Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #10

[Officer Dibble]

It was in this pic someone upthread said they thought the could see a child. Look next to the fitness ball on the floor, the faint swirly lines could appear to show shape of child sitting with legs out straight and crossed at the ankles

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/56874674-6462-41cc-8f80-7550546c0e0b-jpeg.254680/

My eyesight is usually terrible for these things but I can see it too. So it must be obvious.

 

[photographer4]

I do believe that was the fosterchild /teenage girl) ‘’the one who run away and he found her with Gypsy’s’ /Roma’s’’ -ahum

Here it goes:
Residents also claimed Brueckner led a search party to find a teenage girl who ran away from the foster home in the summer of 2007, and found her in a seaside town nearby.

Although the timeline is unclear, it has been said the young girl was pregnant by the time she returned and left the area for good soon after.
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'terrified' villagers

I wonder who she was and what became of her / her child? Whoever she was, victim of CB or not, sounds as though she had a difficult life.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I'm getting really confused . Pamela Fenn hears crying - from downstairs she thinks - on the 1st. She thinks a child not a baby so not the twins

Rachel Oldfield in the flat next door was actually in on the 2nd. Says you can hear other flat easily. Didn't hear MM and S crying but might have been asleep. Her child is younger than the twins - or is it?

MM asks KM on the 3rd why she hadn't come when her and Sean were crying. Are we sure she meant the 2nd? Unlikely to be clear given her age and if she'd slept on 2nd

KM says they've taken her not someone has taken her. Which is odd I think. Which makes me wonder if MM had reported crying because she thought there was someone there. Which most parents would interpret as just a bad dream. Just opinion really.

Could CBs first attempt have been on the 1st?

Very good points IMO

 

[photographer4]

I'm stuck on the fact that the article I posted upthread indicated the burglars found a video recorder with a CASSETTE in it. So I did some basic googling... it seems that video recording didn't really go digital until around the year 2006 (on video cameras). Prior to that it was cassette tapes or dvd. So if he recorded it originally onto cassette, then he HAD to have made a copy and transferred it to digital format to be able to show this to his friend at the bar in 2017. Ten or eleven years AFTER the rape happened, he still had it in digital format to be able to show someone??

 

[Newthoughts]

Fall Maddie: Verdächtiger beginn Missbrauch an 72-Jähriger - Blick

According to this article, which I read with the help of a translator built into my browser, it was two acquaintances who burgled CB's place and discovered a video camera, and a "video cassette" which is reported to have held "disturbing recordings". This article also notes that CB took off his mask after the attack (of the elderly American woman) as he sat on the end of her bed. The robbers found the blackened goggles worn by the victim in CB's bedroom. According to this article, there was a teenage victim who had been tied to a post and attacked as well.

From this article, it sounds like there was more than one attack recorded on the video cassette. The cassette was left inside a camper van which was scrapped. I suspect it was BP who scrapped it for him (like others here have suggested). Its a shame police didn't find that video. But CB also somehow still had a copy of the video of the attack against the American woman. We know this b/c he is said to have shown it to someone in a bar on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance. I recall reading that CB's friend MT (the guy he was caught stealing diesel with, and who had lived with him for awhile).... had told the burglars he didn't want to see the video of the elderly woman being raped. MT is now convinced that CB is guilty. I wonder if the plea for information was from police to anyone else who the burglars may have shown that video tape to? If they were willing to show MT, they were probably also willing to show other associates as well.

I also wonder who the teenage victim was? I hope she will come forward to talk to LE and report what happened to her if she hasn't already. I can only image the reasons why a victim wouldn't have wanted to come forward then or now.

IMO only - would anyone really destroy those video cassettes?

You've either got something that horrifies you - in which case I'm sure you'd find some way of getting it to the police anonymously.

Or you've got prime blackmail material against CB if, for example, you didn't want to pay for your drugs or whatever

Or you've got insurance should CB ever turn on you or stuff to use in a plea bargain if necessary.

 

[Dlk79]

Fall Maddie: Verdächtiger beginn Missbrauch an 72-Jähriger - Blick

According to this article, which I read with the help of a translator built into my browser, it was two acquaintances who burgled CB's place and discovered a video camera, and a "video cassette" which is reported to have held "disturbing recordings". This article also notes that CB took off his mask after the attack (of the elderly American woman) as he sat on the end of her bed. The robbers found the blackened goggles worn by the victim in CB's bedroom. According to this article, there was a teenage victim who had been tied to a post and attacked as well.

From this article, it sounds like there was more than one attack recorded on the video cassette. The cassette was left inside a camper van which was scrapped. I suspect it was BP who scrapped it for him (like others here have suggested). Its a shame police didn't find that video. But CB also somehow still had a copy of the video of the attack against the American woman. We know this b/c he is said to have shown it to someone in a bar on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance. I recall reading that CB's friend MT (the guy he was caught stealing diesel with, and who had lived with him for awhile).... had told the burglars he didn't want to see the video of the elderly woman being raped. MT is now convinced that CB is guilty. I wonder if the plea for information was from police to anyone else who the burglars may have shown that video tape to? If they were willing to show MT, they were probably also willing to show other associates as well.

I also wonder who the teenage victim was? I hope she will come forward to talk to LE and report what happened to her if she hasn't already. I can only image the reasons why a victim wouldn't have wanted to come forward then or now.

See I don't think the older woman he was seen raping by the friends on video was the same person as the 72yr old american. I read in a few media sources shortly after MT's inteview where it was explicitly said it was not the 72yr old victim in this found video but can't seem to find those links now. Can anyone else remember this?

I think the story has been muddled and some sources are thinking it was the 72yr old the friends saw. This article seems to confirm it was different victims to the american lady -

The German man attacked the American woman in her home in Praia da Luz, Portugal in September 2005, about a year-and-a-half before Madeleine vanished in the same resort, the Braunschweiger Zeitung newspaper reported.

He was caught after a friend discovered video of separate attacks on an older woman and a young woman, who were both tied up and raped, and DNA evidence linked him to the rape of the 72-year-old.

The videos were inside the friend's motorhome when it was destroyed for scrap years ago, and he later went to the police with the claims, it was reported.

One video allegedly showed an "older" woman, who sounded like she was saying "help" in Italian, being whipped and raped by a masked man while she was tied up and her eyes were covered, according to the friend.

The video showed the suspect removing his mask and showing his face, according to the report.

The other video allegedly showed a younger woman, speaking German, tied naked to a wooden beam inside a house as she begged to be freed. The suspect was sat on a sofa, the friend told police, adding that he recognised the man and the interior of the house.

German paedophile suspected of murdering Madeleine McCann is named

To me, that sounds like a different "older" victim who was Italian, not American, although the MO was very similar in both rapes (possibly why the story is getting muddled up). The second rape of the young german woman sounds like it may have taken place in the house with the beam by the sofa. May be why they've released the photo in the hope she recognises the scene and comes forward.

 

[photographer4]

I do believe that was the fosterchild /teenage girl) ‘’the one who run away and he found her with Gypsy’s’ /Roma’s’’ -ahum

Here it goes:
Residents also claimed Brueckner led a search party to find a teenage girl who ran away from the foster home in the summer of 2007, and found her in a seaside town nearby.

Although the timeline is unclear, it has been said the young girl was pregnant by the time she returned and left the area for good soon after.
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'terrified' villagers

Wonder if they did any forensics on that post? Even years later, there might be some DNA from the victim on that post, IF that was the post in question. Of course, they'd only match it if she had DNA in their system (eg: she was a criminal), or POSSIBLY if they used ancestry dna to link to her family members (if anyone has done ancestry DNA). Would they do that to find a victim though? Doubtful.

 

[photographer4]

IMO only - would anyone really destroy those video cassettes?

You've either got something that horrifies you - in which case I'm sure you'd find some way of getting it to the police anonymously.

Or you've got prime blackmail material against CB if, for example, you didn't want to pay for your drugs or whatever

Or you've got insurance should CB ever turn on you or stuff to use in a plea bargain if necessary.

I asked the same thing before: what compelled the burglars to tell police about the video of the rape? What caused them to turn against him? They placed the cassette into a camper van of some sort which was later scrapped, and the tape was not found by police prior to the vehicle having been scrapped. We know they told police what they had seen on the tape, but what made them finally tell police?

1. Police had something bigger on the burglars and wanted info on CB to use in their investigation so the burglars coughed up this info in a deal to get a lesser charge / sentence in some other matter?
2. The burglars got pissed off at CB for some reason and rolled on him? What would cause them to roll on him after after they'd previously quietly placed that cassette tape in a vehicle for him?
3. The burglars told someone else what they'd seen (we know they told MT), and *that* someone went to police, so when they were questioned, they gave up the info just because police asked??

Something compelled the burglars who had once been loyal enough to place that cassette into a vehicle for CB to go to police / testify against him. I'd love to know what it was.

 

[photographer4]

See I don't think the older woman he was seen raping by the friends on video was the same person as the 72yr old american. I read in a few media sources shortly after MT's inteview where it was explicitly said it was not the 72yr old victim in this found video but can't seem to find those links now. Can anyone else remember this?

I think the story has been muddled and some sources are thinking it was the 72yr old the friends saw. This article seems to confirm it was different victims to the american lady -

The German man attacked the American woman in her home in Praia da Luz, Portugal in September 2005, about a year-and-a-half before Madeleine vanished in the same resort, the Braunschweiger Zeitung newspaper reported.

He was caught after a friend discovered video of separate attacks on an older woman and a young woman, who were both tied up and raped, and DNA evidence linked him to the rape of the 72-year-old.

The videos were inside the friend's motorhome when it was destroyed for scrap years ago, and he later went to the police with the claims, it was reported.

One video allegedly showed an "older" woman, who sounded like she was saying "help" in Italian, being whipped and raped by a masked man while she was tied up and her eyes were covered, according to the friend.

The video showed the suspect removing his mask and showing his face, according to the report.

The other video allegedly showed a younger woman, speaking German, tied naked to a wooden beam inside a house as she begged to be freed. The suspect was sat on a sofa, the friend told police, adding that he recognised the man and the interior of the house.

German paedophile suspected of murdering Madeleine McCann is named

To me, that sounds like a different "older" victim who was Italian, not American, although the MO was very similar in both rapes. The second rape of the young german woman sounds like it may have taken in the farmhouse with the beam by the sofa. May be why they've released the photo in the hope she recognises the scene and comes forward.

I think you're right. I think that house IS where at least one attack took place and that is why police released those photos of the interior. I think they're trying to find the younger woman who he assaulted there on video. I wonder if they have any idea who she is / where she went / what exactly happened?

 

[Chiatos]

Back to Nicole in Foral; a local lady interviewed by Sexta as 9, told the reporter that she and others were terrified of CB and the group he was with. Nicole had been very aggressive once (and that for a person who is supposed to help troubled youth):

 

[Chiatos]

I think you're right. I think that house IS where at least one attack took place and that is why police released those photos of the interior. I think they're trying to find the younger woman who he assaulted there on video. I wonder if they have any idea who she is / where she went / what exactly happened?

The thing about that interior is that the more I read about it, the more I tend to believe that the beam is in the house of Monte Judeu instead of next door to Ruth.

 

[Dlk79]

The thing about that interior is that the more I read about it, the more I tend to believe that the beam is in the house of Monte Judeu instead of next door to Ruth.

His British ex-girlfriend seems to indicate it was in the farmhouse.

"Portuguese detectives have quizzed the woman about Brueckner’s farmhouse on the outskirts of Praia da Luz.

She spent many nights with him in the run-down property, less than a mile from the Ocean Club resort where Madeleine vanished from while on holiday with her family in May 2007.

She said: “I never lived with him but I often stayed over though. His house was OK, it was old but he kept it tidy and clean. It had one bedroom. I’ve seen the photos and instantly recognised the big tree trunk in the middle of the room.”

Madeleine McCann suspect's ex says police should find his battered estate car

 

[Lilly b]

I'm getting really confused . Pamela Fenn hears crying - from downstairs she thinks - on the 1st. She thinks a child not a baby so not the twins

Rachel Oldfield in the flat next door was actually in on the 2nd. Says you can hear other flat easily. Didn't hear MM and S crying but might have been asleep. Her child is younger than the twins - or is it?

MM asks KM on the 3rd why she hadn't come when her and Sean were crying. Are we sure she meant the 2nd? Unlikely to be clear given her age and if she'd slept on 2nd

KM says they've taken her not someone has taken her. Which is odd I think. Which makes me wonder if MM had reported crying because she thought there was someone there. Which most parents would interpret as just a bad dream. Just opinion really.

Could CBs first attempt have been on the 1st?

Perhaps he went in previously, just to check who was sleeping where, to make it easier for himself on the thursday

 

[photographer4]

I quite possibly have too much time on my hands... but.... I marked up a copy of one of the interior photos that we've been discussing the last few days... I used different colours to help make discussion easier, and I added questions / comments right to the photo. I give you a clean copy, and then the version with circles we had been sharing here (because its a bit lighter and helps show what I'm talking about in my version, which is last along screen right).

I think the thing on the yoga ball is a pair of shoes, not a doll. I drew the outline of it and shoes like high tops came to mind... I note there was some reflection as well, so maybe its sporty shoes?

There is a black thing middle of the room on the table. It has an orange end. A PS3 remote came to mind (for games like Just dance)? Perhaps it is lit up? I'll post one so you can see what I mean in a follow up post.

The "dog" / "cushion" thing: the "leg" along the sofa has an orange tone to it? Part of the dog? Part of a cushion? I don't know, but I'm showing you so you can debate.

What is on the floor beside the dog sofa??

What the heck are the dates on the flyers or newspaper along the back wall??! Where are they from??

The "fire poker" or "whip" has a hole in the "top" part towards the centre of the room. Might help us understand better what it might be.

The "dog" on the floor by the yoga ball, might be a purse or a backpack? I don't see a dog, but I get why some do.

Oh and that might be an "airbed" on the floor between the post and yoga ball. I noted there is something darker to the right of the blanket type thing, but its NOT likely a shadow. I look at the light and its coming from an angle behind the post a bit. Note there is NO shadow behind the lamp at the back of the room... the rest of the shadows follow the same way - and we have the reflection off the yoga ball. This was likely a flash that went off as this is hard light, and if it was soft light, or dim light, I'd have said room or ambient lighting. Best guesses anyhow, but what do I know?

I hope this helps....

 

[photographer4]

I realized after I posted, the version I marked up (the last one on the right) is probably too small to be discussed, so here is a bigger version:

 

[Chiatos]

His British ex-girlfriend seems to indicate it was in the farmhouse.

"Portuguese detectives have quizzed the woman about Brueckner’s farmhouse on the outskirts of Praia da Luz.

She spent many nights with him in the run-down property, less than a mile from the Ocean Club resort where Madeleine vanished from while on holiday with her family in May 2007.

She said: “I never lived with him but I often stayed over though. His house was OK, it was old but he kept it tidy and clean. It had one bedroom. I’ve seen the photos and instantly recognised the big tree trunk in the middle of the room.”

Madeleine McCann suspect's ex says police should find his battered estate car

Yeah I know what you mean. But then if one reads this:
Finally, they say the man rented a property called Escola Vehla which is located between Praia de Luz and Lagos which he vacated suddenly in 2006, and a second property located inland from the beach resorts.

Ruth's daughter remembered the yard of the house as it was being kept by CB. She described it as a junk yard.

 

[photographer4]

A word about the possible play station controllers I mentioned above.... They're called play station move controllers and were used for games that connected a camera to the console, and the controllers caused the characters on the tv to react. Just Dance is one such game that used these controllers. A word of caution though, I've no idea how old the photo in question is, and play station move controllers didn't come out til about 2010 that I know of..... I'm showing you anyhow for your consideration. If I'm wrong, my idea may still spark someone else to come up with something else that might be correct...

 

[Lilly b]

I do believe that was the fosterchild /teenage girl) ‘’the one who run away and he found her with Gypsy’s’ /Roma’s’’ -ahum

Here it goes:
Residents also claimed Brueckner led a search party to find a teenage girl who ran away from the foster home in the summer of 2007, and found her in a seaside town nearby.

Although the timeline is unclear, it has been said the young girl was pregnant by the time she returned and left the area for good soon after.
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'terrified' villagers

Well I wonder if the teenager was one of the 2 women mentioned that was raped, and filmed, as I mentioned prev, one was young, one was around 40 plus

 

[tedtink]

I'm stuck on the fact that the article I posted upthread indicated the burglars found a video recorder with a CASSETTE in it. So I did some basic googling... it seems that video recording didn't really go digital until around the year 2006 (on video cameras). Prior to that it was cassette tapes or dvd. So if he recorded it originally onto cassette, then he HAD to have made a copy and transferred it to digital format to be able to show this to his friend at the bar in 2017. Ten or eleven years AFTER the rape happened, he still had it in digital format to be able to show someone??

I read (somewhere) that is was a camcorder. But that could have been a German site and translated differently.

 

[Dlk79]

Yeah I know what you mean. But then if one reads this:
Finally, they say the man rented a property called Escola Vehla which is located between Praia de Luz and Lagos which he vacated suddenly in 2006, and a second property located inland from the beach resorts.

Ruth's daughter remembered the yard of the house as it was being kept by CB. She described it as a junk yard.

Not sure where you got that quote from but sounds like mixed-up reporting to me. It's the farmhouse that was located between Praia da Luz and Lagos, not Escola Vehla. Incidentally he did vacate the farmhouse suddenly in 2006 as he went to prison in the April. Maps link for Escola Vehla in Monte Judeu is shown below, you can see the name on the house if you go into street view. It's more north of PDL than between PDL and Lagos I'd say.

خرائط ‪Google

ETA: Anyway, regardless of the semantics of the location, what is it leads you to think the beam may be in this house rather than the farmhouse?‬‏‏