Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Jmoose]

The story in this case is actually not about the McCanns but about Madeleine.
Endlessly discussing every McCanns move and ignoring and neglecting the fact that Madeleine is still missing is actually helping the abductors, and the Scotland Yard is currently believing that there are abductors.

Good night everyone, I hope with all my hearth that the detectives are heading somewhere and that soon they will find out what actually happened to Madeleine

If they discover deception on the part of the McCanns-will you be ok with that?

 

[SapphireSteel]

My opinion on this is simply that they haven't found a body, therefore she could still be alive

You don't count Cadaver as evidence that she died? Maybe not 100% evidence, but very convincing to Police Forces (the dogs were used by British LE)?

I do, I'm afraid.

I wish Eddie was wrong but there is no question as to what he smelt. To this day chills run up my spine when I watch the video.

There should not have been cadaver in the Renault.

If you accept there's a chance the dogs are correct, which common sense dictate we do, then you have to accept there was a cadaver in the Renault 24 days after Madeleine disappeared, also on cuddle cat.

The cadaver on cuddle cat disturbs me the most. It tells me the last time it touched Madeleine, she was already deceased.

:sick:

 

[FrayedKnot]

First telling = locked
second telling = unlocked
third telling = went through unlocked door and out closed window. :scared:

It is so Ramseyesque. Because they are smarter than everyone else and nobody would DARE question their ever-changing lies, um, I mean stories.

Just like the Ramseys.

I am baffled as to how these people manage to kill their babies and get away with it.

 

[FrayedKnot]

You don't count Cadaver as evidence that she died? Maybe not 100% evidence, but very convincing to Police Forces (the dogs were used by British LE)?

I do, I'm afraid.

I wish Eddie was wrong but there is no question as to what he smelt. To this day chills run up my spine when I watch the video.

There should not have been cadaver in the Renault.

If you accept there's a chance the dogs are correct, which common sense dictate we do, then you have to accept there was a cadaver in the Renault 24 days after Madeleine disappeared, also on cuddle cat.

The cadaver on cuddle cat disturbs me the most. It tells me the last time it touched Madeleine, she was already deceased.

:sick:

BBM.

This makes me ANGRY:banghead:

How can they look at themselves in the mirror each morning and not strangle on their own puke? uke:

 

[Jmoose]

does this matter really.
Are you trying to apply some conspiracy theory?
That a prime minister and whoever he is would help parents cover up the death of their child.
I am sure the prime ministers are very much informed before they stand to protect a family like McCanns. Not because they are doctors, but because they are being put in a very unjustified position.

Who has enough information yet to inform the Prime Minister that the McCanns categorically had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance? They really haven't cooperated with any aspect of impartial investigation yet-we'll see what they do during a more friendly one. I doubt that the Prime Minister would assist a miscarriage of justice, although well-connected people sometimes do get away with stuff.

 

[haden]

Would a savvy intruder have left any evidence to be found?

I don't lean towards a total stranger abduction, but realistically, it IS possible. The Mccanns couldn't have made it any easier, actually. If the intruder was familiar with the resort area/apartments, familiar with the village, and had been watching the comings/goings of the families for a few days, the perfect storm just may have brewed that night and the intruder took advantage of the opportunity.

Perhaps the intruder was watching and slipped in through the back patio door. You know, the one that the McCanns claimed to be able to see from the Tapas bar but was later proven that this was impossible. It only takes less than a minute or two to scoop up a sleeping child and slip out through the front door. Or even back through the patio door. There is also the possibility that the intruder had a helper, a look-out. As implausible as some may find this theory, there is always the chance that an intruder just got lucky and got away with it.

Still, at least three glaring problems with the IDI theory. 1) Why did Maddie not wake up and scream? Maybe he debilitated her somehow. Maybe she did cry... but by then, neighbors might have been used to crying coming from the apt and thought nothing of it. 2) The McCann's bizarre, attention-seeking behavior (particularly Gerry) after Maddie went missing. This, however, could be attributed to their own egos and reputationsbeing more important to them than the reality that they were negligent parents, which led to their daughter being taken 3) How to explain the cadaver dog hits? This is the tough one... I don't have enough knowledge of this subject, could they have been wrong? Doubtful. But, if the cadaver dog hits are such concrete evidence, why is SY taking such a firm stance that Maddie could still be alive? Does SY recognize and accept the cadaver dog evidence?

All my observations and opinions only.

It could be lots of things.
1. Mark Warner staff that was working with children did not have UK style child work clearance. These were young people, like university gap year students from all over the world. I researched this subject well. They were paid peanuts but went to work there just for a fun. Could among them be a dangerous individual who would 'sell a child' .. yes.. They came from all over the world, some of them working for Mark Warner in the winter in their winter resorts and in the summer in summer resorts.
I found it strange that as soon as Madeleine went missing the Mark Warner moved their staff from Portugal's resort to Greek resort. The staff that worked with Madeleine.. Why?
2. Tourists with ill intents. Yes because this was a family resort with children. Ideal for sickos.
3. Someone who lived locally, no matter what nationality as in PDL there were 500 Portugese, all rest foreign residents, in winter about 1000 residents all together, in summer the number could reach 20 000. April is the low season. Maybe few thousand visitors the most. My opinion.
Since there were crimes which were unsolved, it could as well be someone who lived there, worked there and was never caught. Maybe even someone with a good reputation but same time with criminal connections. There are people like that.
4. Stolen to order. Back in 2007 there was a report from a Spanish guy Antonio Toscano or something, who was of a belief that Madeleine was taken by a German man who lives on French border and Toscano even came to Portugal to give evidence about some sect who he believed operated in Spain and he said that the German man, the head of this group was in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. Toscano has been called a fantasist and even crazy. He named the German man. Not sure what came out of this, this was never reported further.To me this was a very very very interesting story and I urge anyone to read the Antonio Toscano reports.
5. Walked out and had accident on the street. Covered up by a local resident.
6. A member of the McCann group helped the abductor without the parents noticing. This was one of my theories but since the friends have been cleared by polices I stopped researching this theory.
7. Resort staff covered up crime.
8. Empty apartment next door, residents left that night, reported that the Police is searching for the Polish couple, were they these couple living in this apartment?
9. Local loner took her and nobody has seen him. Possible.
Etc etc..
My own most believable theory is that a resort worker with criminal contacts has entered the apartment, and has passed Madeleine through the window to accomplice and the accomplice left with her.

 

[Jmoose]

Who has enough information yet to inform the Prime Minister that the McCanns categorically had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance? They really haven't cooperated with any aspect of impartial investigation yet-we'll see what they do during a more friendly one. I doubt that the Prime Minister would assist a miscarriage of justice, although well-connected people sometimes do get away with stuff.

The odds are astronomically against Madeleine being alive. That's a fact. It's a very sad fact, but a fact none the less. So ....if it's true ( and I'm highly doubtful) that Scotland Yard is claiming she's "probably alive".... They're working some other angle, lying or they're dumb as a box of rocks! IMO


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They are not, of course, dumb as a box of rocks-so they are likely just working their way through things-let's wait and see what they come up with. I really doubt that they think she's likely to be alive...but we don't know what information they have. My guess (and my guess only) is that they won't find her and the case will go quiet until SY hears some more rumors of a ring of pedophiles stealing more children...then her name will surface again. Whoever did something to that child isn't likely to let her be found, and it's a big world out there

 

[haden]

Who has enough information yet to inform the Prime Minister that the McCanns categorically had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance? They really haven't cooperated with any aspect of impartial investigation yet-we'll see what they do during a more friendly one. I doubt that the Prime Minister would assist a miscarriage of justice, although well-connected people sometimes do get away with stuff.

I hope the time will show all in this case

 

[Jmoose]

with the cadaver dogs, discrepancies in deposition and kate mccann refusing to answer questions at first you think this is an ABDUCTION? people give these two wayyy too much credit just because it's hard to believe two educated, well to do folks would be this ghastly. well, all of the evidence points to madeleine dying in her home. there is absolutely no evidence of an intruder;;; if there were an intruder, there would have been a disruption on on the door (due to the nature of the lock) and there would have been marks on the window and/or on maddie's bed. the only marks on the window were from kate mccann, and the fingerprints showed that she would have been CLOSING the window, not opening it as she's said.

Unfortunately, there isn't anything to hang one's hat on-and there may never be. I am 53% in favor of IDI, 47% MDI. I doubt we'll know for sure, but I want proof before I indict her parents for murder. I know they acted badly as parents on vacation, but killing isn't a leap I am ready to make yet.

 

[Jmoose]

About the questions. Both gerry and Kate had answered many questions some the same. When they were made arguidos and the questions became increasingly aggressive and aimed at a confession her lawyer quite rightly pulled her out. Told her no comment till they found out what the f was going on

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That's your lawyer's job-but being uncooperative doesn't look good.

 

[Jmoose]

They both spent many hours answering questions before they were made arguidos. The pj leaked the news to the public before they were and when they arrived at the station there was crowds booing and jeering. They were exhausted highly vulnerable . The pj were going for a confession. Gerry answered everything but kates lawyer pulled her.

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This, unfortunately, is what makes her "look" like she is hiding something-I never really understood how it was that onlookers could say that her parents are responsible, but that it's really the mother who did something to her. I guess this is it. The police often have a theory before they start asking questions-it's smart to have a lawyer to keep you out of jail, even if people looking in from outside the investigation think it makes you look guilty-I would have one from the first awkward question to me, even while I worried about my daughter. How could I advocate for her from jail? Now, I am not saying that I believe the parents-only that this is the smartest thing they could do

 

[Pinkhammer]

Mark Fuhrman was on FOX the other night and he seems to think the parents are good for it.

All this brouhaha about a new investigation is just Kate and Gerry trying to burnish their image, which was very damaged by leaving three tiny tots alone and asleep in a strange place, unsupervised and unwatched, while they went out for wine and tapas.

Hope it was worth it, McCanns!

 

[Angeline]

For what it's worth, the fact that the McCann's may come across as cold, suspicious, narcissistic, whatever - does not mean that they are guilty. There seems to be spite towards them because they are wealthy. I don't know why that's even relevant.

There's no "rule book" on how to act when your child goes missing. Some parents come across as hysterical, some come across as cold and uncaring - perhaps they have shut down emotionally from the trauma. I don't judge them, because I don't know what it's like and I pray that I never will.

If the McCanns are guilty then SY have a strange way of going about the case. From the Kiesha Weippart case in Oz where the mother was guilty, the police interrogated her and kept her under surveillance. They bugged the house too. They certainly didn't waste time going on national TV with sketches and appeal for information. They did appeal for information very early in the case, until the mother became defensive in the interrogations.

Why waste resources trying to track these people down, if the real culprits are right in front of them. I doubt SY are that stupid.

And why would the McCanns put themselves through this again, when the hype had died down and they had a chance to get on with their lives. Do they enjoy this sort of attention? Do they long to be in jail?

 

[song22]

Well, I'm going to step into this highly polarized case and just add my newbie 2 cents. I'm sure it might be highly irritating for those who have been here a while. I read many of the early documents at the McCann files site. I watched Pierce Morgan. And I got caught up on recent developments. I am not one to play devil's advocate and I don't give much benefit of the doubt on strange behavior. I don't buy the argument that a person doesn't know how they would react in a situation like this--I do think there is a range of behavior and I tend to look for red flags and make judgments.

But I'm not feeling it with the McCanns. They seemed genuine in the Pierce Morgan interview to me. My hinky meter does not go off at all. It also makes sense to me that someone came in and abducted Madeleine.

So, as to a reasonable explanation for how that happened--I'll have to dig deeper and learn more. Maybe you will see my position change over time. But right now from my initial introduction to this case, I feel like I trust the McCanns. I don't know why they would call for a complete review of the whole case file if they were guilty. I would think they would do like I've seen in other cases, try to act like she wandered off or try to just get people to forget the whole case. Pushing for an inquiry seems to me genuine.

I agree with people who say that if the inquiry in the beginning was growing hostile, I can understand fighting back hard with any legal means to put a halt to it, to protect my other children first off. I agree that normally you would say, "Ok look hard at me, let's get this ruled out and move on", but I can imagine in some countries, especially countries with a recent non-democratic history, a foreigner might not be as trusting of local LE.

What is up with the forensic evidence? I think I was reading in a recent Guardian article that the DNA was not incriminating of the McCanns. I'll have to read more about the cadaver dogs and the rental car, though. Anyway, I have a lot to mull over!

Take it for what it's worth, a newcomer's first impressions. MOO.

 

[cobalt sky]

You don't count Cadaver as evidence that she died? Maybe not 100% evidence, but very convincing to Police Forces (the dogs were used by British LE)?

I do, I'm afraid.

I wish Eddie was wrong but there is no question as to what he smelt. To this day chills run up my spine when I watch the video.

There should not have been cadaver in the Renault.

If you accept there's a chance the dogs are correct, which common sense dictate we do, then you have to accept there was a cadaver in the Renault 24 days after Madeleine disappeared, also on cuddle cat.

The cadaver on cuddle cat disturbs me the most. It tells me the last time it touched Madeleine, she was already deceased.

:sick:

BBM. This is the part I have a hard time with. Cadaver hit in the apt, yes, it makes perfect sense. Cadaver hit in the Renault, a rental that wasn't in the McCann's possession until well after two weeks from Maddie's disappearance? Where was Maddie during that time? How did someone then retrieve her and get her into the car without being seen? How did they then dispose of her without being seen?

I am aware of the theories that she was kept refrigerated or frozen until being placed in the Renault and then disposed of elsewhere, but in order to believe that, it would be nearly impossible for the Mccanns to pull it off without A LOT of help. They would have had to have access to another apt/house/something with a fridge/freezer. This complicates the scenario greatly. I just have a hard time making this cadaver hit in the Renault work ullhair: IMO MOO

 

[song22]

This, unfortunately, is what makes her "look" like she is hiding something-I never really understood how it was that onlookers could say that her parents are responsible, but that it's really the mother who did something to her. I guess this is it. The police often have a theory before they start asking questions-it's smart to have a lawyer to keep you out of jail, even if people looking in from outside the investigation think it makes you look guilty-I would have one from the first awkward question to me, even while I worried about my daughter. How could I advocate for her from jail? Now, I am not saying that I believe the parents-only that this is the smartest thing they could do

This is one of the scariest things I could imagine as a mother to a missing child--Imagine if you knew you were innocent and you ended up in jail. the case would be over and no one would be looking for your child! Not to mention the horror of the other two children losing their sister and now their mother? I would fight very hard and lawyer up if I sensed anything like this possibly happening. JMO

 

[Angeline]

I'm surprised that in the early days they didn't focus more carefully on the sighting of the man carrying the child towards the beach. Why on earth would you carry a sleeping child to the beach at 10pm? Shouldn't that have stood out as suspicious?

 

[Morag]

BBM. This is the part I have a hard time with. Cadaver hit in the apt, yes, it makes perfect sense. Cadaver hit in the Renault, a rental that wasn't in the McCann's possession until well after two weeks from Maddie's disappearance? Where was Maddie during that time? How did someone then retrieve her and get her into the car without being seen? How did they then dispose of her without being seen?

I am aware of the theories that she was kept refrigerated or frozen until being placed in the Renault and then disposed of elsewhere, but in order to believe that, it would be nearly impossible for the Mccanns to pull it off without A LOT of help. They would have had to have access to another apt/house/something with a fridge/freezer. This complicates the scenario greatly. I just have a hard time making this cadaver hit in the Renault work ullhair: IMO MOO

Wasn't there a missing duffel bag at some point in this story?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes I recall something about a blue tennis bag but I don't know if it was ever considered valid.

As far as hiding and moving Madeleine - I agree it doesn't sound logical. Where did they hide her for all that time?

However, if you put aside that little wrinkle and assume that is exactly what they did, somehow, then the evidence fits perfectly.

I would suggest that the "new" timeline is definitive proof that there was no intruder.

The reason being, that if there was, Kate had to have seen him. She ran out screaming "they've taken her" at the exact same time she was seen being taken.

On top of everything else, this "coincidence" just defies logic. How did she know?????

:cow:

 

[Jmoose]

This is one of the scariest things I could imagine as a mother to a missing child--Imagine if you knew you were innocent and you ended up in jail. the case would be over and no one would be looking for your child! Not to mention the horror of the other two children losing their sister and now their mother? I would fight very hard and lawyer up if I sensed anything like this possibly happening. JMO

I believe I would hire a lawyer early on if this was me-Guilty or innocent.