Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #23

[Anxala]

I tend not to believe these kind of articles. It makes it sound like lots is happening but they already spoke to these witnesses. Now there is a new push which supposed "experts" see as important?

Which experts?

It does have a whiff of 'Look! We're making good progress!' about it, in a countering the claims that nothing new of any significance has been found.

German and Portuguese investigators are to carry out new interviews of key witnesses in the Algarve who knew paedophile Christian Brueckner.

It's possible that their appeal has brought new 'people of interest' into the mix and they may be amongst those being (re)interviewed...

Prosecutors hope a new clue will give them what they need to directly question Brueckner about the case.

A new clue that's in their possession or just that they hope this new round of interviews will provide them with a new clue?

 

[Dlk79]

IIRC the situation as regards silence in interviews is similar the UK

The absolute right to silence has been watered down by law reform so that an adverse inference may be drawn at trial where the accused fails to mention a fact, being a fact which in the circumstances existing at the time the accused could reasonably have been expected to mention when so questioned, charged or informed, as the case may be

So while the no comment interview is still common, there are times when the accused can be expected to give an answer, if they want to rely on it at trial.

It is a long time since I looked at this, but I think one of the main points was to stop people fabricating alibi's at trial when they failed to mention the alibi during original inquiries.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

Absolutely, they have the same right to remain silent, what I'm wondering though is whether it is as common in Germany? In the UK, a defense case only has to raise enough doubts to a few random jurors. In Germany, you have to convince one specific person (the Judge) that your client is not guilty. And the judge will decide, based on the balance of probabilities as to whether they think the suspect is telling the truth or not.

So, with that in mind, surely a refusal to cooperate and answer questions at the interview stage is going to raise red flags immediately in the mind of the Judge. I suppose the question is: Would keeping quiet during the interview be more detrimental to a defense's case in Germany than it would be in the UK?

 

[mrjitty]

Absolutely, they have the same right to remain silent, what I'm wondering though is whether it is as common in Germany? In the UK, a defense case only has to raise enough doubts to a few random jurors. In Germany, you have to convince one specific person (the Judge) that your client is not guilty. And the judge will decide, based on the balance of probabilities as to whether they think the suspect is telling the truth or not.

So, with that in mind, surely a refusal to cooperate and answer questions at the interview stage is going to raise red flags immediately in the mind of the Judge. I suppose the question is: Would keeping quiet during the interview be more detrimental to a defense's case in Germany than it would be in the UK?

In theory no because that kind of reasoning isn't allowed.

 

[Dave55]

In theory no because that kind of reasoning isn't allowed.

Ive read about the law in germany and whilst at trial a negative inference can be drawn from silence in the Uk it should not be the case in germany. However judges do not have to reveal why they reach their verdict and according to what I have read individual judges do draw an inference

 

[Anxala]

So, with that in mind, surely a refusal to cooperate and answer questions at the interview stage is going to raise red flags immediately in the mind of the Judge?

Just to follow on from your chain of thought, I wonder what impact the manner in which CB has been publicly named and accused of abduction and murder, despite the absence of accompanying public evidence to support those charges, would have on how the judge would view CB's refusal (should that be the case) to cooperate?

Would s/he not have to acknowledge and take into account the 'unorthodox' 'trial by media' manner in which HCW conducted this investigation?

Again, just curious as to how things work legally in Germany.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Just to follow on from your chain of thought, I wonder what impact the manner in which CB has been publicly named and accused of abduction and murder, despite the absence of accompanying public evidence to support those charges, would have on how the judge would view CB's refusal (should that be the case) to cooperate?

Would s/he not have to acknowledge and take into account the 'unorthodox' 'trial by media' manner in which HCW conducted this investigation?

Again, just curious as to how things work legally in Germany.

The principles of german penalty law include the right of the suspect to remain silent or lie, from beginning of the investigations by the authorities until the sentence, made by the judges. According to the fact that this common LAW, the judges aren't allowed to consider that silence or lie in some way.

BUT, due to existing penalty ranges (usually fines up on to time in prison or ranges from 6 months up on to 5 years for example), the judges are usually allowed to consider coorporative behavior or a confession by sentencing on lower ranges.

In a murder case there no real penalty range, because the sentence means "for life", what usually means at least (!) 15 years in prison. So maybe even more, if special circumstances have been detected.

But a coorporative behavior from beginning of the trial or a early confession can rise the chances of being released after that 15 years on parole. Of course, together with other behaviors while being in prison, that show some habits, that may show approaches of the convict to be honestly interested in ways to rehabilitation.

 

[Dave55]

German judges are not supposed to hold the silence of a defendant against that person.225 In conclusion, there would appear to be few differences between the German and American systems arising from this body of law. A defendant or trial observer should keep in mind that a judge in the German system, who is focused on ascertaining all of the relevant facts, might look unfavorably on an individual’s silence because such silence is not customary. Unless a judge commits the error of explicitly stating he relied on such silence in reaching his verdict, however, there is no real way to discern a violation of this right. Of course, this difficulty is no different than in U.S. trials, since the ultimate basis for a verdict remains a mystery to all but the jury or, in some cases, the judge.


https://www.aepubs.eur.army.mil/Portals/18/docs/CLS-Germany.pdf

page 45/46

 

[Trivento]

I tend not to believe these kind of articles. It makes it sound like lots is happening but they already spoke to these witnesses. Now there is a new push which supposed "experts" see as important?

Which experts?

Can hear where you’re coming from here...hopefully at least something will be happening though and will just have to hope useful in some way or other.

 

[Trivento]

'I bought a campervan from Madeleine McCann suspect and police have seized it'

This is another new article..not really news...just revealing name of purchaser I think.

 

[tedtink]

'I bought a campervan from Madeleine McCann suspect and police have seized it'

This is another new article..not really news...just revealing name of purchaser I think.

Yet another purchaser?
That's odd - there are other reports that say BP bought the van and that it was seized from his scrapyard.
Madeleine McCann suspect went to extreme lengths to keep Portugal home secret

 

[redplanet]

'I bought a campervan from Madeleine McCann suspect and police have seized it'

This is another new article..not really news...just revealing name of purchaser I think.

Article says german police took the T3 to Germany for forensic tests. Presumably BKA have obtained a reference DNA profile from OG/PJ and would be looking in T3 for DNA traces which match? Probably also BKA would inspect the T3 with a german cadaver dog?

 

[redplanet]

Yet another purchaser?
That's odd - there are other reports that say BP bought the van and that it was seized from his scrapyard.
Madeleine McCann suspect went to extreme lengths to keep Portugal home secret

Maybe BP and PW were partners in scrapyard???? (that was a guess). Another thing is CB on the Vera trip reportedly did not own but was borrowing the T3 from someone else. BTW for future reference does anyone speak portuguese?

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

(...) BTW for future reference does anyone speak portuguese?

Of course I do !

Claro que sim !

 

[Trivento]

Madeleine McCann prosecutor says he's 'hopeful of clarifying her disappearance'

This is interesting language to use...”clarify her disappearance “

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

Madeleine McCann prosecutor says he's 'hopeful of clarifying her disappearance'

But Hans Christian Wolters says he does not have enough evidence to charge Christian B with her killing.

...

I told you guys ...

 

[C.greek]

'I bought a campervan from Madeleine McCann suspect and police have seized it'

This is another new article..not really news...just revealing name of purchaser I think.

Could this Peter W from Germany be the German drifter living in Portugal the BKA were interested to talk to as a POI in the summer?

Just a thought. (By the way I was under the impression that the T3 was destroyed in the scrapyard. If this is not the case and the BKA have it, it could even give them forensic evidence, though with so many years in between I am not holding my hopes up)

 

[C.greek]

Madeleine McCann prosecutor says he's 'hopeful of clarifying her disappearance'

But Hans Christian Wolters says he does not have enough evidence to charge Christian B with her killing.

...

I told you guys ...

No HCW does not say that.

 

[redplanet]

Could this Peter W from Germany be the German drifter living in Portugal the BKA were interested to talk to as a POI in the summer?

Just a thought. (By the way I was under the impression that the T3 was destroyed in the scrapyard. If this is not the case and the BKA have it, it could even give them forensic evidence, though with so many years in between I am not holding my hopes up)

The blue Bedford van used for 2006 diesel theft was later destroyed. The VW T3 Westphalia van was not destroyed.

 

[tedtink]

Could this Peter W from Germany be the German drifter living in Portugal the BKA were interested to talk to as a POI in the summer?

Just a thought. (By the way I was under the impression that the T3 was destroyed in the scrapyard. If this is not the case and the BKA have it, it could even give them forensic evidence, though with so many years in between I am not holding my hopes up)

The blue Bedford was seized and scrapped by LE as CB couldn't pay the fine for the diesel theft
BKA have the T3 but I read earlier in the investigation, reportedly, that no forensics were found - it had been a 'party vehicle' for years -
Plus HCW has said they have no forensic evidence.


Maddie McCann suspect sold his VW campervan in 2015 to a car scrapyard | Daily Mail Online

 

[tedtink]

"Four preliminary investigations are currently underway against Christian B. The child molester has several previous convictions and is serving a seven-year prison sentence for rape in the Hanover prison. The investigators still consider him suspect. "We hope that we can clarify the disappearance of Madeleine McCanns," said the spokesman for the Braunschweig public prosecutor, Hans Christian Wolters, on Monday."

Vermisste Maddie McCann: Ermittler planen neue Befragungen