Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #22

[Dave55]

After Luz grime retired from the police force and opened hiss own consultancy. He used the video of the dogs in Luz to secure a contract with Jersey police for just short of 100k......where his dog found nothing of any use....including of course the famous coconut.

in Luz grime said the alerts had to be supported by physical evidence to be evidential. He has now changed hsi mind and said they can be supported by anectdotal evidence...see his white paper. this change of mind has resulted in two or three lucrtative appearances in US courts.

 

[Dave55]

This was 2014 when they did not have the information about CB that BKA has. If HCW brings CB to court we don't know what will happen with the dog alerts. I however doubt it since from what HCW has been saying, that we don't know the exact day that MM was killed(IMO this means either late on the 3rd or early on the 4th of May) I don't think they are moving to the direction of death in the apartment.

SY are treating this case as a missing person...which suggests what they think of the alerts

 

[Anxala]

The dogs would be assessed in that light, if indeed they are important to HCWs case.

My impression, from what HCW has said to date. is that very little 5A-related is of much/if any importance to his investigation.

He (from memory, and correct me if I'm wrong) has said that he knows CB abducted MM, he knows how she died, and that he believes the time lapse between the two occurrences was not long.

All that implies that whatever happened, happened elsewhere.

Which is why, for me, at least, it's impossible to make any real sense of anything 5A-related, not knowing what HCW knows/regards as conclusive evidence.

 

[C.greek]

My impression, from what HCW has said to date. is that very little 5A-related is of much/if any importance to his investigation.

He (from memory, and correct me if I'm wrong) has said that he knows CB abducted MM, he knows how she died, and that he believes the time between the two occurrences was not long.

All that implies that whatever happened, happened elsewhere.

I agree. Just a small correction: HCW has never mentioned that CB abducted MM.

 

[Nikolai_ff]

Eddie and keela was there in August, and many many people had been in the apartment, so make of it what you will
Now when this year they was searching his previous addresses and the under ground area, with the allotments, aparantly the dogs barked, but we have not had any info from those digs yet, whether they found anything or not

How the hell could there have been ANY smell months afterwards?

 

[C.greek]

After Luz grime retired from the police force and opened hiss own consultancy. He used the video of the dogs in Luz to secure a contract with Jersey police for just short of 100k......where his dog found nothing of any use....including of course the famous coconut.

in Luz grime said the alerts had to be supported by physical evidence to be evidential. He has now changed hsi mind and said they can be supported by anectdotal evidence...see his white paper. this change of mind has resulted in two or three lucrtative appearances in US courts.

I think we should mention that Eddie gave a false alert to the coconut in Jersey. And that in this case both dogs did not have their license.

 

[tedtink]

My impression, from what HCW has said to date. is that very little 5A-related is of much/if any importance to his investigation.

He (from memory, and correct me if I'm wrong) has said that he knows CB abducted MM, he knows how she died, and that he believes the time lapse between the two occurrences was not long.

All that implies that whatever happened, happened elsewhere.

Despite the 'abduction' suggestion spin that this paper and other media outlets has put on HCW's comments, this is what HCW actually said.....

Mr Wolters told The Times: “My private opinion is that he relatively quickly killed the girl, possibly abused her and then killed her."

Madeleine McCann ‘died soon after abduction’ | News | The Times

 

[Dlk79]

My impression, from what HCW has said to date. is that very little 5A-related is of much/if any importance to his investigation.

He (from memory, and correct me if I'm wrong) has said that he knows CB abducted MM, he knows how she died, and that he believes the time lapse between the two occurrences was not long.

All that implies that whatever happened, happened elsewhere.

HCW has never mentioned an abduction or kidnapping, all he's talked about is a murder (and possibly abuse). And his quote about it not being long was simply that she was "killed relatively quickly". All that can still fit a scenario of death being caused in 5A, as part of a botched abuse attempt.

 

[C.greek]

HCW has never mentioned an abduction or kidnapping, all he's talked about is a murder (and possibly abuse). And his quote about it not being long was simply that she was "killed relatively quickly". All that can still fit a scenario of death being caused in 5A, as part of a botched abuse attempt.

What speaks against this scenario, is HCW saying we don't know the exact day MM was killed.

 

[Anxala]

I agree. Just a small correction: HCW has never mentioned that CB abducted MM.

Christian Hoppe, director of Germany’s National Crime Agency has said “German police believed they had almost enough evidence to charge him (Brueckner) with Madeleine’s abduction and murder.

 

[Dlk79]

What speaks against this scenario, is HCW saying we don't know the exact day MM was killed.

Again, we've discussed that previously. It might mean that, or he might be saying that this concrete proof they have of CB killing MM does not give any proof of the date it happened. He was answering a question at the time about what proof they had placing CB in PDL specifically on the date of the 3rd.

 

[tedtink]

I think we should mention that Eddie gave a false alert to the coconut in Jersey. And that in this case both dogs did not have their license.

He didn't give a false alert.
He alerted to where bones HAD been buried, the builders threw away the bones before they layed the concrete.
The builders later ID'd the pelvic bone by comparing it to pics on the internet.
The dog didn't alert to the piece of coconut
He alerted to the smell around it.

 

[C.greek]

He didn't give a false alert.
He alerted to where bones HAD been buried, the builders threw away the bones before they layed the concrete.
The builders later ID'd the pelvic bone by comparing it to pics on the internet.
The dog didn't alert to the piece of coconut
He alerted to the smell around it.

It is out of topic now but can you please provide a link?

 

[Anxala]

What speaks against this scenario, is HCW saying we don't know the exact day MM was killed.

Exactly. And implicit in the above is an abduction.

 

[Dlk79]

Christian Hoppe, director of Germany’s National Crime Agency has said “German police believed they had almost enough evidence to charge him (Brueckner) with Madeleine’s abduction and murder.

He's not HCW though.

 

[tedtink]

It is out of topic now but can you please provide a link?

Google is your friend.
Just as it is when we want to discredit specialized methods that Law Enforcement Agencies use.

 

[C.greek]

Google is your friend

Haha it has not been up to now. All I have found is reports on the botched investigation and the coconut

 

[C.greek]

Google is your friend.
Just as it is when we want to discredit specialized methods that Law Enforcement Agencies use.

I do not agree with your point on discrediting specialised methods that LEA use. I am not discrediting them, I am quoting exactly what the dogs' handler said. It is not discrediting them if one says that the scent could have come from cross contamination. And LEA themselves are doubting some times the specificity and evidential use of the trained dogs. This is how science works, testing, discrediting, arguing and testing again. There are failures in the process and this does not mean that some methods do not work. I am part of a trial for canine detection of covid19. The dogs do not always get it right nor wrong!it is a constant trial and error process.

 

[Anxala]

Despite the 'abduction' suggestion spin that this paper and other media outlets has put on HCW's comments, this is what HCW actually said.....

Mr Wolters told The Times: “My private opinion is that he relatively quickly killed the girl, possibly abused her and then killed her."

That's still ambiguous though, isn't it? It doesn't at all rule out an abduction prior to the above scenario. Particularly when you combine it with his 'we don't know the exact day MM was killed'.

So, presumably, clearly not the evening of the 3rd May 2007 in 5A.

In short, the above implicitly implies abduction and taking MM to 'elsewhere' before killing her.

No wonder we're lost in space trying to make sense of things.

 

[tedtink]

I do not agree with your point on discrediting specialised methods that LEA use. I am not discrediting them, I am quoting exactly what the dogs' handler said. It is not discrediting them if one says that the scent could have come from cross contamination. And LEA themselves are doubting some times the specificity and evidential use of the trained dogs. This is how science works, testing, discrediting, arguing and testing again. There are failures in the process and this does not mean that some methods do not work. I am part of a trial for canine detection of covid19. The dogs do not always get it right nor wrong!it is a constant trial and error process.

I didn't mean you personally.