what Brit1981 is saying.

 

[fabgod]

From what I have seen so far, too many people rely on opinions on Blogs. Fortunately the legal process doesn't do this. They require Proof, and there isn't any.

Oh, thanks for all that insight, it was very enlightning, so what would be the point of having a thread here on websleuths in your opinion?

 

[fabgod]

No one is 'making up verdicts' if you read it you would see that these 'opinions' are backed up with primary sources from the tapas 9, witnesses and the PJ which all support what Brit1981 is saying.

Strange that, because what Brit1981 is saying is word for word what the blog in question states.
As for your comment on "verdicts", they are posted all over the blog in red as though they are posting something that has to be taken as "gospel"
Sorry to burst any bubbles but its a blog posted by another unknown somewhere out there in cyberspace - he she means absolutely nothing, his/her opinions are just that, opinion, in no way a source for any reputable information.

I always thought that blogs were not main stream media links?

Feel free to keep posting someones blog opinion as some kind of evidence or proof or even fact, unfortunately I don't think it will mean much to most sleuthers here

 

[fabgod]

Gem2626
I had a quick look at the blog you seem to put so much faith in and found this

Discussion

Sometimes in life things happen which you can't explain. And sometimes dogs bark against the wrong tree.



In the Zapata Case County Judge Patrick Fiedler ruled that the evidence was inadmissible, saying that the dogs were unreliable. He quoted analysis of the three dogs’ performance record, which showed that they were, respectively, incorrect 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.

You do know that Eugene Zapata confessed to the murder?
I wonder if the blogger over there at madeleine whatever it is called knows yet?

Hey, Cadaver dogs were right in the Zapata case, how unfortunate for the blogger and the McCanns to have picked up on that case and for the guy to actually admit that the dogs were correct in alerting.
Not much credibility on that blog imo - next!

 

[Clutchbag]

The McCanns didn't speak Portuguese or know which Police Force to call.

The Official Files are mainly in Portuguese. A lot of them have been badly translated. Google Translations really won't do.

Google translations? the mccannpj files were not translated with google. if there are the occasional errors and oversights it is normal in the vast amount of pages therein. Nothing major.They are unbiased and without an AGENDA therefore MORE trustworthy than various others. Why you claim google was used when it was portuguese and english speaking people working thanklessly for hundreds of hours is beyond me. Dont use the site then or quote from it at all. And the point about the time the police were called was not who called them but stating as a fact they were called a few minutes after ten and took best part of an hour to arrive which is categorically untrue and designed ONLY to make them look bad. Mistakes were made just in any LE but at least people should not state things as fact when they arenot, its not really conducive is it to sorting the wheat fromthe chaffe, only ADDS to the problem.

Please make a list of the many innacuries and mistranslations for perusal

 

[Gem2626]

Strange that, because what Brit1981 is saying is word for word what the blog in question states.
As for your comment on "verdicts", they are posted all over the blog in red as though they are posting something that has to be taken as "gospel"
Sorry to burst any bubbles but its a blog posted by another unknown somewhere out there in cyberspace - he she means absolutely nothing, his/her opinions are just that, opinion, in no way a source for any reputable information.

I always thought that blogs were not main stream media links?

Feel free to keep posting someones blog opinion as some kind of evidence or proof or even fact, unfortunately I don't think it will mean much to most sleuthers here

If someone can provide links to primary sources (in this case statements from the tapas 9, independent witnesses and the PJ) then I don't see what the problem is. If that person explains it in his own words and highlights relevant information than it makes no difference to me there is a primary source attached which backs up what he is saying. The PJ allowed the crime scene to further become contaminated (several people's statements tell us this) and they should have known better.

All that site does is provide a shortcut to information that I would otherwise spend much more time searching for.

 

[badhorsie]

Gem2626
I had a quick look at the blog you seem to put so much faith in and found this


You do know that Eugene Zapata confessed to the murder?
I wonder if the blogger over there at madeleine whatever it is called knows yet?

Hey, Cadaver dogs were right in the Zapata case, how unfortunate for the blogger and the McCanns to have picked up on that case and for the guy to actually admit that the dogs were correct in alerting.
Not much credibility on that blog imo - next!

Is the blog to which you refer McCannMythsExposed? If so it is maintained by a bunch of ProMcCanns who post on this forum amongst others.
One of the major players made a first post on the McCanns which I cannot forget along the lines of 'they could not possibly be suspicious as they are decent people, doctors'

 

[Donjeta]

A number of truly outstanding and unselfish wonderful people have been doctors bt then so was Harold Shipman.

 

[Clutchbag]

of course it doesnt mean all doctors are capable of crimes but the logic of being doctors they must be innocent is totally vacuous at best, crime knows no class profession or reason,it just does not come into it

this child has been denied justice for five plus years, it remains to be seen if its at the door of some scarlet pimpernel abductor or closer to home

 

[Clutchbag]

If someone can provide links to primary sources (in this case statements from the tapas 9, independent witnesses and the PJ) then I don't see what the problem is. If that person explains it in his own words and highlights relevant information than it makes no difference to me there is a primary source attached which backs up what he is saying. The PJ allowed the crime scene to further become contaminated (several people's statements tell us this) and they should have known better.

All that site does is provide a shortcut to information that I would otherwise spend much more time searching for.

but sabot says the mccannpjfiles to which that site links are google translated and therefore untrustworthy canthave it both ways

 

[SapphireSteel]

The PJ did not allow the crime scene to become contaminated.

The crime scene was contaminated way before they even got there.

The first police on the scene was the local GNR. People including the McCanns, the Tapas 7, other guests, and MW staff had already gone through the apartment to double check, while the McCanns sat on their bed and watched.

No attempt at all was made to secure the scene by any of these professionals who could be expected to realise the importance of an uncontaminated scene.

They did not.

It is not the PJ's fault the crime scene was contaminated. They weren't even there for a further 2 hours.

:banghead:

 

[Clutchbag]

The PJ did not allow the crime scene to become contaminated.

The crime scene was contaminated way before they even got there.

The first police on the scene was the local GNR. People including the McCanns, the Tapas 7, other guests, and MW staff had already gone through the apartment to double check, while the McCanns sat on their bed and watched.

No attempt at all was made to secure the scene by any of these professionals who could be expected to realise the importance of an uncontaminated scene.

They did not.

It is not the PJ's fault the crime scene was contaminated. They weren't even there for a further 2 hours.

:banghead:

gerry mccann tampered with evidence by trying to raise the shutters from outside, he allowed others to do the same, he had no right to do this before police arrived but this was an examp,e of his controlfreakery before police arrived

 

[SapphireSteel]

gerry mccann tampered with evidence by trying to raise the shutters from outside, he allowed others to do the same, he had no right to do this before police arrived but this was an examp,e of his controlfreakery before police arrived

Manipulation of the scene.

I can't get over the fact they were all sat about writing out "timelines" while 4/5ths of the hotel was out searching the beach in the dark for them.

Just, mind boggling.

They were CSI enough to compose a timeline unasked, but not to secure the scene of the crime?

Uh huh.

ullhair: