Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Pisces Cloud]

As far as I'm concerned it seems quite possible that Madeleine could have walked out and gone to search for her parents but in that case I am somewhat at a loss to explain what happened to her afterwards and why she hasn't been found.

I don't think a child of that age would have got far without someone intervening. Extremely, rotten luck if it was someone with ill-intent. I'd imagine that there would have been a few people roaming about at the time.

 

[goldengirl57]

Do you remember the little girl they found in a swamp in a blue box in the states?, they thought it could have been maddy and the box travelled to the states by sea they even did a DNA.

I suppose if that is a possibility then she could have wandered off to the beach on her own and fallen into the sea...never to be found again...a lot of people never get found in the sea sadly....

 

[goldengirl57]

I don't think a child of that age would have got far without someone intervening. Extremely, rotten luck if it was someone with ill-intent. I'd imagine that there would have been a few people roaming about at the time.

Hi Pisces yes but then if there were when did the abductor find time to snatch her out of the apartment.

ALSO what rotten luck if the child was targeted, and she walked straight into the arms of the abductor waiting in the shadows......

 

[haden]

Actually Amaral was pointed to Murat because of Tanner saying it was him she saw.

.

Actually today I read a statement from OC personnel who pointed out at Murat being there that night.

Processos Vol V


Pages 1289 – 1290

Witness Statement

Silvia María Correio Ramos Batista

Date: 2007 – 05 – 15

She is responsible for maintenance of the OC resort in P da L. Because of her profession she knows many people from the English community who are resident in P da L.

She knows the Murat family, had done for about 30 years. Mainly Mr Murat and his wife, Jenny. Mr Murat was linked to a civil construction business and the development of tourist resorts, in Salema as far as she knows. Mr Murat died some years ago.

The Murats live in a house near to the OC, called Casa Liliana. When asked she says she does not remember whether the Murats have a son.

When asked, she says that on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance, 3rd May, she was called by her boss at about 22.30. As she lives in Lagos, she arrived shortly afterwards at the resort. There were about 60 people close to apartment 5 A, helping to look for the girl.

She remembers, but is not absolutely certain, given the time that has passed, that from the start, there was an individual helping to look for Madeleine, about 1.70 tall, with sort, light brown hair, with thin framed, brown glasses, who was also helping to search.

She does not remember at what time she saw him. She does not remember how he was dressed. She does not remember whom he was with or know if he arrived on foot or by car.

The same individual, she knew later to be the son of the Murat’s, Robert Murat.

Robert speaks fluent English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR in Lagos, and later the PJ to translate the witness statements of some English individuals.

In principal, she thinks it should be possible to confirm whether Murat was there on the date that Madeleine disappeared as well as other details, with Paul and June from the Duke of Holland bar and Mr Byron from the property administration company JNB in P da L.

She clarifies that on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or even Monday (07-05-2007) she spoke to Robert for the first time, during breaks between interviews, where he was acting as translator.

She describes him as a pleasant and easy going individual. He was quite open and extrovert in the conversations with her, he never spoke of anything personal.


Reads, ratifies, signs.

 

[haden]

Do you remember the little girl they found in a swamp in a blue box in the states?, they thought it could have been maddy and the box travelled to the states by sea they even did a DNA.

I suppose if that is a possibility then she could have wandered off to the beach on her own and fallen into the sea...never to be found again...a lot of people never get found in the sea sadly....

I thought that too but I am not sure if she was strong enough to open that patio doors.
I know now people will jump here saying their 4 year old can open the door but not all of the children have the same strength.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO I don't think it's about a child's physical strength so much but some doors can be technically tricky for a child to open if there is simultaneous lifting, sliding, pushing, turning etc. involved. But a three year old child who goes out in the night might easily leave the door open behind her.

 

[haden]

JMO I don't think it's about a child's physical strength so much but some doors can be technically tricky for a child to open if there is simultaneous lifting, sliding, pushing, turning etc. involved. But a three year old child who goes out in the night might easily leave the door open behind her.

You are clever! I never thought about that. Patio doors which are sliding doors were not found open.

 

[goldengirl57]

JMO I don't think it's about a child's physical strength so much but some doors can be technically tricky for a child to open if there is simultaneous lifting, sliding, pushing, turning etc. involved. But a three year old child who goes out in the night might easily leave the door open behind her.

my grandson is the exact same age of Maddy. He had no problems opening our patio doors or closing them. As a 4 year old he was a little monkey always climbing on things giving me a heart attack lol.

At 4 (which maddy was more or less), they go to school in UK.

 

[cobalt sky]

It's a good thought, but I think it extremely unlikely that Maddie left the apt by herself. Based on what we know about the previous nights before she went missing, when she awakened, she stayed in the apt and cried. For a long, long time. I doubt it would have been any different the night of the 3rd.

Even if she had somehow managed to open the back patio door, she likely would have gravitated to the areas that were familiar to her... she would have probably headed towards the pool/Tapas/playground area. Someone would have noticed her at some point, especially if she were crying/calling for her parents.

IMO

 

[Donjeta]

Were Madeleine's fingerprints found on the doors?

 

[haden]

Were Madeleine's fingerprints found on the doors?

I think this was reported as YES.. but I am not 100% sure on this.. It would be quite normal to find Madeleine's fingerprints in this apartment.

By searching for this I found a really rich and thoughtful analysis of Madeleine's case.
It seems to be the same type of the theory Scotland Yard is following..
The person even discounted Jane Tanner sighting and enlighten Martin Smiths, even before the Scotland Yard did it..
There are photos too
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-janosch.html

 

[Donjeta]

I thought you didn't approve of blogs as sources.

Is there something in particular that you'd like to direct our attention to? It's quite long.

 

[Inana]

He was convicted but in April the judge found Cipriano GUILTY OF MAKING ALL THE BEATINGS UP, so again i say it ALL the police officers those who were charged and those who were not were ABSOLVED from all blame...

ABSOLVED.

absolve
əbˈzɒlv/Submit
verb
past tense: absolved; past participle: absolved
1.
declare (someone) free from guilt, obligation, or punishment.
"the pardon absolved them of any crimes"
synonyms: exonerate, discharge, acquit, exculpate, vindicate;

...........................................................

AGAIN LINK HERE.....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

Relevant paragraphs....

Gonçalo Amaral, the former coordinator of the Criminal Department of Investigation of the Judiciary Police of Portimão was absolved of the crime of omission to denunciate [failing to complaint] and condemned to one and a half year for the crime of false statement, with a suspended sentence for the same period time.

The inspector António Nunes Cardoso was condemned to two years and three months for the falsification of a document, with a suspended sentence of two years.

The former Judiciary Police inspectors Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, Leonel Morgado Marques and Paulo Marques Bom, who were accused of having tortured Leonor Cipriano during the questionings2 at the headquarters of the PJ of Faro, were all absolved.

...............................................................................

I have linked this now about 5 times.

Leonor Cipriano lied lied lied, got them into trouble they were convicted but because she lied lied lied, they have all be ABSOLVED........FOUND FREE FROM GUILT............:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

A link to a blog is not evidence, nor even a good reference. One might as well reference Amaral's book, or Kate's book. they are obviously one sided. I have a blog on crime I've had for years. I have never followed the McCann case on my blog. But, all of my entries come with links to real articles from the press, but still tilt towards what I believe. Joana Morais is a Amaral supporter. One will only find pro-Amaral posts there.

Do you have a real link to something not biased?

 

[haden]

I thought you didn't approve of blogs as sources.

Is there something in particular that you'd like to direct our attention to? It's quite long.

No, the blog is not the proof.
I think there is no proof. I remember her fingerprints mentioned somewhere but not sure where and why, but I think this was not in connection with the patio doors.

The blog I posted has nothing to do with the answer, I thought it to be fantastic analysis of all options we discuss here. It also contains the details from the files I previously did not know and the person also went to the PDL and to the apartment and made the photos of apartments that were burgled like this one

and also inside pictures from the shutters

Only, the person assumes that Madeleine is dead and that she died that night in the hands of the abductor.. which might not be the case..but also assumes that she is either 100% dead or 100% alive, i.e worth looking for.

 

[cobalt sky]

Were Madeleine's fingerprints found on the doors?

After staying in the apt for nearly a week, imo it would be odd to NOT find Madeleine's prints on the doors.

 

[Donjeta]

After staying in the apt for nearly a week, imo it would be odd to NOT find Madeleine's prints on the doors.

Her prints on the doors would be expected after a week there and wouldn't tell us anything but not finding them would pretty much rule out the theory that she wandered out on her own.

 

[Donjeta]

No, the blog is not the proof.
I think there is no proof. I remember her fingerprints mentioned somewhere but not sure where and why, but I think this was not in connection with the patio doors.

The blog I posted has nothing to do with the answer, I thought it to be fantastic analysis of all options we discuss here. It also contains the details from the files I previously did not know and the person also went to the PDL and to the apartment and made the photos of apartments that were burgled like this one

and also inside pictures from the shutters

Only, the person assumes that Madeleine is dead and that she died that night in the hands of the abductor.. which might not be the case..but also assumes that she is either 100% dead or 100% alive, i.e worth looking for.

Yeah, well, who would disagree with that? There are no other options, she is either alive or dead but either way she needs to be found and the perp(s), if any, brought to justice.

 

[Donjeta]

A link to a blog is not evidence, nor even a good reference. One might as well reference Amaral's book, or Kate's book. they are obviously one sided. I have a blog on crime I've had for years. I have never followed the McCann case on my blog. But, all of my entries come with links to real articles from the press, but still tilt towards what I believe. Joana Morais is a Amaral supporter. One will only find pro-Amaral posts there.

Do you have a real link to something not biased?

The blog post is more or less a straight translation of this article

http://www.lux.iol.pt/nacionais/leo...tica-leonor-cipriano-prisao/1435391-4996.html

Perhaps easier for most of us to read than the Portuguese.

 

[haden]

Her prints on the doors would be expected after a week there and wouldn't tell us anything but not finding them would pretty much rule out the theory that she wandered out on her own.

I think the parents said Madeleine would never do that.. it was not in her nature.. and on the beginning they said they are convinced by the way the apartment was found that she never wandered.
It might be to do with her cuddle cat or with the opened shutter.

 

[Inana]

No, it was not a "personal opinion" - it included a translation of this report:

http://www.lux.iol.pt/nacionais/leo...tica-leonor-cipriano-prisao/1435391-4996.html

Excerpt from above link, translated from Portuguese to English:

"Contradictory statements about the attacks that were targeted were delivered between 2008 and 2009 , during the trial of inspectors who investigated the " Joana case " , which resulted in the conviction of two of the five defendants in the case .

The court gave as proven aggression , although without having ascertained the identity of the attackers .

Gonçalo Amaral , former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ of Portimão , was acquitted of the crime of failure to report and sentenced to a year and a half for the crime of making false allegations , were suspended for the same period .

The inspector António Nunes Cardoso was sentenced to two years and three months for document forgery , on probation for two years .

The former agents of PJ Paulo Pereira Cristovao , Leonel Morgado Marques and Paulo Marques Bom , who were accused of torturing Leonor Cipriano in interrogations conducted in the PJ in Faro , were acquitted ."