Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #22

[redplanet]

Red, could you tell me whether this is correct:
- May 27; GM hired the scenic. Registered km: 3114.
- June 3rd; GM prolonged the contract. Registered km: 3864. That makes 750 km in a week time.

- July 3rd; GM prolonged again. Registered km: 5864. That makes 2000 km driving in a month time.

- PJ took possession of the scenic on(?) August 2nd. Registered km: 5865
- August 2nd; Registered km: 5865
- 06+07 August; UK dogs
- 1st Sep; registered km: 5866. That makes 1 km in a month time (!) For how long did the car remain impounded?

- 1st Sep; registered km: 5866.
- 23rd Sep; registered km: 14443. That makes more than 8500(!) km in three weeks time!
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/rentedcars.jpg

IMO the actual km figures for the 2 boxes representing 02 Aug, and for the 2 boxes representing 01 Sept, were not available, so simply ignore those 4 boxes. Then the km for the whole rental from late May to late Sept makes sense. Documents here:
P.J. POLICE FILES: CAR RENTAL CONTRACTS

 

[redplanet]

Eddie walked past the McCann's car three times, and was called back three times before alerting. In the files the PJ spokesman says the same about the search in 5a. How the dog is called back to places he has ignored before alerting. The dogs spent a lot more time in 5a... That imo is why they alerted only to 5a

But Eddie also receives directions from the handler where to search, inside 5B, 5D, 5H, and 4G.

 

[Dave55]

Meh

Back home we have two kinds of dogs working airports - drugs and food.

The handlers lead them specially to bags/people they want to check, and encourage the dog to make multiple attempts.

The dog does not alert unless it hits on something. A huge amount of work goes into training them. It would be pointless if they gave false alerts based on cues from the handler.

Eddie found nothing of any use in Luz and nothing in Jersey... How many times has he found evidence used in court... Very very few times

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

Well there have been a few, that we know and discuss on here, it's just crazy, to vanish in to thin air, but there are definitely people that know what happened

Sometimes there aren't. Example - Some "special" suicide cases. Also if the killer (and only one to know about the crime) did already died. And there are even stuff like the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.

 

[redplanet]

Eddie found nothing of any use in Luz and nothing in Jersey... How many times has he found evidence used in court... Very very few times

In NI how was the body of AH found? Was that Eddie?

 

[Lilly b]

Sometimes there aren't. Example - Some "special" suicide cases. Also if the killer (and only one to know about the crime) did already died. And there are even stuff like the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.

Yes, I get that, but not with young children, and if only the killer knows, it's whether they can keep it to themselves for the rest of their life, I would say, and speaking from experience, most criminals blab to someone about what's happened, but not all, where I live there was a murder, many years ago, not mentioning any names though, and he is still in prison, and won't say what's been done with the body (it isn't a child)
I was a victim of crime once, and the other person was found as her friend went to the police, turns out they had fallen out, so she dobbed her in

 

[Anxala]

Oh, and finally to close the “dog” question. What is the failure rate on these dogs who “don’t lie”. Could it be that UK dogs are not used to a smell “palette” in a foreign country and are more easily confused? Could dead rodents or creepy-crawlers throw them off?

Dog handler Grime wrote in his report “In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal case searches the dog (Eddie, the cadaver dog) has never alerted to meat based and specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly, the dog has never alerted to ‘road kill’, that is any other dead animal.”

The F.B.I. have rated the combination of Grime the dog handler and Eddie the cadaver dog as “two of the best in the law enforcement specialty of canine forensics, able to find evidence everyone else missed.”

Those are direct quotes.

 

[redplanet]

5A, 5B, 5D, 5G, all were inspected by Eddie. He alerted at the exact flat where the BKA now believes there had been a dangerous criminal intruder. It follows IMO that what Eddie detected at 5A is likely to have been caused by whatever that intruder did there. It has absolutely nothing to do with any doctors, it has everything to do with a criminal intruder, IMO.

 

[redplanet]

BTW HCW has never attempted to discredit the UK EVRD. When asked he carefully avoids responding (source: australian podcast).

 

[peanutJelly]

BTW HCW has never attempted to discredit the UK EVRD. When asked he carefully avoids responding (source: australian podcast).

Maybe his theory is also that MM died in the apartment?

 

[redplanet]

IMO HCW has indicated they do not have any "direct evidence" that the suspect "filmed" this crime. Is it possible however that they have indirect evidence that he filmed it? Here I am not talking about hearsay or accusations by other criminals. I mean this: have they found an actual camera which the suspect possessed in 2007?

 

[Anxala]

Just to say, I get quite agitated (aka enraged!) at the attempts on here and elsewhere to try and dismiss the Eddie and Keela's findings. Two amazing, highly trained, highly rated, highly specalised, cadaver and CSI dogs.

The suggestion that they were somehow confused or giddily influenced by their trainer (in the hope of what, a doggy treat?!), while carrying out their professional MM-related searches, is seriously insulting to both Grime's professionalism and his nurtured dog 'smell' skills.

Whoever may else have lied, the dogs absolutely did not.

 

[SuperdadV8]

IMO HCW has indicated they do not have any "direct evidence" that the suspect "filmed" this crime. Is it possible however that they have indirect evidence that he filmed it? Here I am not talking about hearsay or accusations by other criminals. I mean this: have they found an actual camera which the suspect possessed in 2007?

Could be an issue of interpretation. It could be a statement in the way, that there is no direct evidence, that "HE" filmed something, they probably have!

I found that article, that was new to me and in my opinion, the argumentation seems to be pretty interesting, because it can be interpreted into lots of possibilities, due to the direct interest im MM.

Child man 'was trying to find Madeleine'

 

[Dlk79]

Maybe his theory is also that MM died in the apartment?

I still think it's a possibility and one that 'might' explain the alerts.

Found another interesting article on the development of cadaver scent.

"The foul odour of decomposition may simply read as putrid to humans, but to our animal friends, a wealth of information can be determined by the scent of a corpse. The process of decomposition starts 4 minutes after death, but it usually takes several hours before it becomes noticeable to humans. Research conducted in forensic entomology (the study of insects and other arthropods for criminal matters) determined that scent, or the detection of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), is a significant factor in drawing insects, like blowflies, to a corpse. They can detect the scent of death in the air in a matter of minutes."

Emerging Research on the Scent of Death

 

[SuperdadV8]

Could be an issue of interpretation. It could be a statement in the, that there is no direct evidence, that "HE" filmed something, they probably have!

I found that article, that was new to me and in my opinion, the argumentation seems to be pretty interesting, because it can be interpreted into lots of possibilities, due to the direct interest im MM.

Child man 'was trying to find Madeleine'

Even adult women and dogs....

Pensioner caught with child stash says he was looking for Madeleine McCann

 

[redplanet]

DBM

I still think it's a possibility and one that 'might' explain the alerts.

Found another interesting article on the development of cadaver scent.

"The foul odour of decomposition may simply read as putrid to humans, but to our animal friends, a wealth of information can be determined by the scent of a corpse. The process of decomposition starts 4 minutes after death, but it usually takes several hours before it becomes noticeable to humans. Research conducted in forensic entomology (the study of insects and other arthropods for criminal matters) determined that scent, or the detection of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), is a significant factor in drawing insects, like blowflies, to a corpse. They can detect the scent of death in the air in a matter of minutes."

Emerging Research on the Scent of Death

I still think it's a possibility and one that 'might' explain the alerts.

Found another interesting article on the development of cadaver scent.

"The foul odour of decomposition may simply read as putrid to humans, but to our animal friends, a wealth of information can be determined by the scent of a corpse. The process of decomposition starts 4 minutes after death, but it usually takes several hours before it becomes noticeable to humans. Research conducted in forensic entomology (the study of insects and other arthropods for criminal matters) determined that scent, or the detection of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), is a significant factor in drawing insects, like blowflies, to a corpse. They can detect the scent of death in the air in a matter of minutes."

Emerging Research on the Scent of Death

Four minutes.
TY dlk79.
HCW would be 100% aware of this IMO, as he has access to the expertise of multiple BKA Leichnspürhunde handlers.

 

[misty48]

I still think it's a possibility and one that 'might' explain the alerts.

Found another interesting article on the development of cadaver scent.

"The foul odour of decomposition may simply read as putrid to humans, but to our animal friends, a wealth of information can be determined by the scent of a corpse. The process of decomposition starts 4 minutes after death, but it usually takes several hours before it becomes noticeable to humans. Research conducted in forensic entomology (the study of insects and other arthropods for criminal matters) determined that scent, or the detection of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), is a significant factor in drawing insects, like blowflies, to a corpse. They can detect the scent of death in the air in a matter of minutes."

Emerging Research on the Scent of Death

That raises the question as to why insect life isn't also attracted to remnant cadaver scent 3 months later in the same way a cadaver dog is. Do the odours differ?

 

[tedtink]

That raises the question as to why insect life isn't also attracted to remnant cadaver scent 3 months later in the same way a cadaver dog is. Do the odours differ?

Insects are attracted to the corpse (meat) (among other things) through the detection of cadaver scent. IMO the scent would need to be VERY strong if a corpse was not in situ for insects to stay around.
A faint smell would originally draw them in but in that case they would be able to lay eggs on the corpse.

Interesting you say that as in an old property where I once worked a rat had died in a cavity wall. The stench was horrific and because the flies couldn't locate the dead rat, they layed eggs on the floor, close to the smell resulting in the emergence of hundreds of maggots.

 

[Dlk79]

Four minutes.
TY dlk79.
HCW would be 100% aware of this IMO, as he has access to the expertise of multiple BKA Leichnspürhunde handlers.

Another interesting point is mentioned in Martin Grime's report when he talks about Eddie's alert to cadaver scent near the cupboard -

“What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area. If there isn’t a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner.”

So, what he's saying is the scent isn't actually sitting on something like a blood stain or piece of DNA would be. But because the scent has been in that apartment, it is still in the air and the air flow is just pushing it to towards an area with the least air flow, so that the smell concentrates there. A cupboard which is far from a window or door being a logical place it would collect and get trapped.

There's the possibility therefore IMO, that the origin of the scent wasn't even in the parent's room, but in MM's room. The sheets that MM lay on were not in the room by then, so all the dog is possibly picking up is residual scent left in the air, which by then could have spread everywhere given the traffic going on around the apartment in the prior weeks.

 

[C.greek]

Just to say, I get quite agitated (aka enraged!) at the attempts on here and elsewhere to try and dismiss the Eddie and Keela's findings. Two amazing, highly trained, highly rated, highly specalised, cadaver and CSI dogs.

The suggestion that they were somehow confused or giddily influenced by their trainer, while carrying out their professional MM-related searches, is seriously insulting to both Grime's professionalism and those dog 'smell' skills.

Whoever may else have lied, the dogs did not.

I get what you are saying but we need to remember that these dogs (and all professional CSI dogs) do make mistakes. Their accuracy is not 100% and as far as i've understood they cannot be used as evidence in court unless corroborated with other evidence.