Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #31

[Chiatos]

Or should that be a couple of months or even a couple of years ?

A couple of weeks to start with.....

 

[Niner]

Patience, Niner. We must wait for a couple of weeks.

Or should that be a couple of months or even a couple of years ?

I like Chiatos' answer better than the 2nd one...

 

[Davieson]

We shall see.

 

[Anxala]

Patience, Niner. We must wait for a couple of weeks.

Not for MM news though. @Niner is correct.

I just revisited that exclusive 3rd Sept Mirror link and this is what HCW said:

"Regarding all allegations except Maddie, we will issue a press release in about 2-3 weeks."

In short, all he's promised is an update on the state of play as regards the other alleged charges against CB.

 

[RichardKimble]

The Madeleine investigation isn't going any where any time soon imo, just listen and read to what Wolters has to say, over the the months , can't place CB in Luz on the night of 3/05/2007, no body, no forensics , 12 months ago , if we had a picture of Madeleine with the suspect we wouldn't have needed to make the appeal. Don't know if it will lead to an indictment in the end, its all there .

 

[Dave55]

Personally I think the plaintiff's lawyers botched the pleading.

They didn't produce evidence to show the allegations were untrue, or materially different to the public narrative. Rather they relied on being 'cleared' by the PJ archiving summary - however the Lisbon trial court and the appeal courts didn't accept that contention. So then through all the appeals they were stuck with the finding that the book was the same as the PJ files and the media narrative.

I think you are absolutely right. In the ECHR judgement it says amarals opinions were based on facts.... That to a great extent gives him the right to express them.. The truth is his opinions were based on lies

 

[enquirer6]

I think you are absolutely right. In the ECHR judgement it says amarals opinions were based on facts.... That to a great extent gives him the right to express them.. The truth is his opinions were based on lies

It says something when people charged with responsibility for making vital decisions of this kind can't even be bothered to read source material properly.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The archiving summary could not have been more clear that Madeleine was abducted from her bed in a criminal act by a stranger.

Can you please provide a reference for this?

 

[enquirer6]

Can you please provide a reference for this?

The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.

(Archiving dispatch)

---

ETA: PJ Inspector Joao Carlos placed Gerry at the tapas table when Kate raised the alarm that Madeleine was missing.

Again, if he was wrong to do so, those who insist he was wrong must point to commentary in the files that his absence was noticed and on efforts to find Gerry, even if he had just been visiting the gents.

Then again, they shouldn't bother looking. It doesn't exist.

 

[Niner]

Not for MM news though. @Niner is correct.

I just revisited that exclusive 3rd Sept Mirror link and this is what HCW said:

"Regarding all allegations except Maddie, we will issue a press release in about 2-3 weeks."

In short, all he's promised is an update on the state of play as regards the other alleged charges against CB.

That is what I meant - the other charges against CB. So 2-3 weeks, eh? So calculating it to about 9/24/22 is 3 weeks. Soon I hope!
Thanks!

 

[Denis R Tandib]

(Archiving dispatch)

---

ETA: PJ Inspector Joao Carlos placed Gerry at the tapas table when Kate raised the alarm that Madeleine was missing.

Again, if he was wrong to do so, those who insist he was wrong must point to commentary in the files that his absence was noticed and on efforts to find Gerry, even if he had just been visiting the gents.

Then again, they shouldn't bother looking. It doesn't exist.

GM was at the Tapas Bar from ~8:50pm until 10:00pm except for when he carried out his check on the children and spoke with JW on the way back.

No one reports seeing MM after they were signed out of the crèche at ~5:30pm - a window of 3 hours 20 minutes.

I don’t see how GM being at the Tapas Bar at 10:00pm proves that he and KM are innocent because of all the time prior to this when MM was in their care.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

So you don't think anything should be done to spare people, in the future, from the possibility of the horrendous and iniquitous ordeal meted out to the McCanns?

One way would be to give Law Enforcement in whatever European country your full cooperation from the outset. For example give a photo of a missing person, taken on the day they went missing and handed over on the day they went missing.

 

[Davieson]

It's common to quote chosen passages from the archiving dispatch to support people's own beliefs. In reality the crime against Madeleine wasn't identified.

"therefore we do not possess any minimally solid and rigorous foundation in order to be able to state, with the safety that is requested, which was or were the exact and precise crime(s) that was or were practised on the person of the minor Madeleine McCann - apart from the supposed but dismissed crime of exposure or abandonment - or to hold anyone responsible over its authorship."

P.J. POLICE FILES: LEGAL SUMMARY

Operation Grange decided that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger, not the Portuguese authorities. They have never revealed the evidence they relied on to reach that conclusion.

I think that decision was made even earlier than OG, by people in the Home Office, who were responsible for drawing up the terms of reference,
The fact that OG has special funding, controlled by the Home Office reinforces the impression that OG is very much a political project rather than a straight forward police investigation.

 

[tedtink]

GM was at the Tapas Bar from ~8:50pm until 10:00pm except for when he carried out his check on the children and spoke with JW on the way back.

No one reports seeing MM after they were signed out of the crèche at ~5:30pm - a window of 3 hours 20 minutes.

I don’t see how GM being at the Tapas Bar at 10:00pm proves that he and KM are innocent because of all the time prior to this when MM was in their care.

Wrong.
DP saw MM.

P.J. POLICE FILES: DAVID PAYNE ROGATORY

 

[enquirer6]

It's common to quote chosen passages from the archiving dispatch to support people's own beliefs. In reality the crime against Madeleine wasn't identified.

"therefore we do not possess any minimally solid and rigorous foundation in order to be able to state, with the safety that is requested, which was or were the exact and precise crime(s) that was or were practised on the person of the minor Madeleine McCann - apart from the supposed but dismissed crime of exposure or abandonment - or to hold anyone responsible over its authorship."

P.J. POLICE FILES: LEGAL SUMMARY

Operation Grange decided that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger, not the Portuguese authorities. They have never revealed the evidence they relied on to reach that conclusion.

The Portuguese prosecutors were (and no doubt remain) fully satisfied Madeleine was abducted from her bed in a criminal act by a stranger (to Madeleine) but they had no clue (at least at that juncture) who the stranger was.

They reached that conclusion DESPITE missing that the English dog-handler, on whose 'work' assumptions about the 'guilt' of the McCanns or their friends principally rests was freelance, incompetent and corrupt.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Wrong.
DP saw MM.

P.J. POLICE FILES: DAVID PAYNE ROGATORY

While he was there for 30 seconds at 6:30pm. Did he state that before his rogatory more than a year after the event?

 

[mrjitty]

The key point here is that the Supreme Court noted that the archiving summary is not a judicial ruling - so it did not rise to the level of proof that GA's book was incorrect.

This was the mistake the plaintiff's lawyers made. And because appeals are usually just on the legal aspects, they were stuck with the evidence as it was at the trial, including before the ECHR.

Personally I think it shows that the whole 'libel' action was a difficult lift compared to the UK jurisdiction - because how would they actually prove these aspects?

 

[tedtink]

While he was there for 30 seconds at 6:30pm. Did he state that before his rogatory more than a year after the event?

Obviously the PJ didn't ask that specific question when they originally interviewed him.

 

[enquirer6]

While he was there for 30 seconds at 6:30pm. Did he state that before his rogatory more than a year after the event?

We can't know, because Portuguese police don't (or didn't) record interviews verbatim.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Obviously the PJ didn't ask that specific question when they originally interviewed him.

That could be right. Establishing the last person to see MM other than her parents would seem to be an important fact. Perhaps this is genuinely bad police work by the PJ but I don’t think this would have been overlooked in the initial investigation - I can’t believe they would have not obtained this fact very early on.