Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[Victoria Chambers]

No, it's the other way around. The statement about other people possibly having knowledge of the crime came out in the initial BKA Appeal, linked here -

BKA - Fahndung nach Personen - Verschwinden der Madeleine McCANN am 03.05.2007 in Praia da Luz / Portugal – Zeugen gesucht
Furthermore, there is reason to assume that there are other people besides the perpetrator who have specific knowledge of the possible course of events and, if applicable, the location of the corpse. We expressly ask these people to get in touch and share their knowledge.

The comments about believing CB acted alone came during subsequent interviews HCW made when probed about possible accomplices.

So they are not looking for an accomplice. But they are looking for an accessory. One would be directly involved in the crime itself. The latter would have pre or post-knowledge of the crime. X

 

[Newthoughts]

The fact that they are using media suggests they need to reach a person or persons not directly known to them.

I don't know precisely what they are looking for but an example could be that CB visited a drug associate in the region on the 4th, and maybe the girlfriend of that person might remember seeing CB.

Just as an example

The language used - reason to assume others know the course of events and possibly where the body was put - seems odd if all they're after is just observations of CBs general behaviour from acquaintances and the general public.

I still think the generic requests for anyone with knowledge of CBs movements in the time after the event would be more apt for what you're suggesting. This sounds far more targeted and specific.

I think it's important to listen to the language they've used. Reasons to assume is odd - what reasons. Knowing the course is far more specific than requests for general info about a visit to mates.

I don't know what they're looking for either but I think it's quite specific and I think it's based on something they know already and perhaps someone

 

[redplanet]

Is there a time difference between the two statements? Looking at your points above, it could be that they have received new information after the initial “acted alone” statement which either suggests that other people may have been involved in the abduction (I feel this is less likely) or that someone else has been informed afterwards.

"other persons" was in the official written BKA appeal, "acted alone" came later I think

 

[redplanet]

Perhaps they think CB took her from the apartment alone, but they have photographic/video material that shows more than one person with the body at an unspecified later time? That would fit both statements.

Maybe. But it is extraordinary that the BKA appeal says that some other persons possibly know the Ablageort. Surely IMO a perpetrator would not share that location with other people?

 

[Dlk79]

When the BKA Appeal was first launched, Operation Grange made a similar Appeal. Within that, DCI Mark Cranwell made some similar statements about believing there were others who may know about the crime. His comments imply they think CB may have told other people about what had happened.

'There may be people in the past who have been quite fearful of coming forward to the police, and my message is to anybody that has information... the message really is associated with the fact he is currently in prison.

'This might be a good time, this is a good time, to come forward and talk to, whether it's the UK police, whether it's the German police or the Portuguese police.'

'Some people will know the man we are describing today, the suspect in our investigation. I'm appealing to you directly.

'You may know, you may be aware of some of the things he has done. He may have confided in you about the disappearance of Madeleine.

'More than 13 years have passed and your loyalties may have changed.

'This individual is in prison and we are conscious that some people may have been concerned about contacting police in the past. Now is the time to come forward."

New Madeleine McCann suspect discussed her in an online chatroom

 

[MsBetsy]

Or a body.

Yeah, that would be the best outcome, if only they had a clue as to where she could be. It seems like they have exhausted all those leads.

There must be someone who knows something. As far as I know they still don't know who the caller was he allegedly spoke to the night of the disappearance.

Didn't he also speak to someone on the phone right before he committed a burglary in another crime? His ex-girlfriend or something? I thought I read that here somewhere.

 

[redplanet]

If other persons accompanied and assisted him at the 'Ablageort', that would make them accomplices and contradict the "acted alone" statement.

 

[redplanet]

I use the German word on the assumption it defines what the BKA intends more exactly than the English. I think Ablageort can mean deposition location, or storage location.

 

[redplanet]

I wonder whether PJ and SY attached any relevance to the supposedly overheard "why did you bring her here?" story?

 

[SuperdadV8]

I use the German word on the assumption it defines what the BKA intends more exactly than the English. I think Ablageort can mean deposition location, or storage location.

Ablageort means the place where the body has been "disposed".

IMO HCW never said, that he assumes CB acted alone. All he said was that they actually investigate just against CB, if my memory doesn't play tricks on me.

You can also have knowledge about a crime somebody else did, without being an accomplice to THAT crime!

 

[Newthoughts]

I wonder whether PJ and SY attached any relevance to the supposedly overheard "why did you bring her here?" story?

I've not heard of that overheard story? It sounds quite interesting?

 

[redplanet]

I've not heard of that overheard story? It sounds quite interesting?

EXCLUSIVE: Maddie witness overheard sinister comment about disposing of a body
ETA BTW it's fairly elementary to work out that the first mentioned female witness is KH.

 

[Dlk79]

IMO HCW never said, that he assumes CB acted alone. All he said was that they actually investigate just against CB, if my memory doesn't play tricks on me.

The prosecutor also rubbished reports earlier this week that German police believed the chief Madeleine McCann suspect had an accomplice, and addressed earlier accusations made on Portuguese TV Brueckner’s ’ex’ girlfriend Nicole Fehlinger was involved in an Algarve burglary he was linked to.

He said: “Naturally we investigate everyone known to us to see if they had something to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.

“This woman was the suspect’s ex-girlfriend and she is classed as a witness but we don’t have any reason to believe she is linked to this crime.

“She is not a suspect for us. We are only investigating Christian B, nobody else. At this stage we believe he acted alone in this case.”

Madeleine McCann police have 'no smoking gun' to charge Christian Brueckner

 

[Newthoughts]

EXCLUSIVE: Maddie witness overheard sinister comment about disposing of a body
ETA BTW it's fairly elementary to work out that the first mentioned female witness is KH.

Thanks for that. I'd not heard that before. Wonder if it's been acted on now

 

[Anxala]

Found the quote, an extraordinary statement by BKA:
"On the German 'Crimewatch', BKA director Christian Hoppe urged anyone with information 'of the possible course of events' to come forward and 'clear their conscience'.
He said his officers needed people who were holidaying in Praia da Luz in May 2007 to fill 'the final gaps' in his investigation.
The BKA's appeal said: 'There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left.'"
Madeleine McCann: Paedophile suspect had 17 convictions | Daily Mail Online

On the surface, ^ that's a very loaded request. Specifically people who were holidaying there at the time as opposed to locals?

But it does seem to be qualified (to some degree) in the list of accompanying questions (see last one @ ^link) he's hoping for answers to - people who were holidaying there at the time and have holiday pics/videos dating from then which might include vital info - eg. CB in the background of a shot on a particular day/at a particular time, or one of his vehicles parked somewhere, etc etc.

Maybe it's a translation thing and what he actually means is that holidaymakers may inadvertently have captured and be in possession of some vital pieces of info that they're unaware of, rather than implying that there are holidaymakers out there who have vital info but are withholding it.

Sorry, a bit rambly, thinking aloud, hope that makes some small amount of sense.

 

[tedtink]

I do believe that when HB went public with this story, he did mention to a Tabloid that CB had a friend, an older guy. I remember there was talk here amongst the group of it possibly being AB. But I have always thought that HB was 'hinting' towards that older guy rather than just passing comment on him. X

BP possibly.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Thanks for that. I'd not heard that before. Wonder if it's been acted on now

No I had not heard of this before neither. But to think that a Bar owner had received a call about it, suggests to me that a number of people have obviously been sitting on information for years. And I'm not sure how well received this next comment will be - But to think some of these people could be British makes me sick to the pit of my stomach! X

 

[peanutJelly]

I’m wondering if HCW knows what info he wants to receive. Is it possible that they have info that they can not use in court as it was not obtained by legal means? This may be why he is so sure it was CB, but also why at the moment they can not charge him as the evidence they have is not admissible in court. Just a theory...

 

[SuperdadV8]

Let's be honest!

Even if just british tabloids keep it online with new "info" almost every week, let's get to the facts.

SY, PJ and BKA seem to be investigating.

We are all grown up enough to know, that no serious police force will hold up summits with authorities from other countries, because of lack of evidence and desperation, right?

They have got enough work to do. Silence can be progress, especially in murder investigations.

HCW is in charge, but also the press-speaking unit. He seems to be a intelligent prosecuter with a good "poker face" either. There should be some progress.

Why...?

Because the solicitor is unusually quiet and maybe working like a donkey at a portugese well...?

I'm hopeful either!

 

[tedtink]

Let's be honest!

Even if just british tabloids keep it online with new "info" almost every week, let's get to the facts.

SY, PJ and BKA seem to be investigating.

We are all grown up enough to know, that no serious police force will hold up summits with authorities from other countries, because of lack of evidence and desperation, right?

They have got enough work to do. Silence can be progress, especially in murder investigations.

HCW is in charge, but also the press-speaking unit. He seems to be a intelligent prosecuter with a good "poker face" either. There should be some progress.

Why...?

Because the solicitor is unusually quiet and maybe working like a donkey at a portugese well...?

I'm hopeful either!

FF was in Portugal a couple of weeks ago then told us he has info that will make us Brits fall off our chairs.

Now we see Port, German and UK LE all in Portugal together for the first (reported) time having a 'conference'

Anyone think this is just a coincidence? Or could it be we're missing something?