Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Jmoose]

Scotland Yard is the elite policing force of this world. As long as they keep investigating and they are eager enough to find her I am happy with the current developments.

Hmm-Scotland Yard are investigating and searching for Madeleine because she is still missing, but not necessarily because she was abducted-there is a distinction. They have stated that they are searching for abductors, but not that they know an abduction definitely happened-there is a distinction here, too. Personally, I am leaning towards an abduction, but I think that some strange behavior on the part of the McCanns needs an explanation that Scotland Yard may want and won't get. It may be that they did sedate their children to sleep (not sure if that is against the law, but it's disgusting), and don't want to admit that they did, on top of leaving them alone while they "dined".

I never absolutely believe the info that the police or other LE release to the media, because my friend in LE says that not all of it is true (pick your own reason) and they don't have an obligation to keep us all informed as the investigation progresses. I know that many here believe that she is alive, but I won't hold my breath until they find her. IMO

 

[Jmoose]

Regarding the dogs.. their handler Martin Grime clearly says in his rogatory interview
They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

What about the cadaver dog?

 

[leilarose68]

Thank you but I am doing it for Madeleine.

Madeleine might be alive somewhere and someone will not report it because they think 'Nah, that is not her, she is dead.. I've seen it on internet'

All due to stupid people who think they are more clever than the scientists or because some psychic has told she is dead.

Actually it would be great if some real scientist explains in everydays wording why the samples are not from Madeleine and why the science has decided that she is not dead (from the sniffer dogs findings)

Regarding the dogs, even their handler has said that both dogs react on blood. BOTH dog react on blood, blood was found and this was not Madeleines blood.
There should be a BBC documentary on this because whatever is circulating on internet it is not good for Madeleine, it is pushing for the idea that she might be dead, when she as well can be alive!

<modsnip>(modsnip)
<modsnip> <modsnip> <modsnip> for an intruder to enter in the door, due to the nature of the lock there would have been evidence of disruption.
regarding the window: the only fingerprints on the window were from kate, and the fingerprints indicated she was OPENING, not closing the window. this is inconsistent with her saying that the window was open when she entered the room madeleine was missing.
also it would have been impossible for an intruder to get madeleine out of the window without leaving a trace on the bed or window.

<modsnip> (modsnip) the cadaver dogs, who have never been wrong in over 200 cases smelled a cadaver in the cabinet, behind the sofa, on kate's clothes and on madeleine's toy. they were forced to look at a few other apartments but smelled nothing there.
out of 7 cars the dogs were exposed to, they only smelled the cadaver scent in one of them---the mccann's rented car. explain that.AND all of this was videotaped. gerry mccann claims that the dogs smelling the cadaver scent
'doesn't mean anything!'
kate refused to answer questions at first----why would an innocent mother of a missing child refuse to answer questions unless she has something to hide?????

<modsnip></modsnip></modsnip></modsnip></modsnip></modsnip></modsnip>

 

[haden]

What about the cadaver dog?

One of them alerts on cavader too but both alert on blood.. but the handler cannot distinguish what the dog has alerted to..
He has to show the alerted place, then the sample is taken and given to labs to find out what that is.

What people are saying in here that the dogs have alerted on scents of death, that is simply not true. Read the files people.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078028/Rebuttal of "Fact" 29

 

[Linda7NJ]

The question here was about the blood behid the sofa, the Amaral's theory where Madeleine died..
In fact, he forgets to add that the blood was from his officer who took the sample

Plus I am sure that Scotland Yard has spoken to the Forensics Team before announcing that 'Madeleine is probably still alive'

The odds are astronomically against Madeleine being alive. That's a fact. It's a very sad fact, but a fact none the less. So ....if it's true ( and I'm highly doubtful) that Scotland Yard is claiming she's "probably alive".... They're working some other angle, lying or they're dumb as a box of rocks! IMO


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[leilarose68]

Hmm-Scotland Yard are investigating and searching for Madeleine because she is still missing, but not necessarily because she was abducted-there is a distinction. They have stated that they are searching for abductors, but not that they know an abduction definitely happened-there is a distinction here, too. Personally, I am leaning towards an abduction, but I think that some strange behavior on the part of the McCanns needs an explanation that Scotland Yard may want and won't get. It may be that they did sedate their children to sleep (not sure if that is against the law, but it's disgusting), and don't want to admit that they did, on top of leaving them alone while they "dined".

I never absolutely believe the info that the police or other LE release to the media, because my friend in LE says that not all of it is true (pick your own reason) and they don't have an obligation to keep us all informed as the investigation progresses. I know that many here believe that she is alive, but I won't hold my breath until they find her. IMO

with the cadaver dogs, discrepancies in deposition and kate mccann refusing to answer questions at first you think this is an ABDUCTION? people give these two wayyy too much credit just because it's hard to believe two educated, well to do folks would be this ghastly. well, all of the evidence points to madeleine dying in her home. there is absolutely no evidence of an intruder;;; if there were an intruder, there would have been a disruption on on the door (due to the nature of the lock) and there would have been marks on the window and/or on maddie's bed. the only marks on the window were from kate mccann, and the fingerprints showed that she would have been CLOSING the window, not opening it as she's said.

 

[Jmoose]

I don't know enough about current Scotland Yard findings and I am not a fly on their wall to secretly listen.. but if they after their 2 year investigation say she might be alive it gives me a hope that as well she might be alive.
I trust them!

She might be alive, because they haven't found a body-if she is, I hope they do find her (if she was my baby I would never stop looking, and torturing LE to do their best, too). But they aren't necessarily saying that they are looking for a living Madeleine because there is evidence of that aside from no body. There is a case here in the US of a 22 year old woman who disappeared 38 years ago, and the police detective with whom I had a conversation told me that they consider her to still possibly be alive because they've never found a body. This is in spite of the fact that she has never renewed her drivers license or used her social security number. I hope Maddie is alive and that they find her-but i don't count on it

 

[haden]

how can you possibly think she was abducted? for an intruder to enter in the door, due to the nature of the lock there would have been evidence of disruption.
regarding the window: the only fingerprints on the window were from kate, and the fingerprints indicated she was OPENING, not closing the window. this is inconsistent with her saying that the window was open when she entered the room madeleine was missing.
also it would have been impossible for an intruder to get madeleine out of the window without leaving a trace on the bed or window.

MADELEINE DIED IN THE APARTMENT. the cadaver dogs, who have never been wrong in over 200 cases smelled a cadaver in the cabinet, behind the sofa, on kate's clothes and on madeleine's toy. they were forced to look at a few other apartments but smelled nothing there.
out of 7 cars the dogs were exposed to, they only smelled the cadaver scent in one of them---the mccann's rented car. explain that.AND all of this was videotaped. gerry mccann claims that the dogs smelling the cadaver scent
'doesn't mean anything!'
kate refused to answer questions at first----why would an innocent mother of a missing child refuse to answer questions unless she has something to hide?????

USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE. AN ABDUCTION WOULD HAVE BEEN LOGISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

There are no scientific proofs that Madeleine died in that apartment.
Of course fingerprints will be from Kate, she lived there.
Someone taking Madeleine wouldn't be stupid to leave the fingerprints, they might have used gloves.
The crime scene was not preserved, it should have been emptied the moment the police first time entered, they could have found something but they allowed apartment to be cleaned by the cleaners.
The patio door was open, this could have been the point of entry and point of leaving too
The person also could have had the keys, many people ( shown in files) had the chance to have the keys, from the maintenance workers to the cleaners, previous guests etc.. the keys were usually available in service room and some people who worked there would even take them home ( I read this in files)

 

[BOESP]

The question here was about the blood behid the sofa, the Amaral's theory where Madeleine died..
In fact, he forgets to add that the blood was from his officer who took the sample

Plus I am sure that Scotland Yard has spoken to the Forensics Team before announcing that 'Madeleine is probably still alive'

But you just quoted an article above that said "might be alive." Might is not a restrictive word because might-not-be-alive is just a logical interpretation of "might be alive."

So, was it "might be" or "is probably"?

 

[aa9511]

I don't know enough about current Scotland Yard findings and I am not a fly on their wall to secretly listen.. but if they after their 2 year investigation say she might be alive it gives me a hope that as well she might be alive.
I trust them!

Ah, but I have seen two cases recently where the public opinion is one way based on having an incomplete picture of the evidence and what actually happened....and so far the sheriff's offices have taken the "mainstream" view and what the public wants it to do regardless of what the actual evidence says.

After that, I realize how great the police and the prosecutor's offices are as far as their power in CHOOSING what cases they decide to follow completely to the end to justice, and what cases they choose to throw to the back to let it collect dust or just say "case closed" because they don't want to deal with something that will cause a lot of stress to their office in terms of dealing with the public, etc..

If the SY goes through with this investigation and they still conclude that it was an abduction and the parents' are in no way involved, it's just gonna prove my point.

 

[leilarose68]

There are no scientific proofs that Madeleine died in that apartment.
Of course fingerprints will be from Kate, she lived there.
Someone taking Madeleine wouldn't be stupid to leave the fingerprints, they might have used gloves.
The crime scene was not preserved, it should have been emptied the moment the police first time entered, they could have found something but they allowed apartment to be cleaned by the cleaners.
The patio door was open, this could have been the point of entry and point of leaving too
The person also could have had the keys, many people ( shown in files) had the chance to have the keys, from the maintenance workers to the cleaners, previous guests etc.. the keys were usually available in service room and some people who worked there would even take them home ( I read this in files)

why did kate mccann refuse to answer the questions??? don't you think the innocent mother of a missing child would be desperate to tell the police everything she knew???

i still don't understand why someone would LEAN toward an abduction theory when you have two creepy parents who act nervous and haven't shown any real emotion since this thing has happened, cadaver dogs who pinpoint the mccann's house and car out of many other house and car options (and in relatively logical places too, a shelf in their cupboard, behind the couch, on madeleine's toy, kate's clothes...) , the fact that kate washed madeleine's toy, them hiring a PR person right away... it's super super shady. it makes perfect sense to me that they drugged their kids to help them sleep, perhaps their tapas friends did as well, madeleine hit her head or fell off the couch + there ya go. clearly they aren't above leaving their kids alone while they party, so i'm not obsessed with giving them the benefit of the doubt like some people are here.

 

[gord]

If it wasnt an abduction. Then the only other scenario is the parents and/or friends.

I have asked many times here for theories on how that happened.

Where was the body hidden in the available time lines after 5.00pm that night

How was it hidden so well for weeks that no trace or smell nothing.

How was the body then moved to a hire car weeks later whilst they were chief suspects and being tailed by the world's paps

There is a ton more v questions but these will do for starters

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[haden]

The odds are astronomically against Madeleine being alive. That's a fact. It's a very sad fact, but a fact none the less. So ....if it's true ( and I'm highly doubtful) that Scotland Yard is claiming she's "probably alive".... They're working some other angle, lying or they're dumb as a box of rocks! IMO


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This is true, you are right. But we have to have an open mind. Look at this blond girl who was today reported as found with Greek gypsies (she is on main pages of all papers for tomorrow). She had documents as if she was their child but the DNA proved she is not their child. Now Greek authorities are looking for her parents.
That case shows how easy in some countries is to obtain documents for false children.
Even in the UK, some Asian and African parents have children they claim they are theirs to claim benefit for them but they are in fact not their children.
Look at the Indian girl found in a cellar in the UK, she was there for 10 years, the family used her to do the chores and claimed government handouts for her.
There are many many children like this, I watched a documentary in the UK few years ago about the children like this.
There is a chance someone has Madeleine this same way..

 

[Linda7NJ]

This case will never be solved to some peoples satisfaction without a confession and Madeleine's recovery, regardless if she's living or dead.

IMO


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[haden]

If it wasnt an abduction. Then the only other scenario is the parents and/or friends.

I have asked many times here for theories on how that happened.

Where was the body hidden in the available time lines after 5.00pm that night

How was it hidden so well for weeks that no trace or smell nothing.

How was the body then moved to a hire car weeks later whilst they were chief suspects and being tailed by the world's paps

There is a ton more v questions but these will do for starters

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Actually the only good thing is that the technology has improved so much in the past 6 years.
I place my bet that the technology will find Madeleine.
Mobile phone research might help a lot.. not the conventional policing methods.
I wish to know only one thing, how many mobile phone towers are in PDL?
In Joanna Yeates case for example the killer was found by mobile phone pinging and his google searches.
The police has found his mobile phone pinging the tower near the murder scene at the time of murder and also the same mobile phone pinging a different tower where the body was found.
This is how he was caught!
In Madeleine's case the apartment is not so near the Smiths sighting. So there might be a possibility that there are two towers and that person's mobile phone has pinged two towers.. I am just praying for that !

 

[gord]

If people don't think there is a market out there for trafficking young girls then I suggest you do some reading. WS of all places know that this is happening all over the world and more than we would csre to think

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[aa9511]

Thank you but I am doing it for Madeleine.

Madeleine might be alive somewhere and someone will not report it because they think 'Nah, that is not her, she is dead.. I've seen it on internet'

All due to stupid people who think they are more clever than the scientists or because some psychic has told she is dead.

Actually it would be great if some real scientist explains in everydays wording why the samples are not from Madeleine and why the science has decided that she is not dead (from the sniffer dogs findings)

Regarding the dogs, even their handler has said that both dogs react on blood. BOTH dog react on blood, blood was found and this was not Madeleines blood.
There should be a BBC documentary on this because whatever is circulating on internet it is not good for Madeleine, it is pushing for the idea that she might be dead, when she as well can be alive!

bbm

Thank you for your oh-so-kind words. Thank you for keeping this debate "civil" and not hurling names at people.

Thank God for our freedom of speech, at least in the United States. I am free to look at the evidence and to write about it and discuss it, thank you very much.

 

[haden]

why did kate mccann refuse to answer the questions??? don't you think the innocent mother of a missing child would be desperate to tell the police everything she knew???

i still don't understand why someone would LEAN toward an abduction theory when you have two creepy parents who act nervous and haven't shown any real emotion since this thing has happened, cadaver dogs who pinpoint the mccann's house and car out of many other house and car options (and in relatively logical places too, a shelf in their cupboard, behind the couch, on madeleine's toy, kate's clothes...) , the fact that kate washed madeleine's toy, them hiring a PR person right away... it's super super shady. it makes perfect sense to me that they drugged their kids to help them sleep, perhaps their tapas friends did as well, madeleine hit her head or fell off the couch + there ya go. clearly they aren't above leaving their kids alone while they party, so i'm not obsessed with giving them the benefit of the doubt like some people are here.

I would refuse any questions in in an unfriendly atmosphere someone is trying to accuse me of a murder I haven't done..

 

[gord]

About the questions. Both gerry and Kate had answered many questions some the same. When they were made arguidos and the questions became increasingly aggressive and aimed at a confession her lawyer quite rightly pulled her out. Told her no comment till they found out what the f was going on

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[Linda7NJ]

If people don't think there is a market out there for trafficking young girls then I suggest you do some reading. WS of all places know that this is happening all over the world and more than we would csre to think

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I don't recall anyone claiming children weren't trafficked


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