Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #16

[Miss_Paula]

Hold on, I'm confused now. Can you explain what is meant by these comments in the report -

"The Defendant and Ireland contend that such a circumstance does not affect the application of the specialty principle."

...The defendant and Ireland are therefore right to say that the application of the exception in Article 27 (3) (a) of Framework Decision 2002/584 is conditional on voluntary return, but wrong in their assumption that his forced return is not subject to his voluntary return Departure reactivated the principle of specialty based on the first handover."

Is this saying that the reason Irish government representatives were involved in the initial Appeal hearing was because they were agreeing with CB on the extradition principle of specialty, and that his rape trial was illegal? Most people assumed it was to do with their vested interest in the HB case but this reads quite differently.

Excuse me, Dlk79, what do you mean by HB case?

Oh, yes, Ireland was on the CB side. It showed up at the first trial a few weeks ago. That's why people in Germany were so sceptical about the ECJ ruling.

But I didn't want to talk about it so much, in order not to appear nationalistic or to give the impression that I was discrediting Ireland. It is their right to do so.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Unless he is a kleptomaniac of course
eta- Maybe the diesel thefts were MT's idea.
CB is said to have stolen 100s of passports too - They didn't seem to have any monetary value for him from all accounts.

The thrill of the power he felt it gave him? JMO

 

[Pixie Child]

Hold on, I'm confused now. Can you explain what is meant by these comments in the report -

"The Defendant and Ireland contend that such a circumstance does not affect the application of the specialty principle."

...The defendant and Ireland are therefore right to say that the application of the exception in Article 27 (3) (a) of Framework Decision 2002/584 is conditional on voluntary return, but wrong in their assumption that his forced return is not subject to his voluntary return Departure reactivated the principle of specialty based on the first handover."

Is this saying that the reason Irish government representatives were involved in the initial Appeal hearing was because they were agreeing with CB on the extradition principle of specialty, and that his rape trial was illegal? Most people assumed it was to do with their vested interest in the HB case but this reads quite differently.

Ireland may have an interest due to the Bailey extradition case. (France is seeking extradition of an Irish citizen for the murder of a French citizen in Ireland.)

 

[Dlk79]

Excuse me, Dlk79, what do you mean by HB case?

Oh, yes, Ireland was on the CB side. It showed up at the first trial a few weeks ago. That's why people in Germany were so sceptical about the ECJ ruling.

But I didn't want to talk about it so much, in order not to appear nationalistic or to give the impression that I was discrediting Ireland. It is their right to do so.

Here you go, should give you an idea.

Portugal police could reopen case into rape of Irish woman in 2004 | Portugal | The Guardian

We were discussing on a previous thread why the Irish would be at the Appeal and most people assumed it was due to this case. Nothing mentioned in UK media as far as I'm aware that it was because they were siding with CB.

 

[JugsAndTugs]

Nothing to say, just marking my spot in this thread.

Trust the dibble to get involved

Jk You’ve been missed!

 

[Dlk79]

Ireland may have an interest due to the Bailey extradition case. (France is seeking extradition of an Irish citizen for the murder of a French citizen in Ireland.)

You could well be right there, seems a similar type argument is being made in that case. Maybe Ireland are contending whether Spain had the right to agree the rape extradition as opposed to Portugal agreeing it.

Quote from the Bailey article on their defence of opposing the extradition:

Section 44 states that a person shall not be surrendered under this Act if the offence specified in the EAW was committed in a place other than the issuing State and the offence does not, by virtue of having been committed in a place other than the State, constitute an offence under the law of the State.

Ian Bailey extradition request an 'abuse of process', hearing told

 

[Officer Dibble]

Trust the dibble to get involved

Jk You’ve been missed!

These threads move so fast and I can't always read it every single day, sometimes several days so then I lose my place. Other threads aren't so busy.

 

[Newthoughts]

Excuse me, Dlk79, what do you mean by HB case?

Oh, yes, Ireland was on the CB side. It showed up at the first trial a few weeks ago. That's why people in Germany were so sceptical about the ECJ ruling.

But I didn't want to talk about it so much, in order not to appear nationalistic or to give the impression that I was discrediting Ireland. It is their right to do so.

Hopefully they don't have a veto in court. I'm amazed. I have family in Ireland who'd be disgusted to hear this

 

[Chiatos]

Hold on, I'm confused now. Can you explain what is meant by these comments in the report -

"The Defendant and Ireland contend that such a circumstance does not affect the application of the specialty principle."

...The defendant and Ireland are therefore right to say that the application of the exception in Article 27 (3) (a) of Framework Decision 2002/584 is conditional on voluntary return, but wrong in their assumption that his forced return is not subject to his voluntary return Departure reactivated the principle of specialty based on the first handover."

Is this saying that the reason Irish government representatives were involved in the initial Appeal hearing was because they were agreeing with CB on the extradition principle of specialty, and that his rape trial was illegal? Most people assumed it was to do with their vested interest in the HB case but this reads quite differently.

AND because the McCanns have Irish roots.
They received much Irish support in the past.
I don't get this. This is not supportive.

 

[Newthoughts]

AND because the McCanns have Irish roots.
They received much Irish support in the past.
I don't get this. This is not supportive.

Yep she was from Liverpool - very Irish. Maiden name Healy - very Irish. McCann - Irish surname. This is letting a very dangerous individual off the hook

 

[SuperdadV8]

I've never read from a reliable source, that Ireland follows another perspective.

I've only read statements from F.F.! Someone that stated, C.B. seems to be a likeable gal. An innocent victim of prosecution, done by very evil law enforcement that is taking influence in the case by using the media.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

I’m entitled to dual nationality where I’m from... Might give up my Irish passport for a Brit one after this...

 

[Okapi]

I'm a dual citizen Betty, and very mortified by the logic behind this, especially when an Irish citizen was likely one of CB's victims.

 

[Newthoughts]

I’m entitled to dual nationality where I’m from... Might give up my Irish passport for a Brit one after this...

Oh no don't do that . I'm British by birth, British passport etc but of Irish parentage and I've just applied for my Irish passport to get dual nationality despite never having lived there. I can tell you nearly every man and his dog over here in sunny GB has been scrabbling about trying to find Irish ancestors to do the same since 2016. My husband is gutted that his in law's don't count.

I'm gutted too but hopefully they can't veto the advice given.

Doesn't seem much reported over there? Can't find it anywhere

 

[Miss_Paula]

I've never read from a reliable source, that Ireland follows another perspective.

I've only read statements from F.F.! Someone that stated, C.B. seems to be a likeable gal. An innocent victim of prosecution, done by very evil law enforcement that is taking influence in the case by using the media.

But the "Opinion of Advocate General Michal Bobek" (I had linked here this morning) are now the credible source for the fact that FF was not tipsy from his holy water with this statement.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

Oh no don't do that . I'm British by birth, British passport etc but of Irish parentage and I've just applied for my Irish passport to get dual nationality despite never having lived there. I can tell you nearly every man and his dog over here in sunny GB has been scrabbling about trying to find Irish ancestors to do the same since 2016. My husband is gutted that his in law's don't count.

I'm gutted too but hopefully they can't veto the advice given.

Doesn't seem much reported over there? Can't find it anywhere

Awk it wouldn’t matter here anyway, Newthoughts - because we’re N.Ire we can hold both passports at the same time, we don’t need to denounce one to hold the other. And with Brexit you’d have to prise my Irish passport from my cold dead hands lol.
But Okapi said it, we’re just mortified by this, especially because he could be linked to the rape of an Irish citizen. They should have been there to fight the case against him. Haven’t seen anything about it on the news here but I’m in work so haven’t been able to check properly.

 

[SuperdadV8]

But the "Opinion of Advocate General Michal Bobek" (I had linked here this morning) are now the credible source for the fact that FF was not tipsy from his holy water with this statement.

That is right dear Paula, also Ireland followed the legal opinion, that C.B. could have been extracted unlawful, due to the legal regulations according to the speciality of arrest warrants.

Even Mr. Bobek wrote this down!

BUT!

Due to the fact, that the suspect left germany by his free will, that unlawful procedure has no effect on the lawfully containment, that "speciality" (drug charge) has expired and the "new or parallel issued arrest warrant" of which he then has been taken into containment (then the rape charge) and was extradicted to germany, came into force.

Result:

Rules have been broken but that does not leed to an unlawful use of the other arrest warrant, that has been made. Of course, the case would have been jugded otherwise, if he was extradicted from germany to italy by authories (maybe warrant for drug charge), spends time in prison and then had sent back to germany of a special arrest warrant (maybe theft) and then has been brought to court for a crime (maybe rape), that special arrest warrant hasn't been issued for.

So i do not expect a veto from Ireland. They will except THAT decision, the ECJ will make in a few weeks.

 

[SuperdadV8]

By the way. Do you have mentioned that yesterday F.F. told for the first time, that his client is innocent? Is he reading this forum?

But he claimed it, a few days after he told the world that his client would never ever coorporate with L.E.!

That really fits perfectly together! Good strategy! Very logical argumentation! Looks really like a big kick for a long carreer as a No.1 solicitor!

 

[Pixie Child]

I'm a dual citizen Betty, and very mortified by the logic behind this, especially when an Irish citizen was likely one of CB's victims.

Ireland has no interest in CB. Ireland does have an interest in protecting its citizens from being investigated twice & tried in another jurisdiction.

Bailey (a UK citizen, resident in Ireland) was investigated for the murder of a French citizen in Ireland. Irish police deemed the evidence insufficient to charge. France subsequently attempted to extradite. Ireland refused. Bailey was tried & convicted in absentia in France without participation or legal representation. France is now trying to extradite him to serve his sentence. Bailey has spent the last 20y defending his reputation, fighting extradition & he hasn’t started to serve a sentence yet.

 

[Tekno]

Hi Chiatos
You said:
“Barao Sao Joao is where hippies like to gather and they're of all ages. You can see it on youtube. CB went there regularly. With a male friend who looked like him. Who was this friend? Not MT for he has black hair and dark eyes“.
Do you have any additional information/footage as regards the friend with ‘black hair and dark eyes’, please?