Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #26

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  • #221
DM was American, not Australian and she was not a tourist but a resident of PDL. She lived alone in a cottage near the coast. The rape of the Irish woman did not take place in PDL, she wasn't a tourist either, she worked as a holiday rep in praia da rocha and lived in an apartment on her own.

Does it actually say the Italian lady was over 70 or just the UK one? It is possible they are talking about two different video clips rather than attempting to describe the same one. And why do you assume the other rapes take place in PDL, or that they're tourists, does it say that?

Ok, you are correct. It says the UK one is 70-80. On the interview it was like they were describing the same rape saw by the 2 (Helge and Manfred) but it might be that the 2 saw 2 diferent rapes on the same tape. At any rate for the tape to exist it would still mean that Helge did keep the tape on his car and later sold the car with the tape inside of it. Reasonable ?

I do assume that all took place on PDL because they ROB CB house and got the tape, so they had to be filmed on that time or prior to that ?
 
  • #222
DM was American, not Australian and she was not a tourist but a resident of PDL. She lived alone in a cottage near the coast. The rape of the Irish woman did not take place in PDL, she wasn't a tourist either, she worked as a holiday rep in praia da rocha and lived in an apartment on her own.

Does it actually say the Italian lady was over 70 or just the UK one? It is possible they are talking about two different video clips rather than attempting to describe the same one. And why do you assume the other rapes take place in PDL, or that they're tourists, does it say that?

Try to open the linked video on youtube, there should be an option to auto-translate to English ?
 
  • #223
I'm just posting because i want to come back later and say, look guys i did stated this and i was correct, or the other way, say sorry, i was wrong.

This ain't a competition you know :rolleyes:
 
  • #224
  • #225
This ain't a competition you know :rolleyes:

Yeah, but here at WS we can't do much on this case/regard, can we ? So we are all here just trying to figure out what is going on.

It's not like a case that we can actually help and search the "players" and try to do something for the case. Here we are at the "mercy" of HCW "secret evidences" and we are discussing about what they might be and if he have the correct suspect or not ...

Nothing that we will say here will change what HCW already have.

So what do you suggest for us to do ? Try to stop to discuss what we think ?
 
  • #226
This ain't a competition you know :rolleyes:

There are many cases that on-line people at forums can help, even on the start of MM case, when she went missing, people could do lots of stuff to help, but on this specific HCW/BKA allegations what can we do apart from attempting to guess if he is correct or not ?

We don't know what he have, we can't trust media, we don't have access to files, assuming no-one here did commit the crime and/or are related to CB (and because of that can't send anything of use to LEA) what more can we do ? What do you suggest for us to do here at WS regarding this speciffic matter of this speciffic case ?
 
  • #227
  • #228
There are many cases that on-line people at forums can help, even on the start of MM case, when she went missing, people could do lots of stuff to help, but on this specific HCW/BKA allegations what can we do apart from attempting to guess if he is correct or not ?

We don't know what he have, we can't trust media, we don't have access to files, assuming no-one here did commit the crime and/or are related to CB (and because of that can't send anything of use to LEA) what more can we do ? What do you suggest for us to do here at WS regarding this speciffic matter of this speciffic case ?

Cork, muzzle, sock and button, come to mind.
 
  • #229
Ok, you are correct. It says the UK one is 70-80. On the interview it was like they were describing the same rape saw by the 2 (Helge and Manfred) but it might be that the 2 saw 2 diferent rapes on the same tape.
Ok, so you are kinda making stuff up then. Only 1 of them is described as over 70. It sounds very much like they are talking about 2 different videos.
At any rate for the tape to exist it would still mean that Helge did keep the tape on his car and later sold the car with the tape inside of it. Reasonable ?
Is that stated in the court records or something they add in the commentary? I've seen a few different versions of what happened to the tape reported so would be interesting to know. I think one version said HB destroyed the tape and another said that HB left it in a van that was then scrapped. So, I really don't know which version is real (if any). But they obviously didn't plan on reporting it (at that time) and would have no reason to keep the tape all those years so I don't think that's any proof that it didn't ever exist. Especially now you concede that your main reason for disbelieving it (that what they described didn't match) was mistaken.

Anyway, the point is we know the DM attack happened and that the HB attack happened. So what is so unbelievable that there were other similar brazen attacks? I think CB's playground antics prove he is not especially concerned about taking risks to fulfill his sexual perversions.
 
  • #230
  • #231
"Just days after investigators said they were ‘100 per cent’ sure they had the right suspect, a former detective on the case has thrown a spanner in the works."

Not GA, but a former MET Detective giving his tuppence worth.

Huge flaw in Maddie McCann find

As expected. Realistic. Any experient detective would agree that something doesn't add right on that German method.

Difference is that I don't think it's to force CB to confess otherwise they wouldn't had trown to him that huge pile of crimes for him to confess and would focus on just one. I think method is just for general public to "agree" that CB is guilty.
 
  • #232
  • #233
So what do you suggest for us to do ? Try to stop to discuss what we think ?
The problem is you just keep repeating what you think over and over and over. We all already know what you think so why do you just keep flooding the thread with massive rambling posts that just repeat the same thing? You say your opinion and that you won't comment anymore and then 5 minutes later you're back making the exact same points. Then you wonder why people think you're trolling.

Your argument effectively boils down to:

HCW says he has evidence that CB killed MM, but HCW still hasn't charged CB or told us the evidence, therefore HCW is a liar and CB is actually innocent!

You don't offer any theory as to why BKA would go making these claims if they have no real evidence though. And as for profiling CB, the points you come up with are so one-eyed and frivolous, they just make no sense. Like the thing with the playground. You think CB was just having some kind of a laugh with his mate and that it's therefore some kind of proof that he wouldn't do anything really bad to a kid. And now with the rape tape, you believe it is all made up and that it is too risky and far fetched for CB to have done such a thing.

Even if BKA doesn't actually get enough evidence to prove beyond doubt that CB is guilty, that doesn’t automatically mean that CB didn't do it. With all the time that has gone by, and the inadequate handling of the initial investigation, getting any really strong and totally conclusive evidence to prove CB (or anyone else for that matter) is responsible for MM's disappearance is obviously going to be very difficult. The chance of getting any sort of forensics now is almost nil unless they find the body. No CCTV. No direct eyewitnesses. So lack of evidence does not necessarily mean lack of guilt even though you keep making that inference. What we do know is that there is apparently a confession, so before you get too excited about CB getting off (which it is very obvious that you want to happen), that alone needs some explanation first. What else BKA might have on him we can only guess at but you can't just assert they don't really have anything on the basis they haven't told you about it.

If you want my personal opinion regarding HCW/BKAs "tactics"... I think when they did the appeal, they probably already had enough evidence to conclude that CB was responsible but not enough that they could confidently guarantee a conviction. A good defence lawyer can wriggle out of all sorts and with all the public attention on this particular case, the last thing they'd want is to rush into it and see that happen 'knowing' that he was guilty. And they obviously felt confident enough to name him and put his face out there in the hope that it would trigger further evidence to go to trial with. People who may have seen him in PDL, people he may have made comments to about MM, places he was staying that might hold clues or where MM's body could be. I don't think it's any more complicated or sinister than that.

And in no way is it in BKA's interest to reveal their evidence publicly at this stage so I don't know what it is you find so hard to understand about that. Yes, it's a bit unusual to publicy accuse CB, BKA have even admitted they were taking an unusual approach in this appeal. But in that case you have to ask the question, why have they chosen to do it? And to me, the only logical explanation is they were already secretly confident they were going to charge him, the only real question was how much further evidence they could gather before they pull that trigger. Having exhausted their leads while working privately, their best chance to get more evidence is to do exactly what they have done by throwing it out to the public. If CB wasn't in jail, I think it's possible they might have pulled him in and charged by now but as HCW has said, there is no need to rush the case when he is going nowhere and they could still get more evidence. JMO.

I mean why would his tactic be to get the public to agree that CB is guilty? How/who does that help? The public aren't going to judge his case in court. What is BKA's motivation to even get involved in this case if they weren't absolutely confident he was guilty and they could get a conviction? They stand to get absolutely trashed if this all falls apart so what is their motive when they could just hand the evidence over to SY or PJ?

You're entitled to your opinion and to believe what you like, but at least make an effort to justify your theories with some proper logic and reasoning rather than just accusing everything of being lies.
 
  • #234
And at this point i will leave you guys discussing this matter untill something relevant is revealed.

<snip>

In the day & a half since that promise, there've been another 3000+ words (excluding quoted posts) from you, in multiple posts.

Did I miss the 'something relevant' being revealed?
 
  • #235
The problem is you just keep repeating what you think over and over and over. We all already know what you think so why do you just keep flooding the thread with massive rambling posts that just repeat the same thing? You say your opinion and that you won't comment anymore and then 5 minutes later you're back making the exact same points. Then you wonder why people think you're trolling.

Even if BKA doesn't actually get enough evidence to prove beyond doubt that CB is guilty, that doesn’t automatically mean that CB didn't do it. With all the time that has gone by, and the inadequate handling of the initial investigation, getting any really strong and totally conclusive evidence to prove CB (or anyone else for that matter) is responsible for MM's disappearance is obviously going to be very difficult. The chance of getting any sort of forensics now is almost nil unless they find the body. No CCTV. No direct eyewitnesses. So lack of evidence does not necessarily mean lack of guilt even though you keep making that inference. What we do know is that there is apparently a confession, so before you get too excited about CB getting off (which it is very obvious that you want to happen), that alone needs some explanation first. What else BKA might have on him we can only guess at but you can't just assert they don't really have anything on the basis they haven't told you about it.

If you want my personal opinion regarding HCW/BKAs "tactics"... I think when they did the appeal, they probably already had enough evidence to conclude that CB was responsible but not enough that they could confidently guarantee a conviction. A good defence lawyer can wriggle out of all sorts and with all the public attention on this particular case, the last thing they'd want is to rush into it and see that happen 'knowing' that he was guilty. And they obviously felt confident enough to name him and put his face out there in the hope that it would trigger further evidence to go to trial with. People who may have seen him in PDL, people he may have made comments to about MM, places he was staying that might hold clues or where MM's body could be. I don't think it's any more complicated or sinister than that.

And in no way is it in BKA's interest to reveal their evidence publicly at this stage so I don't know what it is you find so hard to understand about that. Yes, it's a bit unusual to publicy accuse CB, BKA have even admitted they were taking an unusual approach in this appeal. But in that case you have to ask the question, why have they chosen to do it? And to me, the only logical explanation is they were already secretly confident they were going to charge him, the only real question was how much further evidence they could gather before they pull that trigger. Having exhausted their leads while working privately, their best chance to get more evidence is to do exactly what they have done by throwing it out to the public. If CB wasn't in jail, I think it's possible they might have pulled him in and charged by now but as HCW has said, there is no need to rush the case when he is going nowhere and they could still get more evidence. JMO.

I mean why would his tactic be to get the public to agree that CB is guilty? How/who does that help? The public aren't going to judge his case in court. What is BKA's motivation to even get involved in this case if they weren't absolutely confident he was guilty and they could get a conviction? They stand to get absolutely trashed if this all falls apart so what is their motive when they could just hand the evidence over to SY or PJ?

You're entitled to your opinion and to believe what you like, but at least make an effort to justify your theories with some proper logic and reasoning rather than just accusing everything of being lies.
Indeed. Why would the Germans embarrass themselves ? They are not the Sun, they do not make money from dragging this out or inventing stuff to sell copies.
 
  • #236
You don't offer any theory as to why BKA would go making these claims if they have no real evidence though.

RSBM

That is why I don't buy into the GA conspiracy "search for a fall guy" approach.

We don't need that when we have organisational politics and observable reality.

IMO it is clear that BKA/HCW would never wade into the most notorious case in existence, and one fraught with international politics, unless they sensed the glory of cracking the case.

Maybe they have the goods. Maybe not. But IMO it must be true that they found the perfect suspect, and the more they investigated their theory, the more they found evidence pointing to guilt. So then after some years out of the spotlight, they felt they needed to go public to finally crack the case wide open.

But to me, this is where they've come off the rails. They don't have the breakthrough (yet).

That might be because they've been unlucky, or they have the wrong guy.

What I struggle with is the idea that if they just have some more months of sifting through the sands, they will crack it. I think they are stuck.

In the end, prosecution in this case requires ruling out alternative theories as real possibilities. I've always maintained that will be difficult where the defence has an 'oven ready' defence, promoted by PJ and a key suspect, promoted by JT

my 02c
 
  • #237
Indeed. Why would the Germans embarrass themselves ? They are not the Sun, they do not make money from dragging this out or inventing stuff to sell copies.

They wouldn't.

They sensed the glory of cracking the case. It would be the only reason to go public.
 
  • #238
I don't take MSM seriously, but here at WS we need to backup our claims with MSM sources. Sources that many times are just wrong.
Snipped for focus:
According to The Rules, it is because of safety for the victims family and WS members, even if MSM links are mostly tabloid "news"

There are of course MSM, that you can consider factual and reliable.
 
  • #239
The problem at this point is the absurdity of HCW's media strategy

He could have done a proper on the record press briefing to all major outlets, in which case we'd have primary reporting in both German and English, from reputable outlets, where we could reply on accurate quotes.

Instead he apparently have an exclusive to the Mirror.

This is getting beyond what one would consider appropriate/normal behaviour from an investigative body.
 
  • #240
DBM
 
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