Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[~n/t~]

From my research of the statements of independent witnesses, there is not one person who can verify that Gerry was in the Tapas Bar at 10pm.

Thought so. Wasn't a waiter interviewed but he couldn't confirm if he was there or not at that time? IIRC

 

[~n/t~]

The waiter. He claims the men would check on the children but that night Kate went to check.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/waiters-testimony.html

 

[Donjeta]

In the Lisa Irwin threads there was a lot of talk about cell phone pings at one time and the impression I got was that pinpointing the location on the basis of pings is not very exact. They could tell the general area where the Irwin phones pinged but it was a circle with several hundred yards in diameter. I think a quarter of a mile, maybe. (but I could be wrong, this is just going by memory) They were not able to narrow it down to a specific street address.

How far is the Smith sighting from the Tapas bar? I was under the impression that it's just a few minutes to walk. It might not be possible for the police to tell whether Gerry's phone or anyone else's phone was pinging on a certain street or somewhere nearby. The accuracy of the triangulation depends on how many towers service the area. It's near the beach I'm guessing there aren't any towers in the direction of the sea. The Tapas bar area and the Smith sighting area might be serviced by the same cell phone towers.

 

[haden]

you have to know that 'parents suppressed the e-fit' is still a claim by a paper, not a fact in this case!

it might be that they just failed to publicise it ... maybe due to the fact that elder Smith claimed it was Gerry and they knew it wasn't Gerry so they rubbished it..

 

[haden]

In the Lisa Irwin threads there was a lot of talk about cell phone pings at one time and the impression I got was that pinpointing the location on the basis of pings is not very exact. They could tell the general area where the Irwin phones pinged but it was a circle with several hundred yards in diameter. They were not able to narrow it down to a specific street address.

How far is the Smith sighting from the Tapas bar? I was under the impression that it's just a few minutes to walk. It might not be possible for the police to tell whether Gerry's phone or anyone else's phone was pinging on a certain street or somewhere nearby. The accuracy of the triangulation depends on how many towers service the area. It's near the beach I'm guessing there aren't any towers in the direction of the sea. The Tapas bar area and the Smith sighting area might be serviced by the same cell phone towers.

They are definitely able to find the phones nearest to the Smiths phones.
I know this from another case where the killer was caught this way.

If OC ( apartment 5a) is catching one tower and Smiths sighting is catching another tower, which due to the distance is possible they are also able to find out the phone that was in both locations and also the moment the phone is 'changing' the towers

 

[moshimoshi]

you have to know that 'parents suppressed the e-fit' is still a claim by a paper, not a fact in this case!

it might be that they just failed to publicise it ... maybe due to the fact that elder Smith claimed it was Gerry and they knew it wasn't Gerry so they rubbished it..

It seems they suppressed the whole report, a report they had commissioned, because it was unflattering.

It is hard to argue that the report was also rubbish. The police, having finally heard about it, are now acting on it. They obviously find it interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-is-from-five-year-old-suppressed-report.html

 

[Donjeta]

We don't know that the abductor had a cell phone with him.

 

[haden]

It seems they suppressed the whole report, a report they had commissioned, because it was unflattering.

It is hard to argue that the report was also rubbish. The police, having finally heard about it, are now acting on it. They obviously find it interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-is-from-five-year-old-suppressed-report.html

Police finally heard about it?

They are reports that the report WAS passed to both PJ and SY but you have to know that at that time PJ could not act upon anything because their investigation was closed and they DID not act upon any report.

SY same time had no power to act upon anything in Portugal.

It was only The McCanns at that time who run their own investigation.

There was no active investigation.

The investigation is active now..

 

[Donjeta]

you have to know that 'parents suppressed the e-fit' is still a claim by a paper, not a fact in this case!

it might be that they just failed to publicise it ... maybe due to the fact that elder Smith claimed it was Gerry and they knew it wasn't Gerry so they rubbished it..

That makes no sense to me. If someone claims they saw a person carrying a child and thinks it may have been me, and I know it wasn't me, the fact remains that they saw someone carrying a child, and I'm gonna want to know WHO it was, not just shrug and say, yeah, wasn't me, so there.

Police finally heard about it?

They are reports that the report WAS passed to both PJ and SY but you have to know that at that time PJ could not act upon anything because their investigation was closed and they DID not act upon any report.

SY same time had no power to act upon anything in Portugal.

It was only The McCanns at that time who run their own investigation.

There was no active investigation.

The investigation is active now..

So, since the Fund McCanns were the only ones running an active investigation at the time it made perfect sense for them to ignore a possible important lead... not.

Very sad if this was the abductor and Madeleine and it was just ignored for years, by everybody.

 

[haden]

We don't know that the abductor had a cell phone with him.

That might be true but they also might find other people who had their phones on.. and were in the area..

Also if it was Gerry we know he had his phone on.. if he switched his phone off it would have been known.

So, it is maybe not possible to find the abductor if he did not have the phone but it is possible to exclude Gerry.

Someone might say the phone itself doesn't place Gerry here and there but if Gerry at that time was making or receiving calls it can be find out from people he talked to whether this was him or not.

 

[Veidt]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's opinions here. I just don't quite know if I buy into the theory about a huge government cover-up. I'm aware that if there was a conspiracy in place it wouldn't make its way to MSM easily but a lot of the links provided seem to be from very biased sources that are partisan to conspiracy theories in general. I also take 'sources said' with a grain of salt, I read celebrity gossip all the time and there's always a source saying something but a lot of the time it eventually turns out to be fake while other times it's accurate. So it helps to be careful with that IMO.

While I can believe a scenario where the McCanns or some of their friends had a hand in killing and maybe sexually abusing Maddie, I don't think the justification needs to be quite as complex as a government cover up. If those things were taken place then maybe they were just good at hiding it and acting like any evidence was just circumstantial and not definite proof of anything. Look at the JonBenet case, after all these years and people are still discussing theories! I don't doubt that even when people are covering up for abusing their own children that they can be very good at faking innocence.

IMO the reason why the case has gotten so much attention over the years is really quite simple. The McCanns were a successful white family who were on vacation in Portugal in a place that attracts a similar demographic, middle-upper class tourists. Her daughter who has features that by society's standards are considered 'cute' disappeared during what was supposed to be a relaxing vacation for the whole family. Of course that many people are going to empathize with that, even if they're not part of the same demo then at least something like 'isn't it a shame, such a precious little girl, and they seemed like such a great family with everything going well for them'. This isn't the same as a child disappearing from a home in a low-income neighborhood. People like to distance themselves from that. In the case of a family like the McCanns is more a feeling of how sad it is that it could really happen to anyone and could have happened to them too and that tragedy strikes even when your life seems great otherwise. There is also the added fact that they were abroad. This means the case got attention from MSM in two different countries, interest from people living in both of them and from expats. Then the rest of the European press also chimed in. The case got a lot of publicity. While it could have died down some (and IMO it sort of did, depending on the papers you're buying there's a lot less front-page news about Maddie unless it's something major) the McCanns have been keeping it alive, sometimes on purpose by publicly asking for donations and help, and sometimes accidentally through all the lawsuits and things.

I'm not saying that the McCanns did it, just that in this scenario I don't think a wide conspiracy needs to be involved for cover-ups and publicity to happen. I also don't think it's impossible that a conspiracy may exist because who knows, but it doesn't seem very likely to me. Sometimes the simplest explanation really is best.

:twocents:

 

[goldengirl57]

I know this is a bit off beam but its very interesting.....

http://fakedabduction.com/2010/06/madeleine-finders-sudden-death-and-burial-in-skipton/

 

[gord]

According to gord up thread parents and two kids

sorry I was meaning adults who gave statements - which was 4

the 5 other kids were minors under age of 12 -

 

[gord]

With all the lies do we really know who was where and when? Seriously. Furthermore who are we supposed to believe? The original reenactment had them checking on the kids every 10 minutes or so. Yes perhaps covering up for their negligence of leaving the children alone but was Gerry really at the Tapas at 10? Who are these witnesses you speak of that can definitely say he was there at that time?

statement from waiter who saw Gerry return from visit - which is roughly about 9.30 ish - he then say shortly after all leave - about 10ish after the discovery

I am sure the PJ would have shown photos and made sure who was who . so either in that period Gerry then left the table again - this would mean all tapas are in it as this would have been a tad suspicious bearing in mind what happened - the waiter didn't notice either - to go where ?? back to the flat to pick up a dead Maddie and run off to the beach ?? and be spotted by the Smiths at 10,00 - Gerry was also spotted runnin g around the pool area just after 10.00 shouting for maddy

I just cant see when he was supposed to have hidden a dead body in this tiny window of 1/2 an hour tops - and not being seen by anyone leaving the table again

JOAQUIM JOSE MOREIRA BATISTA (residing at Rua Ilha Terceira, no. 15, Lagos, Telephone No 91 277 ####) - table employee [waiter].
- Of the group of 8/9 British citizens who dined at the restaurant last night, as usual, of which the parents of missing were part (he didn't know them) he noticed that two individuals left the table, of the male gender.
- The first to leave was about 40/45 years old (tall, skinny, white complexion, with large [a full head of] hair of color gray) and the period of his absence was about 15 minutes, being that they had to [re-]heat his food, which had cooled;
- The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes, and that shortly after he returned, all left the table, except for an elderly person, who told him that a child had disappeared, the daughter of a member of the group, due to which he thought that the second person to leave could have been the father of the child;
- Of the times in which this group had dined in that bar it is [was] often [for] someone from the group to go to check at the apartments the state of the children (their offspring) who were sleeping there.
- He did not see any person with blonde "rastas", while he was working (16h00 and 00.00). ----------

 

[Donjeta]

Who had blonde rastas?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Who had blonde rastas?

?? Good question


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Hexe]

That might be true but they also might find other people who had their phones on.. and were in the area..

Also if it was Gerry we know he had his phone on.. if he switched his phone off it would have been known.

So, it is maybe not possible to find the abductor if he did not have the phone but it is possible to exclude Gerry.

Someone might say the phone itself doesn't place Gerry here and there but if Gerry at that time was making or receiving calls it can be find out from people he talked to whether this was him or not.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 (the critical day) at 8.23 and 8.24 Kate McCanns mobile activated the antenna to call xxxx7624. There is nothing in file to indicate the owner of this mobile but it does not appear to be any of the McCann family or friends.

At 12.24 Gerald McCann received a call from a UK Mobile xxxx1746. Again there is no clue in the file to the subscribers name. At 12.31 Kate McCann received a call (or SMS) from her mothers mobile and responded an hour later.

Neither of the McCanns appears to have had any further activity on their telephones until after Madeleine was reported missing when Gerald McCann called his wife four times between 23.14 and 23.52. At 23.40 he called his sister ' Trish Cameron and at 23.52 -Janet Kennedy.


He did not make any calls at around 10 pm that day. And both McCanns stated, that usually during the dinner their phones were off, left in the apartment. So why assume Gerry's phone had to be on?

 

[gord]

Who had blonde rastas?

Jeremy Wilkins has said in his statement he saw a man with Blonde Rasta type hair when he was wandering round the resort trying to get his child to sleep

this is what they were alluding to

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Who had blonde rastas?

?? Good question


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I think it comes from the statement below.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

 

[Veidt]

Police can, through the phone records, find where Gerry was at 9.55. And if he was near them. And who was near them.

I'm not sure if that's quite possible. I remember a discussion in the Dylan Redwine threads and doing some research on my own about it. From what I understand, it boils down to this:

- LE can ask phone carriers for logs for activity coming from your phone number. This means things like calls.

- If your phone is an older phone (as most people's phones would have been in 2007, IMO) then calculating the general area might be possible through cell phone 'pings'. To put it simply, your phone is always searching for cell sites nearby. It checks for which one has the strongest signal and connects with it. Once it connects it's still sending and receiving a signal because it's a two-way street. By checking which sites got pinged by a phone and when, it might be possible to calculate the general area a phone was in.

- I still haven't figured out whether your phone can still 'ping' cell sites if it's switched off. I've seen different information on this, from no, to it being able to do so if it's switched off as long as there's some battery in it. I suspect it might depend on the model.

- A smartphone is a bit more straightforward because most smartphones have a GPS device installed. How easily once again depends on the brand and type of phone but smartphones in general seem easier to locate.

What does this all mean? This means that it might be possible to discover the general area, maybe at best something more specific, but it won't necessarily tell us who he was with. Something like they were all sitting around a table in the Tapas might be harder to determine.

If he was involved with some kind of pedophile ring and was communicating with someone at the time... it seems like it would make more sense for him to be using a disposable phone and SIM card for communication about those activities, from what I've read that's far more common in criminal circles because it's easier to toss out the evidence.

:twocents: