Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

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I followed the Joannas case same as Madeleine, the news were all on a facebook page forum which was later removed but yes, the police was looking for a car that passed a bridge..
It was said at the time that luckily for the police passing the bridge would catch another mobile phone tower and they were looking for people whose mobile phone numbers would kind of 'change towers' at that time.. and this is how they got Tabak's number.

It seems you are wrong.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/TABAK-KEPT-SOCK-TROPHY/story-13712269-detail/story.html

Police first suspected Tabak was involved within ten days of Miss Yeates' body being found. It was DNA which led them to that conclusion.

Officers were sent to Holland on New Year's Eve to interview Tabak, who – being her neighbour – was merely helping police with their inquiries at that stage.

It was on that day he volunteered to give police a DNA sample.

Mr Jones said: "A forensic examination of DNA found on Miss Yeates' body revealed a link to the sample Tabak had given in the Netherlands on New Year's Eve – but further painstaking work was required."

It was then that police began to check CCTV images scouring footage for Tabak's movements on that freezing cold evening. They also examined his mobile phone records.


Re Croatian case, I was there on holiday in the first days of the investigation, it was only that on the TV, massive search, similar to Madeleine if not even bigger, they even drained a lake at that time to find Antonia.
It was announced on the TV news that the police has a suspect, actually have his mobile number as his number 'spoke to different towers' at the same time as Antonia's phone. Since I am interested in this subject, I remember it very well.

That page says something else:
http://www.thebalkansdaily.com/murderer-of-a-minor-sentenced/

The police examined CCTV recordings along the motorway where she disappeared while hitchhiking towards the Croatian port of Split and talked to bystanders who saw Miss Bilic entering a truck. The investigation subsequently led to Mr. Paravinja who was employed as a driver at the time.

I haven't found a single mention about Paravinja being nailed because of pings. I read, though, that the family of the Antonia conducted their own investigation and employed a private company, that checked Paravinja's phone records, AFTER he became a main suspect. After the LE found Antonia's blood and hair in his truck.
 
It seems you are wrong.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/TABAK-KEPT-SOCK-TROPHY/story-13712269-detail/story.html

Police first suspected Tabak was involved within ten days of Miss Yeates' body being found. It was DNA which led them to that conclusion.

Officers were sent to Holland on New Year's Eve to interview Tabak, who – being her neighbour – was merely helping police with their inquiries at that stage.

It was on that day he volunteered to give police a DNA sample.

Mr Jones said: "A forensic examination of DNA found on Miss Yeates' body revealed a link to the sample Tabak had given in the Netherlands on New Year's Eve – but further painstaking work was required."

It was then that police began to check CCTV images scouring footage for Tabak's movements on that freezing cold evening. They also examined his mobile phone records.




That page says something else:
http://www.thebalkansdaily.com/murderer-of-a-minor-sentenced/

The police examined CCTV recordings along the motorway where she disappeared while hitchhiking towards the Croatian port of Split and talked to bystanders who saw Miss Bilic entering a truck. The investigation subsequently led to Mr. Paravinja who was employed as a driver at the time.

I haven't found a single mention about Paravinja being nailed because of pings. I read, though, that the family of the Antonia conducted their own investigation and employed a private company, that checked Paravinja's phone records, AFTER he became a main suspect. After the LE found Antonia's blood and hair in his truck.


Well, I am not going to back down on these two cases, I know them inside out..
I know very well that Tabaks phone changed tower on the bridge.. BTW his DNA test was inconclusive.. and Re Case Antonia I know very well that Antonias phone matched the phone of her killer, this was among the DNA results a proof for his charges.
 
Well, I am not going to back down on these two cases, I know them inside out..
I know very well that Tabaks phone changed tower on the bridge.. BTW his DNA test was inconclusive.. and Re Case Antonia I know very well that Antonias phone matched the phone of her killer, this was among the DNA results a proof for his charges.

"I know" is not a proof for me. And I trust the MSM more than someones memory. Sorry.
 
This case is about to go cosmic, I can taste it. The McCann's are about to walk into something rather special.
 
All these seven men were discounted years ago by the PJ as innocent men going about their business. The eighth one is the Smith sighting which they withheld for five years!

Is there a link, or links, that show these seven were discounted? I don't believe I've ever seen where they were all located, let alone cleared.
 
"I know" is not a proof for me. And I trust the MSM more than someones memory. Sorry.

Sorry,, I am not going to spend my night looking for links for these facts.

I explained the principle of phone data researching, and why this would be helpful because it provides facts, not theories..

There is not need for resources or staff as you thought, only one computer forensic specialist is enough.

Also the laws re the phone data is not the same in Europe and US, I've seen on the wikipedia of mobile phone investigation that in US this is a bit of a tough job to get from the judges.. while in Europe this is a standard procedure, same as CCTV images.
 
Also the laws re the phone data is not the same in Europe and US, I've seen on the wikipedia of mobile phone investigation that in US this is a bit of a tough job to get from the judges.. while in Europe this is a standard procedure, same as CCTV images.

I am from Europe and I know that it is not a standard procedure and it is not any easier than in US.
 
I am from Europe and I know that it is not a standard procedure and it is not any easier than in US.

Well, the standards have been developed

Digital forensics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and also
Mobile device forensics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The European Union requires its member countries to retain certain telecommunications data for use in investigations. This includes data on calls made and retrieved. The location of a mobile phone can be determined and this geographical data must also be retained. In the United States, however, no such requirement exists, and no standards govern how long carriers should retain data or even what they must retain.

also:
Mobile phone tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Privacy[edit]

Locating or positioning touches upon delicate privacy issues, since it enables someone to check where a person is without the person's consent. Strict ethics and security measures are strongly recommended for services that employ positioning, and the user must give an informed, explicit consent to a service provider before the service provider can compute positioning data from the user's mobile phone.
In Europe, where most countries have a constitutional guarantee on the secrecy of correspondence, location data obtained from mobile phone networks is usually given the same protection as the communication itself. The United States, however, has no explicit constitutional guarantee on the privacy of telecommunications, so use of location data is limited by law.
Officially, the authorities (like the police) can obtain permission to position phones in emergency cases where people (including criminals) are missing. The U.S. Justice Department has argued that current laws allow them to track suspects without having probable cause to suspect a law is being violated.[11] In some instances, law enforcement may even access a mobile phone's internal microphone to eavesdrop on local conversations while the phone is switched off.[12]
 
Interesting suspicious persons, possibly involved

Cousins Charles O'Neill, 50, and William Lauchlan, 36, were prowling Spanish tourist resorts luring children on to their converted bus with a puppy around the time Madeleine vanished in May 2007, it was claimed. They were first quizzed over the youngster in 2011 when police interviewed them in jail in Scotland.

The gay lovers resemble recently-issued e-fits of two men wanted for questioning over the case. Police are also talking to a prison visitor who is not a suspect but may know details of the pair's whereabouts at the time Madeleine vanished.<O:p></O:p>

A woman, now 50, who knew the pair in Albir, Spain, said they lived in a single-decker bus. She said: "They would invite people on to drink wine. There were curtains at the back so no one could see in. They had a puppy too, a boxer. You realise how perfect a puppy like that would have been as bait." The men had just finished jail terms for indecent assaults against boys. Later, in 2010, they were jailed for murdering Allison McGarrigle, 39, in Largs, Ayrshire&#8230; Charles O'Neill is said to have been in Portugal when Maddie, three, was snatched in 2007. Two months earlier he was in Gran Canaria, in Spain's Canary Islands, when Jeremy Vargus, seven, vanished. <O:p></O:p>
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id333.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2468557/Good-Samaritan-questioned-Maddie-police-pair-paedophiles-let-live-home-released-prison.html <O:p></O:p>
 
A charity worker witness:

Denise Beryl Ashton was interviewed, who on 3rd May reported that two men were collecting money for an orphanage, which did not seem to be true, giving the following description of them: slim complexion, about 180 cm in height, short brown straight hair. He did not have a beard, moustache, earrings or piercings, but was wearing large brown framed glasses. The second individual, who did not speak, was male, Caucasian, aged 40, a bit younger than the first, slim build, she cannot specify his height, short blond hair with dark streaks, straight and brushed forwards.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
 
Blood on towel may be from Madeleine
Sunday Express
2 December 2007

THE hunt for Madeleine McCann was last night centred on a disused barn near Praia da Luz, where police found a towel possibly stained with the four year-old's blood.

Fibres found on the towel allegedly match fibres from the hire car rented by Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

Portuguese detectives discussed the breakthrough when they met police and a Crown Prosecution Service official last week in Leicester.

Based on fresh information from a mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort.

They came across a towel, with an Aztec design, by a disused barn in a remote area near Praia da Luz.

Portuguese sources say forensic scientists used a substance called luminol to look for blood deposits and found three sites on the edges of the towel.
From the sites they tested the blood deposits to see if there was a match with Madeleine McCann's DNA.

Although the samples were not good quality the scientists were able to do what is called low copy analysis which showed there was "moderate" support to suggest the deposits matched Madeleine's blood.

The results were not conclusive and are not regarded as being strong enough to be presented as evidence in any court case.

But close analysis of the towel revealed fibres which were not made of the towel material.

The fibre fragments were microscopically examined against fibres found in the boot of the Renault Scenic car hired by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie vanished.

Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.

One possibility being considered by the Portuguese detectives was that the towel had at some point been in the boot of the Renault Scenic car, which would explain how fibres had got on it.

Meanwhile, a close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann who was holidaying with them when Madeleine vanished will be questioned by Portuguese police this week over a "mystery' phone call.

Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, has come under investigation after a team of telephone surveillance officers highlighted a mobile call made to the missing four-year-old's father more than a month after she disappeared.

Portuguese detectives are now working on the theory that a call made between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O'Brien is the missing link that could help them find Madeleine's body.

Investigators are focussing their inquiry on the exact whereabouts of Dr O'Brien when the call was made on June 10.

Gerry McCann said the call was made within four kilometres of the Mark Warner resort.

But technicians have now dismissed his claim after examining data records taken from specified areas near to where the child went missing.

It is understood key words aroused police suspicions.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic15252.html
 
December, 2007

Investigators are concentrating on the exact whereabouts of Dr O'Brien when the call was made. It is understood Gerry McCann told detectives the call was made within a 4km radius of Praia da Luz but technicians working on the mobile phone network have dismissed this after examining records. It is believed the call took place 28km from Praia da Luz.

It also emerged that each member of the Tapas Nine were placed under surveillance after British communications experts arrived in the resort at the end of May. Mobile phone records, which leave a trail even when switched off, are believed to have been checked against statements made by guests and staff at the Ocean Club complex.

The results of these tests are believed to have been handed to the Portuguese prosecutors last week.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html

They also reveal that sniffer dogs taken to a disused barn 30 miles from Praia da Luz have shown strong interest in two sites. One is what appears to be a 14ft mineshaft opening to an underground cavity, and the other is where earth has been disturbed, possibly covering a shallow grave.

It is reported that detectives have asked for specialist imaging equipment to be brought in and are planning to excavate the shaft.
 
There is further press speculation about the 'Exeter connection', based around the fact that, just prior to May 3rd, Robert Murat spent 10 days at his sister's home in Exeter. Her house is less than a mile from the house where Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien live. Tanner and O'Brien are neighbours of James and Charlotte Gorrod, who were also in Praia da Luz, at the same time as the Tapas Nine.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html
 
December 2007

Kate and Gerry will find out within 48 hours if the British Government will let them face a new grilling over their daughter’s disappearance.

The prosecutor in charge of the case was last night set to send a letter asking for formal permission to re-interview them and their holiday dinner pals - the so-called Tapas Seven - to the Home Office. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, 44, will then decide whether or not to allow the further questioning to take place.

Detectives believe the secret to Madeleine’s fate lies within the group and are relying on the new interviews to crack the case. They hope the Home Secretary will immediately give the go ahead to the fresh round of interrogations.

The lawyer said he believed it was "not possible" for Algarve-based prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses to request additional time to gather evidence. "I think there is no legal way to go around the situation and say we need more time," he said.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html

But police in Portugal have long been suspicious about British Government involvement in the investigation and fear further political interference.
 
December, 2007

It is revealed that the McCanns and other members of the tapas group have met for the first time since May 3rd. This was actually reported as an 'exclusive' in November, by Spanish TV station Antena3 but has only just been picked up by the British press.

It is said the 'Tapas Nine' had a highly emotional and "deeply sad" reunion at a hotel near Kate and Gerry's home in Rothley, Leicestershire. It is believed to have taken place on Saturday 17 November, the week after news broke that two members of the tapas group wanted to change their statements.

A source close to the McCanns said the meeting was kept secret because of the huge interest it would have generated. "It was a show of solidarity under police claims that one or two had wanted to change their stories," said a source.

The McCanns are said to have used the reunion to, in part at least, "talk tactics" in the search for Madeleine.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html
 
Thank you. All of this is familiar to me :)
Snipped.

Snipped by me. I think other users have replied enough about why I don't think this would be feasible: too many pings, only vague data. Also:

a) Even a conservative estimate of 1,000 people in town and 500 tourists would mean a lot of phones pinging any towers in the area, especially since many people have more than one phone. You'd have a mess of information with so many phones from so many different carriers.

b) As I said in my previous post, someone who was doing something shady and using their phone for those purposes would likely be using a prepaid card and a disposable phone IMO. If you go with the theories that a whole pedophile ring was involved then it makes even more sense.

c) Even if GM didn't do that, he could easily have left his phone back at the resort (I imagine that if he was sneaking around he wouldn't have wanted to risk a phone alerting others to his presence, plus if the McCanns did it IMO they would have thought of that when covering their tracks).

d) Signal strength doesn't necessarily mean proximity as far as I know. This is why you can get such a strong signal farther away from a tower but a weak one inside buildings closer to it. It's also something that can depend on the phone. I remember that around those years, sometimes my phone would have a different signal strength than the phones of friends who were right next to me and had the same carrier, sometimes even the same phone model. I'm sure that if the PJ detected such a thing then there would be a million possible 'explanations'.

e) If something shady was found out then once again I'm sure people would be able to come up with a million other explanations and excuses.

The Smith sighting, as far as I'm aware, wasn't even taken as such as serious possibility and people still have doubts about it - given that it's based on a '60%-80%' certainty that it could have been GM because they walked similarly.

I'm not saying that means the McCanns didn't do it. If they did, they could easily have also had other possible time frames to dispose of the body, not only the specific time when the Smiths may or may not have seen GM. The Smith sighting turning out to be wrong still wouldn't prove or disprove anything either way, it would just place GM somewhere else at the time of the sighting. That's it. It wouldn't prove that he was innocent because other times could have been found to dispose of the body, it wouldn't prove he was guilty because him being somewhere else could just mean... exactly that, that he wasn't out and about when Smith saw him.

Going through the time and trouble of sifting through long strings of data that raise many privacy issues to obtain when there's only a chance out of many that it may do something and that something may not be enough evidence to fully clear or incriminate anyone... that hardly sounds incompetent to me.

I'm also very amused by the fact that you think smart phones don't exist in Portugal because it's a 'poorer country'. Lots of people there nowadays have smart phones, I'd say it's pretty much the same as other European countries. In 2007 I think they were simply less common worldwide because they were far more expensive and unless your job required it, it wasn't as necessary to get one as it is today when everyone has one - from the businessman checking his e-mail on his way to work to the teenage girl instagramming her pizza. Nowadays you can get a basic smartphone for under $200 and they're very easy to use. Not so at the time. The first iPhone was released in the United States in mid-2007. The first Android phone if I recall correctly was released later than that. They were just not as common as they are today, in 'rich' and 'poor' countries. Not to mention, the people you wanted to check up on (Smith and GM) aren't even Portuguese - and I assume they had no phones with GPS capabilities or that would have come up earlier. :floorlaugh:

EDIT: According to an article posted by Estelle, the Tapas 9 and their phones were placed under surveillance and the phone records were checked. It also seems like pings were indeed used to determine the location of calls. While the former was done by British experts, apparently, why don't you blame a vast Portuguese conspiracy with the PJ and mobile carriers all involved?
 
December, 2007

It is reported that police are probing the secret summit between the McCanns and their 'tapas group' friends at a hotel near their home.

The McCanns described the meeting as "highly emotional". But police are reported to be probing whether the group had used it as a chance to get their stories straight. If they suspect a conspiracy to obstruct justice, the group of friends could each face up to two years in jail.

Under English law such a meeting between the McCanns, who are both suspects, and their key witness friends would be banned during a criminal investigation.

The details of last month's meeting emerged as the prosecutor sent a letter to the Home Office asking for permission to re-interview the McCanns and their friends.

The McCanns will be particularly disappointed at reports that Jose Manuel Pacheco, the Roman Catholic priest who befriended them, has ordered every trace of the Madeleine appeal removed from his church of Our Lady of the Light.

The tiny white-washed building became a focal point of the Find Madeleine campaign, and was later searched by police looking for the body. But Friends of Fr Pacheco said he could no longer bear to discuss the case.

"Even when his friends broach the subject he immediately changes it," said one. He says it is an extremely unpleasant situation and the McCann family only ever brought him problems. He even told one friend they ruined his life. There are two completely different Pachecos, the one before the McCanns and this shell of a man after the McCanns. He is a nervous wreck."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html
 
December,2007

Mrs Murat said the Metodo 3 agency had hired detectives to follow her for a week. "Metodo were getting people to change their statements; following everybody everywhere. They were certainly following me."

It is also claimed today that British diplomats were ordered to "avoid offering support" to Robert Murat.

The Foreign Office sent a memo to staff with the instruction three days after the 34-year-old was named a formal suspect in the case, it was said. The treatment expat Murat received contrasts starkly with the support Gerry and Kate McCann were offered by the British authorities, Spanish newspaper El Mundo reported.

Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete said: "He feels he has been abandoned by his own government. This extremely serious order confirms the lack of support which the family has felt since the beginning."

El Mundo claims a Foreign Office document, dated May 17, justified the order because of "the specific nature of the case" and because British diplomats "were already helping Madeleine McCann's parents."

The paper reported: "An internal document, sent by the Foreign Office of the United Kingdom, orders British diplomats 'to avoid offering support' to Robert Murat, one of the suspects in the Maddie case, unless charges are presented against him."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html
 
If you mean for storing her clothes then I would imagine that the children's clothes would mainly be where the parent's had theirs stored.

I read that the intruder could have hid in several places, and could have been hiding in Maddys wardrobe in her bedroom at the time GM went to check on her.

Wardrobe Maddy's room
Wardrobe Parents
Bathroom

But cannot for the life of me see where there would be one unless its right by the door as you go in on the right...
 
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