Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[redheadedgal]

Please could you give the gist of this article.

The Telegraph is now behind a paywall online to non-subscribers.

We are allowed a few free views per month, but once those have been used up we cannot read any more. As it's near the end of the month, many of us will have used up our free views.

not sure which browser you use, but in IE, go to TOOLS, then INPRIVATE BROWSING, which opens a new window where you should be able to read an article that is blocked

 

[aa9511]

The towers that were pinging were owned by....

Probably the big Telco's, like Vodafone and a few others.

Those companies and their records are NOT KEPT IN PORTUGAL.

Therefore the PJ had zero ability to force the Telco's hand over the ping records.

The British police (tardy to the party) finally got the records from the Telco's, and are now tracing those pings.

The McCann had wiped their call registers on the night so the PJ had no way of finding out who had called who that night.

Now, they do.

But I thought in, for example, Russell O'Brien rogatory, they specfically asked him about certain calls that he had made? how did they get that information?

And I thought there was a section in the Pj files regarding cell phone pings and a map?

 

[aa9511]

Who is "they"?

The Labour Government of the UK, now gone?

Or the current Government?

:dunno:

I do not think anyone from the UK Government willingly covered up Madeleine's disappearance.

I think that certain members of the 2007 Labour Government were as susceptible as the rest of us "these nice people cant possibly be involved" and as a courtesy, supported the McCann against the crooked and incompetent Portugese. It could be as simple as the UK Ambassador not liking the Portugese Ambassador, or Tony not liking whoever was head of state in Portugal at the time. Two leaders who don't get on can and do start wars so what's a little bit of non-cooperation? Big deal.

This is "conspiracy" this is an honest mistake by those in charge who have attempted to distance themselves ever since from what they inadvertently allowed to happen.

SS, I understand what you're saying. It reminds me of the Hannah Anderson story over here in the summer....she was "kidnapped," leading to a nation-wide search and everyone got involved and supported her, obviously sheriff's office over there in San Diego, plus FBI, and other specialized-units. It was full cooperation among many different agencies. Then there was the whole national media involved. Also Sheriff's office and I think another agency said FIRMLY that she was not involved in anything and is an innocent victim.

Now that some very questionable information is coming out slowly and also her bizarre behavior, and people are having quesitons about what really happened? But of course, all the people who supported her and stood there and said there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY she was involved, do we expect them to suddenly turn around and admit they were wrong? And that they publicly said things when they should have waited for the investigation to be over before they said anything?

It's the same way in the McCann case, IMO. People don't like to admit they were wrong, especially when they are looking to be re-elected.

 

[Jmoose]

It seems that there was a 8 month window for the testing and they were within that. Also, I didn't see anything about Kate's father verifying that the McCanns gave their children sedatives. I find that very hard to believe, to be honest, so I'm going to think he didn't, unless I find it written in the police files somewhere.


Possibly, but if I was innocent, in a foreign country and I thought an I'd keep my mouth shut too. I'd be surprised, anyway, if she wasn't advised to do that by a solicitor.

A little O/T, but why do we always think that the police in other countries are always incompetent when our own countrymen are in legal trouble abroad?

 

[Jmoose]

Actually syringe, without needle, is an item that could lay on the bedside table, in a bedroom, used by three toddlers, and there would be nothing ridiculous or evil in it. It's just easier to administer any fluid medication (such as Calpol, for instance) to a toddler, using a syringe, instead of a spoon. At least, when the little patient starts to wave his hands around, you don't end up with the medication on your hair, face and clothes

I used to use a syringe to give my children meds. It was a needle-less syringe which, if I was a little lazy, might have been left on my kid's night table.

 

[aa9511]

I am trying to wrap my head around this sudden "flurry" regarding the Madeleine case, first SY and then Portugal.

We know that the Pj dropped the case b/c they were at a dead-end and had no new leads, and also they wanted to investigate the Tapas9 further, but could not do that, and so were stuck on all fronts.

The SY became involved later. Opened up their own inquiry. Ruled out Tanner sighting. BUt they have done no new interviews with the Tapas9, is that correct?

But what did happen is that the Smith sighting, which was deliberately shelved during Pj investigation, is now re-opened and fresh.

Still....with regards to the Tapas9, don't they have the same information Pj did? Because to my knowldedge, SY has done no formal interviews of the Tapas group? So they are going based on all the infromation Portugal already had?

So.....I am very confused about how they could possibly have made any progress from what the Pj left off with. Without having some sort of additional information on the Tapas9. It is my firm belief that the Tapas9 were involved, I do not see how they could have any leads unless they have been doing some kind of covert-information gathering, such as maybe SY has been listening in on their calls, hacking e-mails, etc..

 

[SapphireSteel]

All I can say is, if you've got any interest in this case at all, Goncalo Amaral's book explains most of these questions.

Cell phones -

CELLPHONE USAGE
- all lines of investigation continue open, still locating known paedophiles in the Algarve, resident or tourists. Witness statements arrive and are analysed, especially those of Ocean Club employees and telephone records that were provided.

- very obvious that telephone records for 3 May are required. the 5A apartment coordinates are defined and details of all calls received/sent from local antenas are requested. (movements can be tracked with cellphones)

- on 4 May, the parents authorised the police to look at their cellphones to check for calls made and received:

Kate's phone: no calls made from 27April to 4 May; she received no calls from 11h22 on 2 May until 23h17 on 3 May

Gerry's phone: nothing prior to 00h15 on 4 May

However, inside Kate's phone there is a record of a call received from Gerry at 11h17, 3 May. But no record of the call on Gerry's phone. It had been erased.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html



Amaral also mentions that a PJ request to tap the Tapas phones was denied by a Portugese judge.

Presumably this privacy restriction covered the entire phone traffic of PDL, when all they are/were looking for was the McCann communication.

:cow:

ETA: investigations into missing children focus on eliminating the family first. This never happened and explains entirely why the PJ appeared to focus on the Tapas crew and "ignored" the gypsies, cleaners, the rest of the population of Portugal.

 

[Jmoose]

The towers that were pinging were owned by....

Probably the big Telco's, like Vodafone and a few others.

Those companies and their records are NOT KEPT IN PORTUGAL.

Therefore the PJ had zero ability to force the Telco's hand over the ping records.

The British police (tardy to the party) finally got the records from the Telco's, and are now tracing those pings.

The McCann had wiped their call registers on the night so the PJ had no way of finding out who had called who that night.

Now, they do.

I wondered why they needed the McCann's phones, when there are records of the calls elsewhere-it never made any sense to me that they would wipe their call registers...interesting!

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am trying to wrap my head around this sudden "flurry" regarding the Madeleine case, first SY and then Portugal.

We know that the Pj dropped the case b/c they were at a dead-end and had no new leads, and also they wanted to investigate the Tapas9 further, but could not do that, and so were stuck on all fronts.

The SY became involved later. Opened up their own inquiry. Ruled out Tanner sighting. BUt they have done no new interviews with the Tapas9, is that correct?

But what did happen is that the Smith sighting, which was deliberately shelved during Pj investigation, is now re-opened and fresh.

Still....with regards to the Tapas9, don't they have the same information Pj did? Because to my knowldedge, SY has done no formal interviews of the Tapas group? So they are going based on all the infromation Portugal already had?

So.....I am very confused about how they could possibly have made any progress from what the Pj left off with. Without having some sort of additional information on the Tapas9. It is my firm belief that the Tapas9 were involved, I do not see how they could have any leads unless they have been doing some kind of covert-information gathering, such as maybe SY has been listening in on their calls, hacking e-mails, etc..

The difference is entirely political.

The British were the ones who "developed evidence" implicating the McCanns in the first place.

They then mysteriously withdrew and stopped investigating leaving the PJ alone to try to deal with what had become an international political hot potato.

The PJ shut the investigation down because they could not proceed with it as the McCann had left town and weren't coming back.

The British Police should arguably have stayed with the investigation 6 years ago instead of first inserting themselves then disappearing without finishing their own investigation.

Now the UK has had a change of government. Times and alliances change. The politicians are all too aware that the McCann case is a bunch of corruption and entitlement just waiting to erupt, so are taking steps to contain it first, by "solving" it.

:twocents:

 

[Donjeta]

Phone tapping, as in, secretly listening in on their phone calls?

That is quite a different story from getting the pings or the call logs from the phone company, and requires more compelling reasons.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Phone tapping, as in, secretly listening in on their phone calls?

That is quite a different story from getting the pings or the call logs from the phone company, and requires more compelling reasons.

It is quite a different story.

Pings from a cell tower include releasing the private information of many innocent individuals.

Call registers are just that, registers within the phone.

I suggest at this point, the "missing" calls between the parents were sufficiently suspicious to not pursue the "every single ping in PDL" angle which would be enormously complex.

Small police force, limited funds. They have to spend their money wisely. The McCanns were proven to have deleted calls. Whose phones would YOU be interested in?

All of PDL, or just TWO?

:seeya:

 

[blefuscu]

I wondered why they needed the McCann's phones, when there are records of the calls elsewhere-it never made any sense to me that they would wipe their call registers...interesting!

The big question is: Why would parents of a child that has "disappeared" wipe calls from their phone memories in any case?

It's not helpful to the investigation, in fact it's hindering the investigation because even if there is an innocent explanation for both parents to delete phone activity from the handsets, as soon as the police notice the discrepancies between the handset and the paper records they are going to spend time investigating why the parents have deleted this information. If the McCanns had nothing to hide why delete these calls from the handsets?

 

[Donjeta]

Kate's phone: no calls made from 27April to 4 May; she received no calls from 11h22 on 2 May until 23h17 on 3 May

Gerry's phone: nothing prior to 00h15 on 4 May

However, inside Kate's phone there is a record of a call received from Gerry at 11h17, 3 May. But no record of the call on Gerry's phone. It had been erased.

Did they both have their cell phones in Portuguese time and exactly at the hour?
Portugal is one time zone off from the UK. I didn't change the time zone on my cell phone the last time I was abroad and I think it's a couple of minutes off even now.
If one of the phones was in Portuguese time and another still in UK time it could have been the same phone call and it just shows up as 00:15 4th May on one phone and 23:17 3th May on another.

 

[Donjeta]

It is quite a different story.

Pings from a cell tower include releasing the private information of many innocent individuals.

Call registers are just that, registers within the phone.

I suggest at this point, the "missing" calls between the parents were sufficiently suspicious to not pursue the "every single ping in PDL" angle which would be enormously complex.

Small police force, limited funds. They have to spend their money wisely. The McCanns were proven to have deleted calls. Whose phones would YOU be interested in?

All of PDL, or just TWO?

:seeya:

Yes but I thought you were saying that the PJ couldn't be bothered to request the McCann phone records and pings.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes but I thought you were saying that the PJ couldn't be bothered to request the McCann phone records and pings.

"couldn't be bothered" are your words. :waitasec:

I said that I understand if they decided not to bother chasing the Telcos through international courts to force them to release en masse records of foreign citizens phone pings. :dunno:

They already knew there was inconsistency in the phone evidence, at that point they possibly didn't even need to check the cell towers. They had plenty of other evidence to work too.

The McCann records were requested and never supplied.

The PJ by this stage were already dealing with -

The vanishing British police
The vanishing forensics
The Mighty McCann PR machine
International and internal political pressure
Non-cooperation and contradictions (read, lies) from the main parties


I can certainly understand if the PJ decided it was all too hard. It's not like they were short of suspects, or evidence, at that stage.

Unfortunately they just didn't have cooperation or support of their own government, who were under international political pressure to make it all go away.

:seeya:

 

[Jmoose]

The big question is: Why would parents of a child that has "disappeared" wipe calls from their phone memories in any case?

It's not helpful to the investigation, in fact it's hindering the investigation because even if there is an innocent explanation for both parents to delete phone activity from the handsets, as soon as the police notice the discrepancies between the handset and the paper records they are going to spend time investigating why the parents have deleted this information. If the McCanns had nothing to hide why delete these calls from the handsets?

I hear ya-I never delete stuff from my phone; are other people in the habit of regularly wiping their call records clean? I doubt it

 

[SapphireSteel]

Hell no, you get lazy you just want to pick up the last called number usually...if you call the same folks over and over that is, like people on holiday would do.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The latest from Team McCann -

It also emerged last night Madeleine’s parents are set to apply to become private prosecutors - ‘assistentes’ under Portuguese law - in the reopened criminal inquiry.

It will mean their legal team can work alongside state prosecutors so they are kept informed of all new developments and conduct their own private prosecution - running parallel to the state prosecution - against any future suspects charged over Madeleine’s disappearance.


The McCanns (pictured in 2007) will be able to be in court with their lawyer if they are granted prosecutor status once the secrecy order is lifted
Can press their own charges: The McCanns (pictured in 2007 after Maddie's disappearance) will be able to be in court with their lawyer if they are granted prosecutor status once the secrecy order is lifted

(modsnip)
<modsnip></modsnip>

They wouldn&#8217;t have access to all case files at present because of the secrecy order as &#8216;assistentes&#8217; - but would once the secrecy order is lifted.

Mr Alves said today: 'I will be applying for the McCanns to become assistentes in this case but don&#8217;t know yet when.

'Madeleine is the victim as well as her parents who are also her legal representatives.

<modsnip></modsnip>
(modsnip)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-files-suspects-face-trial.html#ixzz2imNCOziC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I'm sorry, is it just me, or is this latest McCann move outright strange?

(modsnip)

The only reason it makes sense is if they are using it to keep abreast of the investigation.

Why they would want to do that I don't know - the very next statement is that their lawyer and the PJ told them they're "no longer suspects" so why would they be applying to be party to a prosecution?

Who's paying for it? The Fund?



:scared:

 

[SapphireSteel]

<modsnip>

They never spoke of finding her on Crimewatch.

They spoke of "answers" and "resolutions" but not one word about "when we find her".

Not only do they appear to believe she is deceased, they also appear to believe she is unfindable.

<modsnip>

:twocents:

 

[haden]

For me, as I already stated, she is alive until proven opposite.

Conspiracy theories are not a proof !

There is an active police investigation going on at the moment by good and dedicated policemen on both Portuguese and British sides. Finally! Thanks god for this!

After all, PJ doesn't equal Amaral, does it? Even today there is a news that the public prosecutor in Portugal has said that the previous investigation wasn't good.. so this time it has to work! And by even opening it with the new fresh leads which were overlooked before is good enough news.
Not sure why people in here are in a bad mood re this... all negative.. it is not the end of the world that the Amaral failed in his theory and that a new fresh theory supported by real leads is going on right now.