Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #10

[Newthoughts]

Finally I see it - thanks!!! Still think I might be seeing something that isn’t there in the first place but I can’t unsee it now!

Also on top of the exercise ball I see a cushion, and also the dog on the coach I now see 2 brown cushions whereas before I was convinced it was a dog....

If nothing else I’m surprised that someone with a camping chair in their lounge seems to take their comfort so seriously and owns so many blimin cushions!!! I guess it’s important for us all to look after our backs

I still can't see anything at all .

 

[Betty_Boop88]

GM originally stated he thought he'd locked the front door but made a correction in his second statement to PJ that he probably hadn't since they left via the patio doors that night. The lock is as you describe yes, cannot be opened from outside even if it was unlocked. You would need a key or at least some thin tool to go between the door and frame to push the latch down (like when you see people using a credit card on fims although a card wouldnt likely be good enough on a door like this). Although if CB had a key, it wouldn't have mattered whether it was unlocked or not.

Something that always makes me do a double take is the language GM’s sister uses regarding the phone call GM made to her that night.
"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."
Trish Cameron, Timesonline 6/5/07

I know it could be wrong wording on her part or she could have just picked him up wrong - but in the UK there’s a big distinction between saying the front door wasn’t locked and the front door was “lying open”. That usually means it wasn’t shut. If I forgot to lock the house up before bed and the front door was shut but just unlocked, I wouldn’t say it had been “lying open”.

It’s pedantic (you can really tell I’m starving for more news), but just something that sticks out to me anytime I read it.

ETA - I know it doesn’t really matter either. Once he was in he could pick any door to leave through.

 

[Newthoughts]

Something that always makes me do a double take is the language GM’s sister uses regarding the phone call GM made to her that night.
"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."
Trish Cameron, Timesonline 6/5/07

I know it could be wrong wording on her part or she could have just picked him up wrong - but in the UK there’s a big distinction between saying the front door wasn’t locked and the front door was “lying open”. That usually means it wasn’t shut. If I forgot to lock the house up before bed and the front door was shut but just unlocked, I wouldn’t say it had been “lying open”.

It’s pedantic (you can really tell I’m starving for more news), but just something that sticks out to me anytime I read it.

Sadly and annoyingly all Tapas folks reports from that night are confusing. Whether they were feeling guilty about the number of times they checked or not I don't know.

The Oldfield guy that said he checked but didn't look at MMs bed had said it was bright. Some kind of external light source. Then there was evidence of a babysitter who'd been in 5A months before who'd seen the external security light come on and had found a man where she'd been expecting a rat. Has anyone connected those to see could it have been the front door light MO had seen?

I agree lying open and just unlocked are different

 

[Betty_Boop88]

If something had been photoshopped out of the photo, assuming LE did it, and did it correctly, there would be no indication visible in the photo that it had been altered. Let me show ya.... what you see below would also apply to photos that were originally prints... once we turn them digital (scan them into the computer or take a pic of the pic and work on that digitally)... we can do anything... and if it is done well, you cannot tell....

I'm too lazy to grab a link so if you want to see how it is done, search the words below the photo... on youtube....

Thanks, Photographer! Took me a few seconds to even realise what was missing I’m not a morning person at all lol.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s photoshopped at all. It would never be in the public’s possession if it were a sinister photo for one. And LE would have people with better Photoshop skills than that if it were. I think it’s just a an anomaly of some description - possibly caused by smoke, or a smudge on the screen. I don’t think we need to focus on it too much. Except to say we know CB smoked so it could indicate he took the photo. But then who doesn’t smoke in the Med?

 

[Lilly b]

I can't stop thinking about little Maddie (and maybe one of the twins) crying for an HOUR the night before she was taken. It would break my heart knowing one of my precious children or grandchildren had cried for an hour and no one was there. And then for them to be snatched away...I couldn't live with it. If this is too close to victim slamming, delete it. I just had to get it off my chest.

Could the crying not come from apartment next to MM, as mentioned a page or so before, friends next door, was poorly, and it could of disturbed their child, need to check prev to see who it was, and child age
It was RO, she had a daughter too, what's to say it wasn't her crying?

 

[NCanning]

I don't think we should necessarily read too much into that fact that nobody noticed any sensor lights switching on.
Many holiday apartments have automatic lights at the doors, and they switch on and off constantly as people move around, so you dont even notice it happening after a while.
(Unless they are referring to a much brighter spotlight, obv)

 

[JediJim]

Ive been away from the threads for a few days so cannot catch up on everything.

But a few things to clarify;
First- how high was the McCanns apartment window? It looks over head height to me but some people have said it was normal ground floor height. I’m a bit confused how an abductor would leave via a high window..

Secondly, the old lady above the Mccanns apartment , Pamela something said her apartment was broken into before the McCanns arrived. So breaks in did occur at the resort.
This was the same lady who apparently seemed unconcerned when Kate said her daughter had gone missing that night, in Kate’s book. The lady died in 2011.

 

[photographer4]

Thanks, Photographer! Took me a few seconds to even realise what was missing I’m not a morning person at all lol.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s photoshopped at all. It would never be in the public’s possession if it were a sinister photo for one. And LE would have people with better Photoshop skills than that if it were. I think it’s just a an anomaly of some description - possibly caused by smoke, or a smudge on the screen. I don’t think we need to focus on it too much. Except to say we know CB smoked so it could indicate he took the photo. But then who doesn’t smoke in the Med?

For it to be a dirty lens, the dirt would have to be INSIDE the lens. Some cameras have the option to change lenses, and some extend, but do not come off the camera. Dirt on the outside end of the lens generally doesn't cause problems except with your line of sight as you shoot. So it isn't likely to be dust on the lens, or a smudge... unless the camera had a removable lens, and there was dirt or smudges on the back end of the lens.
The Effect of Dust on Lens Bokeh

 

[Dlk79]

Ive been away from the threads for a few days so cannot catch up on everything.

But a few things to clarify;
First- how high was the McCanns apartment window? It looks over head height to me but some people have said it was normal ground floor height. I’m a bit confused how an abductor would leave via a high window..

Secondly, the old lady above the Mccanns apartment , Pamela something said her apartment was broken into before the McCanns arrived. So breaks in did occur at the resort.
This was the same lady who apparently seemed unconcerned when Kate said her daughter had gone missing that night, in Kate’s book. The lady died in 2011.

Not very high, pics attached.

ETA: You might be thinking of the living room window on the side of the apartment. That is above head height but MM's was only around a metre or so high.

 

[Newthoughts]

Ive been away from the threads for a few days so cannot catch up on everything.

But a few things to clarify;
First- how high was the McCanns apartment window? It looks over head height to me but some people have said it was normal ground floor height. I’m a bit confused how an abductor would leave via a high window..

Secondly, the old lady above the Mccanns apartment , Pamela something said her apartment was broken into before the McCanns arrived. So breaks in did occur at the resort.
This was the same lady who apparently seemed unconcerned when Kate said her daughter had gone missing that night, in Kate’s book. The lady died in 2011.

Here is that lady's witness statement. I'm sure when I read it before it was the 2nd that she heard the crying.

She is sure it came from the apartment below and that it wasn't a baby.
P.J. POLICE FILES: MRS PAMELA FENN STATEMENT

 

[Dlk79]

Here is that lady's witness statement. I'm sure when I read it before it was the 2nd that she heard the crying.

She is sure it came from the apartment below and that it wasn't a baby.
P.J. POLICE FILES: MRS PAMELA FENN STATEMENT

Yes there has been conflicting statements about which date the crying took place, the 1st or 2nd. In PF's statement she says it was the 1st, 2 days before the abduction.

I think the discrepancy may be due to people getting confused about the comment MM then made to her parents on the morning of the 3rd asking why they didn't come last night when her and her brother were crying. PF was not home on the 2nd until late so it's possible that MM cried both nights or MM herself got it wrong.

The McCann's nextdoor neighbour RO didn't report any crying on the 2nd though either and she stayed home that night instead of going to the Tapas with the rest of the group as one of the kids was ill.

 

[Lilly b]

Here is that lady's witness statement. I'm sure when I read it before it was the 2nd that she heard the crying.

She is sure it came from the apartment below and that it wasn't a baby.
P.J. POLICE FILES: MRS PAMELA FENN STATEMENT

So the crying was not the day before mm went missing, it was the 1st May, not the 2nd May, so it could of been RO's daughter, interesting that I always thought it was the night before MM went missing

 

[Lilly b]

Yes there has been conflicting statements about which date the crying took place, the 1st or 2nd. In PF's statement she says it was the 1st, 2 days before the abduction.

I think the discrepancy may be due to people getting confused about the comment MM then made to her parents on the morning of the 3rd asking why they didn't come last night when her and her brother were crying. PF was not home on the 2nd until late so it's possible that MM cried both nights or MM herself got it wrong.

The McCann's nextdoor neighbour RO didn't report any crying on the 2nd though either and she stayed home that night instead of going to the Tapas with the rest of the group as one of the kids was ill.

And children do cry when they are sick

 

[Newthoughts]

So the crying was not the day before mm went missing, it was the 1st May, not the 2nd May, so it could of been RO's daughter, interesting that I always thought it was the night before MM went missing

I thought the ill child has been on the 3rd? Not sure which apartment.
P.J. POLICE FILES: RUSSELL O'BRIEN'S 04 MAY 07 STATEMENT

 

[Dlk79]

I thought the ill child has been on the 3rd? Not sure which apartment.
P.J. POLICE FILES: RUSSELL O'BRIEN'S 04 MAY 07 STATEMENT

From RO's interview -

"so on Wednesday night I didnt go to dinner cos I'd thrown up the night before, you know it was just another weird thing about holiday cos I'm never ill, neither is Matt, as long as I've known him I've never known him be sick, erm'.

1578 'So you, on the Wednesday evening then, you stayed in the apartment with Grace''
Reply 'Yeah, yeah. I remember reading my book on the sofa for a while and then think I, I went to bed but it would have been quite, you know it would have been about nine, cos I'd been up most of the night before, erm and I mean I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they'd been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they'd said they'd been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I'd heard anything but'.

1578 'On the Wednesday evening'.
Reply 'Mmm'.

1578 'Who said they'd been crying sorry''
Reply 'Kate did, when we sat down at the table on the Thursday night, Kate said that erm, Madeleine and Sean had cried, said they'd been crying, erm and you know wondered where she was, or wondered where you know, Mummy and Daddy were, erm I mean this was kind of after Madeleine disappeared, we talked, she mentioned that when we sat at the table on Thursday and then after Madeleine had disappeared, erm McCANNS said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they'd seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didnt hear any, well you know, I didnt hear anything, I could well have been asleep, erm you could hear quite a lot through the apartments"

P.J. POLICE FILES: RACHAEL OLDFIELD'S ROGATORY

 

[Newthoughts]

I thought the ill child has been on the 3rd? Not sure which apartment.
P.J. POLICE FILES: RUSSELL O'BRIEN'S 04 MAY 07 STATEMENT

Looks like R Oldfield was ill on the 2nd but she didn't hear crying.

So I wonder did MM get confused. She was very young. And the crying was on the 1st. CB was out with a gf on 2nd. What was he doing on 1,st

 

[worldwatcher]

From RO's interview -

"so on Wednesday night I didnt go to dinner cos I'd thrown up the night before, you know it was just another weird thing about holiday cos I'm never ill, neither is Matt, as long as I've known him I've never known him be sick, erm'.

1578 'So you, on the Wednesday evening then, you stayed in the apartment with Grace''
Reply 'Yeah, yeah. I remember reading my book on the sofa for a while and then think I, I went to bed but it would have been quite, you know it would have been about nine, cos I'd been up most of the night before, erm and I mean I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they'd been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they'd said they'd been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I'd heard anything but'.

1578 'On the Wednesday evening'.
Reply 'Mmm'.

1578 'Who said they'd been crying sorry''
Reply 'Kate did, when we sat down at the table on the Thursday night, Kate said that erm, Madeleine and Sean had cried, said they'd been crying, erm and you know wondered where she was, or wondered where you know, Mummy and Daddy were, erm I mean this was kind of after Madeleine disappeared, we talked, she mentioned that when we sat at the table on Thursday and then after Madeleine had disappeared, erm McCANNS said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they'd seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didnt hear any, well you know, I didnt hear anything, I could well have been asleep, erm you could hear quite a lot through the apartments"

P.J. POLICE FILES: RACHAEL OLDFIELD'S ROGATORY

Do you think that M & S crying, could be heard from the outside the appartement? And there was one,who heard them,saw this as a given opportunity?
My experience is that if one child starts crying,another follows (at that age)

 

[Newthoughts]

Do you think that M & S crying, could be heard from the outside the appartement? And there was one,who heard them,saw this as a given opportunity?
My experience is that if one child starts crying,another follows (at that age)

I'm getting really confused . Pamela Fenn hears crying - from downstairs she thinks - on the 1st. She thinks a child not a baby so not the twins

Rachel Oldfield in the flat next door was actually in on the 2nd. Says you can hear other flat easily. Didn't hear MM and S crying but might have been asleep. Her child is younger than the twins - or is it?

MM asks KM on the 3rd why she hadn't come when her and Sean were crying. Are we sure she meant the 2nd? Unlikely to be clear given her age and if she'd slept on 2nd

KM says they've taken her not someone has taken her. Which is odd I think. Which makes me wonder if MM had reported crying because she thought there was someone there. Which most parents would interpret as just a bad dream. Just opinion really.

Could CBs first attempt have been on the 1st?

 

[photographer4]

Fall Maddie: Verdächtiger beginn Missbrauch an 72-Jähriger - Blick

According to this article, which I read with the help of a translator built into my browser, it was two acquaintances who burgled CB's place and discovered a video camera, and a "video cassette" which is reported to have held "disturbing recordings". This article also notes that CB took off his mask after the attack (of the elderly American woman) as he sat on the end of her bed. The robbers found the blackened goggles worn by the victim in CB's bedroom. According to this article, there was a teenage victim who had been tied to a post and attacked as well.

From this article, it sounds like there was more than one attack recorded on the video cassette. The cassette was left inside a camper van which was scrapped. I suspect it was BP who scrapped it for him (like others here have suggested). Its a shame police didn't find that video. But CB also somehow still had a copy of the video of the attack against the American woman. We know this b/c he is said to have shown it to someone in a bar on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance. I recall reading that CB's friend MT (the guy he was caught stealing diesel with, and who had lived with him for awhile).... had told the burglars he didn't want to see the video of the elderly woman being raped. MT is now convinced that CB is guilty. I wonder if the plea for information was from police to anyone else who the burglars may have shown that video tape to? If they were willing to show MT, they were probably also willing to show other associates as well.

I also wonder who the teenage victim was? I hope she will come forward to talk to LE and report what happened to her if she hasn't already. I can only image the reasons why a victim wouldn't have wanted to come forward then or now.

 

[worldwatcher]

Fall Maddie: Verdächtiger beginn Missbrauch an 72-Jähriger - Blick

According to this article, which I read with the help of a translator built into my browser, it was two acquaintances who burgled CB's place and discovered a video camera, and a "video cassette" which is reported to have held "disturbing recordings". This article also notes that CB took off his mask after the attack (of the elderly American woman) as he sat on the end of her bed. The robbers found the blackened goggles worn by the victim in CB's bedroom. According to this article, there was a teenage victim who had been tied to a post and attacked as well.

From this article, it sounds like there was more than one attack recorded on the video cassette. The cassette was left inside a camper van which was scrapped. I suspect it was BP who scrapped it for him (like others here have suggested). Its a shame police didn't find that video. But CB also somehow still had a copy of the video of the attack against the American woman. We know this b/c he is said to have shown it to someone in a bar on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance. I recall reading that CB's friend MT (the guy he was caught stealing diesel with, and who had lived with him for awhile).... had told the burglars he didn't want to see the video of the elderly woman being raped. MT is now convinced that CB is guilty. I wonder if the plea for information was from police to anyone else who the burglars may have shown that video tape to? If they were willing to show MT, they were probably also willing to show other associates as well.

I also wonder who the teenage victim was? I hope she will come forward to talk to LE and report what happened to her if she hasn't already. I can only image the reasons why a victim wouldn't have wanted to come forward then or now.

I do believe that was the fosterchild /teenage girl) ‘’the one who run away and he found her with Gypsy’s’ /Roma’s’’ -ahum

Here it goes:
Residents also claimed Brueckner led a search party to find a teenage girl who ran away from the foster home in the summer of 2007, and found her in a seaside town nearby.

Although the timeline is unclear, it has been said the young girl was pregnant by the time she returned and left the area for good soon after.
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'terrified' villagers