Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #24

[Anxala]

Does anyone have a link to the most recent statement from HCW re his investigation? Apologies for not doing my own searching but the bit I did didn't really throw up anything reliable, date-wise.

Thanks in advance, if anyone can help here.

@Dlk79 - you raise some very interesting points. The embellishment over time by GM has always raised a confusing and questionable red flag for me.

 

[Trivento]

KM's book page 70

"Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his WATCH"

Which contradicts CM's (official spokesperson) announcement that none of the T9 were wearing watches that night.

Am wondering if any of them would have had a mobile with them at Tapas..can get the time from that if not wearing a watch.
Even though I wear a watch...if I'm out and about I generally find it easier to get time by pressing button on side of phone to get time display to appear..
imo...is very far fetched to think that out of 9 people...not one had a watch or device of some sort that would show the time.

 

[Dlk79]

Does anyone have a link to the most recent statement from HCW re his investigation? Apologies for not doing my own searching but the bit I did didn't really throw up anything reliable, date-wise.

Thanks in advance, if anyone can help here.

@Dlk79 - you raise some very interesting points. The embellishment over time by GM has always raised a confusing and questionable red flag for me.

I think this is the most recent one with direct quotes from HCW rather than re-hashes.

Maddie cops given dramatic new evidence against prime suspect Christian B

ETA: There was also this more recent story about the potential triple prosecution but nothing much to do with the MM investigation itself.

Madeleine suspect Christian B could face 'triple trial' over sex attacks

 

[Anxala]

I think this is the most recent one with direct quotes from HCW rather than re-hashes.

Maddie cops given dramatic new evidence against prime suspect Christian B

Many thanks, Dlk79.

From the link:

“We have gathered new evidence that adds further to the case we are building against our main suspect... I cannot disclose the type of evidence we have been given, it is not forensic I can tell you that but it is new circumstantial evidence which all adds to the working theory that he is the man responsible.”

Without wanting to be negative, HCW's 'which all adds to the working theory that he is the man responsible' doesn't really (IMO) inspire much confidence at this now rather late stage of an investigation that boldly named CB as an abductor/murderer at its commencement back in ? June 2020?

I really wonder if this investigation has actually moved forward in any significant way.

 

[Zuleika]

Deleted

 

[Trivento]

It might matter if CBs confession is significantly different to the witnesses statements.

Hard evidence would be needed if Tapas group accounts were being refuted by LE .
I'm not sure any CB confession should be taken as the only truth unless backed up by evidence....do we just assume everything a paedo/criminal such as CB might say is automatically correct ?...as opposed to accounts of some holidaymakers with no criminal record...

 

[tedtink]

Also, remember at this point (and possibly even still to this day), the entire Tapas group firmly believed the man JT saw around 9.15 was carrying MM away. So in his mind, the check he did (or didn't do) at 9.30 didn't really matter since they believed MM had already been taken by then. He might even have thought his account helped reinforce this probability by implying that the shutter was already up, and therefore nudging LE in what they thought was the right direction - to focus on Tannerman.

Really good posts Dlk, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
I agree that as time went on after Tannerman was believed by the T9 to be the abductor, that their statements evolved to confirm and justify this firm belief.
Like you say, it seems it's still a belief, 'to this day' as Tannerman is still prominent on the official MM website, which, to me is very misleading and almost mocks Redwoods 'moment of revelation'.
Why can't the T9 admit, they may have got it wrong? Because the cracks will start to show, the cracks that the PJ saw from day 1, but lead them in the wrong direction too - ie - wrongly blaming the parents!

Personally I think all the checks that night and other nights were just 'listening checks' and no visuals - As they had said, the T9 would replicate what Mark Warner reps did in other resorts, listening at windows.
MO said 'all's quiet' after his check, I think he may have stood outside, or just opened the patio door and stuck his head in.
KM stopped at the patio door and 'listened' @10pm (wasn't going to go in further) before going in after seeing the bedroom door open.
GM probably did go in for a pee, kids were quiet, door was nearly closed. If he did check MM there was more light in the room at that time (even though the shutters were down) when he said he saw her (looking beautiful), than when KM went in (when the shutters were up) She said it was dark and she couldn't make out if MM was in bed or not.
Like KM said, they avoided waking the children at all costs (not even turning the bedroom light on to see if MM was in her bed)

"Madeleine was lying thereon her left hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position we'd left her. For Gerry this became one of those images, I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, she's so beautiful................"

"At 10pm I went back to the apartment myself. I entered the sitting room via the patio doors........................and I stood there listening for a few seconds. All was silent. Then I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open quite wide........."

......." I glanced over at Madeleine's bed. I couldn't quite make her out in the dark..............I didn't switch on the light straight away. Force of habit, I suppose, taking care to avoid waking the children at all costs..............."

Madeleine by KM page 71-72

Perhaps GM ate his carrots but KM didn't

 

[Trivento]

She said it was dark and she couldn't make out if MM was in bed or not.

Can see point being made here...but should also consider reason KM couldn't "make her out " , could primarily have been because MM wasn't there.

 

[tedtink]

Just out of interest.
Has MM's 'Ward of Court' status expired as she would now be an 18 year old adult?
@mrjitty or anyone else know?
If so, would this mean no further applications can be made in Court re serving orders to obtain information on MM from Law Enforcement or other agencies?

 

[Dlk79]

Hard evidence would be needed if Tapas group accounts were being refuted by LE .
I'm not sure any CB confession should be taken as the only truth unless backed up by evidence....do we just assume everything a paedo/criminal such as CB might say is automatically correct ?...as opposed to accounts of some holidaymakers with no criminal record...

No, indeed. I think the recent debate concerns 'what if" HCW knows/believes something that disputes the Tapas group's account of events. It would certainly put him in an awkward position with regards explaining what he thinks had happened to the MM.

 

[Dlk79]

No, indeed. I think the recent debate concerns 'what if" HCW knows/believes something that disputes the Tapas group's account of events. It would certainly put him in an awkward position with regards explaining what he thinks had happened to the MM.

I meant to to type "to MM" there.

 

[kyndigs]

KM's book page 70

"Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his WATCH"

Which contradicts CM's (official spokesperson) announcement that none of the T9 were wearing watches that night.

‘By his watch’ is just a figure of speech and I doubt is literal, this expression is used a lot.

‘When did you arrive” 10;:45 by my watch.

 

[mrjitty]

Hard evidence would be needed if Tapas group accounts were being refuted by LE .
I'm not sure any CB confession should be taken as the only truth unless backed up by evidence....do we just assume everything a paedo/criminal such as CB might say is automatically correct ?...as opposed to accounts of some holidaymakers with no criminal record...

The point is this would only arise in a prosecution of CB - i.e. the opposite way round.

So it could be problematic for HCW if he wants to rely on confession evidence which Tapa's statements refute, while at the same time claiming the confession is evidence against CB

The defence will obviously claim that CB was just running his mouth and can't be believed.

 

[mrjitty]

Really good posts Dlk, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
I agree that as time went on after Tannerman was believed by the T9 to be the abductor, that their statements evolved to confirm and justify this firm belief.
Like you say, it seems it's still a belief, 'to this day' as Tannerman is still prominent on the official MM website, which, to me is very misleading and almost mocks Redwoods 'moment of revelation'.
Why can't the T9 admit, they may have got it wrong? Because the cracks will start to show, the cracks that the PJ saw from day 1, but lead them in the wrong direction too - ie - wrongly blaming the parents!

Personally I think all the checks that night and other nights were just 'listening checks' and no visuals - As they had said, the T9 would replicate what Mark Warner reps did in other resorts, listening at windows.
MO said 'all's quiet' after his check, I think he may have stood outside, or just opened the patio door and stuck his head in.
KM stopped at the patio door and 'listened' @10pm (wasn't going to go in further) before going in after seeing the bedroom door open.
GM probably did go in for a pee, kids were quiet, door was nearly closed. If he did check MM there was more light in the room at that time (even though the shutters were down) when he said he saw her (looking beautiful), than when KM went in (when the shutters were up) She said it was dark and she couldn't make out if MM was in bed or not.
Like KM said, they avoided waking the children at all costs (not even turning the bedroom light on to see if MM was in her bed)

"Madeleine was lying thereon her left hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position we'd left her. For Gerry this became one of those images, I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, she's so beautiful................"

"At 10pm I went back to the apartment myself. I entered the sitting room via the patio doors........................and I stood there listening for a few seconds. All was silent. Then I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open quite wide........."

......." I glanced over at Madeleine's bed. I couldn't quite make her out in the dark..............I didn't switch on the light straight away. Force of habit, I suppose, taking care to avoid waking the children at all costs..............."

Madeleine by KM page 71-72

Perhaps GM ate his carrots but KM didn't

I tend to agree with all this

And once legal jeopardy grew, stuff evolvoed.

IMO this might be a problem for HCW

 

[Dlk79]

German Madeleine McCann cops not spoken to parents year after naming suspect

 

[Denis R Tandib]

German Madeleine McCann cops not spoken to parents year after naming suspect

The theory on GM not checking does explain a lot.

Can anyone with legal knowledge shed any light on HCW’s strategy? I’m wondering if it’s the case that the Tapas’ accounts are causing him potential future conviction problems, is it better that they come forward to change their statements rather than HCW approaching them?

If it is the case that the statements are untruthful it’s going to be hard for anyone to come clean now. If it’s right, it’s a real mess. All JMO.

 

[tedtink]

The theory on GM not checking does explain a lot.

Can anyone with legal knowledge shed any light on HCW’s strategy? I’m wondering if it’s the case that the Tapas’ accounts are causing him potential future conviction problems, is it better that they come forward to change their statements rather than HCW approaching them?

If it is the case that the statements are untruthful it’s going to be hard for anyone to come clean now. If it’s right, it’s a real mess. All JMO.

I tend to think that they didn't intentionally lie, regarding their statements and still give them the benefit of the doubt here.
I lean more towards them having such a strong belief that Tannerman was the abductor, that they unconsciously adapted their statements as time went by.
Memory is malleable as memory and strong emotions are entwined. Our memories can construct entire scenario's and convince us of things that we actually didn't see, but possibly things we 'wanted' to see or believe. Nobody is immune from this especially where strong emotions, fear, and loss are involved.
I'd imagine by the time the rogatory interviews were done, the T9 had been able to discuss their recollections of the evening and had influenced each other to confirm, what was in their minds, a coherent story, which made sense to them as a group where Tannerman was concerned.
We shall see.................

JMO

 

[Sagwa]

HCW: In the end the only thing that counts is whether we have investigated comprehensively. That is the standard by which we must be judged.”
Team investigating Madeleine McCann suspect insist they will not be 'rushed'

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I tend to think that they didn't intentionally lie, regarding their statements and still give them the benefit of the doubt here.
I lean more towards them having such a strong belief that Tannerman was the abductor, that they unconsciously adapted their statements as time went by.
Memory is malleable as memory and strong emotions are entwined. Our memories can construct entire scenario's and convince us of things that we actually didn't see, but possibly things we 'wanted' to see or believe. Nobody is immune from this especially where strong emotions, fear, and loss are involved.
I'd imagine by the time the rogatory interviews were done, the T9 had been able to discuss their recollections of the evening and had influenced each other to confirm, what was in their minds, a coherent story, which made sense to them as a group where Tannerman was concerned.
We shall see.................

JMO

I agree, the situation was fluid in the early stages and they were likely thinking MM would turn up and were worried about neglect and reputation consequences - their motivations can be understood.

We really don’t know if anyone lied but IMO it’s plausible that they did and it explains some of the inaccuracies with statements and difficulties LE, PJ and HCW, have faced.

For the record, I am not blaming them for any involvement in the disappearance of MM. I think their intentions and those of the wider Tapas Group have been mostly good. I do think it’s naive though and perhaps arrogant to try and direct the LE in the first place. If this theory or any part of it is correct, I hope it doesn’t come back to bite them. Again, just the opinion of some guy on the internet!

 

[Anxala]

German Madeleine McCann cops not spoken to parents year after naming suspect

No surprises there really. The German investigation's focus is wholly on CB as abductor/murderer of MM, not the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Also, it would be the Met/OG, as the ongoing UK investigators, who would liaise with the family over any developments, not the Germans. And it's entirely possible that the Met is as much out of the loop as the McCanns.