Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #22

[mrjitty]

I am down with the theory that they may end up taking him down on other offences but not this one.

 

[tedtink]

I wonder if the Sun is garbling things here (wouldn't be the first time...).
Near the start of the article it says:
A KEY Madeleine McCann case witness has sensationally identified suspect Christian B as the man she saw acting suspiciously outside the McCanns’ apartment.

When shown a picture of the paedophile, the British woman — quizzed at the time of the abduction — said: “That’s the man I saw.”
[...]
The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007

So it wasn't necessarily after the abduction that she observed the suspicious behaviour - she observed it earlier & reported it very soon after the news about MM came out, then later still she was shown the photo & stated that it showed the man she'd seen.

Now putting that together with the Sun's other statement later in the same article:

The second woman saw the image in 2007, and also confirmed it was a man she had seen behaving bizarrely in the days after Madeleine went missing.

All it needs is a comma after 'bizarrely' to make it read quite differently:

The second woman saw the image in 2007, and also confirmed it was a man she had seen behaving bizarrely, in the days after Madeleine went missing.

This would now mean that her confirmation - not her observation - was made in the days after M went missing (i.e. when the witness was questioned, just like the first witness).

Sorry about the long-windedness! I'm just trying to explain that 'in the days after' could refer to 'also confirmed' rather than 'she had seen'.

Yes, I think it's a bit of a jumbled report and think they meant to say that she saw the photo days after MM went missing and not that she saw CB days after.

"The nanny told the Mirror today: “I was shown identikits the day after they took my statement [about her time with Madeleine]."
“I recognised a few people from just being about… one guy I recognised was a known paedophile who later committed suicide.
"I am aware of his [Brueckner’s] name and face from photos I was shown but I don’t think I remember having seen him in real life."

New Madeleine McCann suspect investigated five days after her disappearance

 

[axelcruze]

IF (a HUGE IF) Christian B is charged with M’s disappearance, the probabilities are:
.
- that he will plead not guilty;

- there will be no information on the phone call made to him;

- there will be no evidence that the phone which belonged to him was used by him that evening
the phone mast information will not be accurate enough to place the call near the apartment;

- his lawyer will use the PJ file info to defend his client;

- any witnesses claiming to have seen a man lurking near the apartment may be asked to give evidence and show their faces publicly;

- a 6ft man using a window to escape carrying a child will be demonstrated as impossible;

- CB may be able to prove he was not in the area at the relevant times;

- the indications of Eddie and Keela will be used by the defence;

Fülscher’s belief is that his client has been ‘cherry picked’ to be the scapegoat for Madeleine’s abduction.

“He is perfect for it: given up by his own mother for adoption, fostered to a family that has no contact with him, a history of criminal activity, drug taking and sex acts in front of children.

The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place. Could HB have been a plant to extract a confession from CB - i.e they vaguely know each other from PDL, HB gets trafficking reduced sentence in return for informant and tracking down CB with a recorded conversation/confession?

 

[misty48]

IF (a HUGE IF) Christian B is charged with M’s disappearance, the probabilities are:
.
- that he will plead not guilty;

- there will be no information on the phone call made to him;

- there will be no evidence that the phone which belonged to him was used by him that evening
the phone mast information will not be accurate enough to place the call near the apartment;

- his lawyer will use the PJ file info to defend his client;

- any witnesses claiming to have seen a man lurking near the apartment may be asked to give evidence and show their faces publicly;

- a 6ft man using a window to escape carrying a child will be demonstrated as impossible;

- CB may be able to prove he was not in the area at the relevant times;

- the indications of Eddie and Keela will be used by the defence;

Fülscher’s belief is that his client has been ‘cherry picked’ to be the scapegoat for Madeleine’s abduction.

“He is perfect for it: given up by his own mother for adoption, fostered to a family that has no contact with him, a history of criminal activity, drug taking and sex acts in front of children.

Possible evidence
The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place. Could HB have been a plant to extract a confession from CB - i.e they vaguely know each other from PDL, HB gets trafficking reduced sentence in return for informant and tracking down CB with a recorded conversation/confession?

Formal pleas of guilty or not guilty do not exist in German criminal trials.
If CB wishes to use the call made to him at 7.30pm on 3rd May as part of his defence he will have to reveal the caller's identity. Alternatively, if CB didn't have his phone at the time, he will have to reveal the identity of the person who did. The unknown caller had to have acquired CB's number from someone.
I think it's important to remember this crime appears to have been planned before 7.30pm on 3rd May so CB's call history before that time will have been analysed.

 

[C.greek]

IF (a HUGE IF) Christian B is charged with M’s disappearance, the probabilities are:
.
- that he will plead not guilty;

- there will be no information on the phone call made to him;

- there will be no evidence that the phone which belonged to him was used by him that evening
the phone mast information will not be accurate enough to place the call near the apartment;

- his lawyer will use the PJ file info to defend his client;

- any witnesses claiming to have seen a man lurking near the apartment may be asked to give evidence and show their faces publicly;

- a 6ft man using a window to escape carrying a child will be demonstrated as impossible;

- CB may be able to prove he was not in the area at the relevant times;

- the indications of Eddie and Keela will be used by the defence;

Fülscher’s belief is that his client has been ‘cherry picked’ to be the scapegoat for Madeleine’s abduction.

“He is perfect for it: given up by his own mother for adoption, fostered to a family that has no contact with him, a history of criminal activity, drug taking and sex acts in front of children.

The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place. Could HB have been a plant to extract a confession from CB - i.e they vaguely know each other from PDL, HB gets trafficking reduced sentence in return for informant and tracking down CB with a recorded conversation/confession?

Well, he is a known paedo not just exposing himself. He is also a convicted rapist with very sadistic tendencies. He has also confided in the dark web about his fantasies involving children. He will not escape so easily. Also BKA say they have evidence CB killed MM.

 

[C.greek]

IF (a HUGE IF) Christian B is charged with M’s disappearance, the probabilities are:
.
- that he will plead not guilty;

- there will be no information on the phone call made to him;

- there will be no evidence that the phone which belonged to him was used by him that evening
the phone mast information will not be accurate enough to place the call near the apartment;

- his lawyer will use the PJ file info to defend his client;

- any witnesses claiming to have seen a man lurking near the apartment may be asked to give evidence and show their faces publicly;

- a 6ft man using a window to escape carrying a child will be demonstrated as impossible;

- CB may be able to prove he was not in the area at the relevant times;

- the indications of Eddie and Keela will be used by the defence;

Fülscher’s belief is that his client has been ‘cherry picked’ to be the scapegoat for Madeleine’s abduction.

“He is perfect for it: given up by his own mother for adoption, fostered to a family that has no contact with him, a history of criminal activity, drug taking and sex acts in front of children.

The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place. Could HB have been a plant to extract a confession from CB - i.e they vaguely know each other from PDL, HB gets trafficking reduced sentence in return for informant and tracking down CB with a recorded conversation/confession?

Oh and you are wrong about HB. His sentence was NOT reduced because he gave information about CB. We have discussed this at length and I have translated all relevant Greek police documents plus the legal decisions in Greece which allowed during that period the release of prisoners to free up space in prisons.

 

[axelcruze]

Oh and you are wrong about HB. His sentence was NOT reduced because he gave information about CB. We have discussed this at length and I have translated all relevant Greek police documents plus the legal decisions in Greece which allowed during that period the release of prisoners to free up space in prisons.

A higher level decision perhaps, I'm sure The planning of this was in play already when HB was sitting in a cell, you would be naive to think anything other, and we will see FF discuss this furher (or further lol) if it comes to trial.

 

[axelcruze]

Oh and you are wrong about HB. His sentence was NOT reduced because he gave information about CB. We have discussed this at length and I have translated all relevant Greek police documents plus the legal decisions in Greece which allowed during that period the release of prisoners to free up space in prisons.

Because you have discussed it at length means little other than you have discussed it at length, it does not mean you have found the answer you are looking for and it does not mean a great deal at the moment. Translating Police files does not mean you have the notes attached to those files. We will see this discussion further if it comes to trial. As far as we can see, we are working with the same level of detail about this case that we had in june/July and HCW is not giving anymore.

The Mcanns\tapas\SY don't want this to go to trial, it's clear they want a continuous missing person or an ending that they would prefer.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Because you have discussed it at length means little other than you have discussed it at length, it does not mean you have found the answer you are looking for and it does not mean a great deal at the moment. Translating Police files does not mean you have the notes attached to those files. We will see this discussion further if it comes to trial. As far as we can see, we are working with the same level of detail about this case that we had in june/July and HCW is not giving anymore.

The Mcanns\tapas\SY don't want this to go to trial, it's clear they want a continuous missing person or an ending that they would prefer.

How do you know that? Why should the MC's NOT want to know, what happened to their daughter?

Don't you think, that this is a very inhuman statement, that indicates that all the persons you have mentioned are involved in the disappearance?

 

[C.greek]

Because you have discussed it at length means little other than you have discussed it at length, it does not mean you have found the answer you are looking for and it does not mean a great deal at the moment. Translating Police files does not mean you have the notes attached to those files. We will see this discussion further if it comes to trial. As far as we can see, we are working with the same level of detail about this case that we had in june/July and HCW is not giving anymore.

The Mcanns\tapas\SY don't want this to go to trial, it's clear they want a continuous missing person or an ending that they would prefer.

We did find the answer: HB was released earlier because this is how the system works in Greece AND he made that phone call to OG AFTER he was released. There is nothing more to it.

Also you seem to point the finger to the tapas group and the parents based on no evidence.

 

[Anxala]

The Mcanns\tapas\SY don't want this to go to trial, it's clear they want a continuous missing person or an ending that they would prefer.

I have no idea if ^above is the case or not, but what's most important is that what they collectively (and we're speculating here) might want/not want should and will have absolutely no bearing on or impact upon either the progress or the outcome of this investigation.

That's all that counts for me and presumably also for anyone who just wants to see this case put finally and decisively and unambiguously to bed.

 

[tedtink]

IF (a HUGE IF) Christian B is charged with M’s disappearance, the probabilities are:
.
- that he will plead not guilty;

- there will be no information on the phone call made to him;

- there will be no evidence that the phone which belonged to him was used by him that evening
the phone mast information will not be accurate enough to place the call near the apartment;

- his lawyer will use the PJ file info to defend his client;

- any witnesses claiming to have seen a man lurking near the apartment may be asked to give evidence and show their faces publicly;

- a 6ft man using a window to escape carrying a child will be demonstrated as impossible;

- CB may be able to prove he was not in the area at the relevant times;

- the indications of Eddie and Keela will be used by the defence;

Fülscher’s belief is that his client has been ‘cherry picked’ to be the scapegoat for Madeleine’s abduction.

“He is perfect for it: given up by his own mother for adoption, fostered to a family that has no contact with him, a history of criminal activity, drug taking and sex acts in front of children.

The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place. Could HB have been a plant to extract a confession from CB - i.e they vaguely know each other from PDL, HB gets trafficking reduced sentence in return for informant and tracking down CB with a recorded conversation/confession?

"The drunken bar conversation with HB exactly 10years after the event seems highly coincidental. how do we know this took place."

It was reported that the conversation took place in 2008 not 2017 (10 years later)

"Busching made a statement to police claiming Brueckner, 43, told him at a kite festival in Orgiva, Spain in 2008 that he played a part in the 2007 abduction."

Maddie McCann key witness says prime suspect should stay 'in jail for long time'

Let's not forget HB and MS testimonies helped lead to the rape conviction too, so they were credible enough witnesses for CB to be found guilty of that.
HB and MS wouldn't have even been aware of the forensic evidence (CB's hair) before they went to LE.

Unless of course the clever cat planted the hair!

JMO.

 

[redplanet]

I wonder if the Sun is garbling things here (wouldn't be the first time...).
Near the start of the article it says:
A KEY Madeleine McCann case witness has sensationally identified suspect Christian B as the man she saw acting suspiciously outside the McCanns’ apartment.

When shown a picture of the paedophile, the British woman — quizzed at the time of the abduction — said: “That’s the man I saw.”
[...]
The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007

So it wasn't necessarily after the abduction that she observed the suspicious behaviour - she observed it earlier & reported it very soon after the news about MM came out, then later still she was shown the photo & stated that it showed the man she'd seen.

Now putting that together with the Sun's other statement later in the same article:

The second woman saw the image in 2007, and also confirmed it was a man she had seen behaving bizarrely in the days after Madeleine went missing.

All it needs is a comma after 'bizarrely' to make it read quite differently:

The second woman saw the image in 2007, and also confirmed it was a man she had seen behaving bizarrely, in the days after Madeleine went missing.

This would now mean that her confirmation - not her observation - was made in the days after M went missing (i.e. when the witness was questioned, just like the first witness).

Sorry about the long-windedness! I'm just trying to explain that 'in the days after' could refer to 'also confirmed' rather than 'she had seen'.

As far as I can find the only nanny who reported an observation which happened after 3rd (5th/6th) was reportedly CP. The Sun's claim that she matched her observation with a photo of CB is nonsense. How do they jumble things up so much? The other paper claiming she was shown a photo of CB and it did NOT match, might be true. All IMO.

 

[Sharkbite]

In the Daily Mail report on the same story, it says a witness who saw the photo in 2007 was a Nanny in the resort who looked after MM. Don't know if they mean Ms. Baker or someone else though.

A nanny who looked after Madeleine McCann in the holiday resort before she disappeared recognised a photo of Christian Brueckner when she was shown it by Portuguese police.

She was handed the photo and told his name just five days after the child disappeared

And it doesn't say in that report that they saw him behaving bizarrely, just that they were shown his photo by police and didn't recognise him. In some respects, sounds like they may be talking about the same witness but the accounts are different so either one of them has got their story wrong or they're talking about different people who were shown a photo of CB in 2007.
Madeleine witness says Brueckner IS the man she saw near apartment

An article from 2007 about this Nanny
Revealed: The nanny who could help clear the McCanns' name | Daily Mail Online

On the morning after Madeleine's disappearance it is believed she even told Portuguese police of a man she had seen acting 'suspiciously' around the apartments.

Intriguingly, Ms Baker revealed to one friend - spoken to by this newspaper - that she told Portuguese police of a man she saw acting strangely near the apartments in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.

The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

They were all linked to the seven holidaymakers who had eaten in the resort's tapas restaurant with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

Do we know the names of the 4 transferred staff?

 

[redplanet]

An article from 2007 about this Nanny
Revealed: The nanny who could help clear the McCanns' name | Daily Mail Online

On the morning after Madeleine's disappearance it is believed she even told Portuguese police of a man she had seen acting 'suspiciously' around the apartments.

Intriguingly, Ms Baker revealed to one friend - spoken to by this newspaper - that she told Portuguese police of a man she saw acting strangely near the apartments in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.

The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

They were all linked to the seven holidaymakers who had eaten in the resort's tapas restaurant with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

Do we know the names of the 4 transferred staff?

In nanny CB statements is no mention of any suspicious man However she was amongst a small group of nannies approached by a man in a white van see statement of nanny KM. That man I think was traced.
TRANSLATIONS

 

[mrjitty]

In nanny CB statements is no mention of any suspicious man However she was amongst a small group of nannies approached by a man in a white van see statement of nanny KM. That man I think was traced.
TRANSLATIONS

This shows two major issues with all of this

1. The tabloids are utterly unreliable as sources.

2. Some of the witnesses collaborated with the private detectives in parallel to the official investigation. Who knows what evidence contamination took place. So like you, I would rely on their official statements rather than potentially unreliable material shared with the tabloids later.

 

[redplanet]

An article from 2007 about this Nanny
Revealed: The nanny who could help clear the McCanns' name | Daily Mail Online

On the morning after Madeleine's disappearance it is believed she even told Portuguese police of a man she had seen acting 'suspiciously' around the apartments.

Intriguingly, Ms Baker revealed to one friend - spoken to by this newspaper - that she told Portuguese police of a man she saw acting strangely near the apartments in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.

The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

They were all linked to the seven holidaymakers who had eaten in the resort's tapas restaurant with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

Do we know the names of the 4 transferred staff?

If they moved the nannies who cared for the group's children that would be CB, SP, SV, and the other 2 to be sleuthed from lists in the files.

 

[Sharkbite]

If they moved the nannies who cared for the group's children that would be CB, SP, SV, and the other 2 to be sleuthed from lists in the files.

CP was sent to Greece, and about 10 weeks later fired. So thats one for sure

Maybe not worth mentioning but SV's middle name is Maria and she's from the UK.

 

[Monic]

CP was sent to Greece, and about 10 weeks later fired. So thats one for sure

Maybe not worth mentioning but SV's middle name is Maria and she's from the UK.

And that Maria is a girlfriend from CB?

 

[tedtink]

DBM