Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #31

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  • #561
A year ago he said they had enough evidence to charge. Now he is saying he doesn’t know if they will charge him.

He has also said that the time the investigation is taking is to build a stronger case.

So he has either been untruthful or further investigation is weakening rather than strengthening the case.

I don't think he was necessarily being untruthful - it is just a reflection of varying standards.

For instance in the US, someone can be charged, arrested and imprisoned, awaiting a preliminary hearing, based only on the probable cause standard. The prelim would consider if there was a case to answer, even if the prospects of conviction were far from clear.

HCW was likely saying he had enough to charge, but prospects of success were too low to issue a charging decision (and a court may not support it). You see this also in the UK where law enforcement wants to charge someone, but CPS declines because the prospects at trial are too flimsy.

Many cases are borderline and prosecutors have a lot of discretion in this area.

My interpretation of what HCW has said is that they planned to build the case during the subsequent two years of the preliminary phase, but failed to find the further evidence they needed.
 
  • #562
The first quote is from October last year. The second is recent.

They are unequivocal. They are direct quotes. We know what he has said and my point stands: he has/is not stating the truth or the case is getting weaker.

“It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.”

“It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”


 
  • #563
I don't think he was necessarily being untruthful - it is just a reflection of varying standards.

For instance in the US, someone can be charged, arrested and imprisoned, awaiting a preliminary hearing, based only on the probable cause standard. The prelim would consider if there was a case to answer, even if the prospects of conviction were far from clear.

HCW was likely saying he had enough to charge, but prospects of success were too low to issue a charging decision (and a court may not support it). You see this also in the UK where law enforcement wants to charge someone, but CPS declines because the prospects at trial are too flimsy.

Many cases are borderline and prosecutors have a lot of discretion in this area.

My interpretation of what HCW has said is that they planned to build the case during the subsequent two years of the preliminary phase, but failed to find the further evidence they needed.
Below is a longer snip from the October 21 Mirror article. It’s clear he is saying they have enough evidence to charge, they just want to strengthen their case.

Hans Christian Wolters said: “It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.


“But it’s not just about charging him – we want to charge him with the best body of evidence possible.

“When we still have questions, it would be nonsense to charge rather than wait for the answers that could strengthen our position.

“That’s why we said we’ll investigate as long as there are leads or information for us to pursue. I’m not saying that what we have is insufficient now. But he’s in prison, so we don’t have this pressure on us. We have time on our hands.”

However, the prosecutors now admit they have no proof Madeleine is dead – despite authorities in Braunschweig telling the McCanns last year that they had “evidence” she is no longer alive.
 
  • #564
The first quote is from October last year. The second is recent.

They are unequivocal. They are direct quotes. We know what he has said and my point stands: he has/is not stating the truth or the case is getting weaker.

“It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.”

“It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”


IMO something emerged after Oct last year that led to caution, I've posted before not long ago in May on CH5 Wolters admits that CB cannot be placed in Luz on the night of 3/05/2007 , he also acknowledges that the phone he was interested in might be used by some one else, it might have changed hands .He also stated no evidence or forensics into the death of Madeleine .
 
  • #565
The first quote is from October last year. The second is recent.

They are unequivocal. They are direct quotes. We know what he has said and my point stands: he has/is not stating the truth or the case is getting weaker.

“It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.”

“It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”



See i think in both quotes he is clearly speaking in terms of the requirements of a german charging decision. He has a borderline case, and maybe his prospects just aren't good enough to charge (i am not sure of the exact wording in germany but from some googling it appears that conviction must be probable to indict).

IMO his comments go much more to the audience. What is his communications purpose?

In the first interview, he is talking up his prospects and justifying lack of action.

In the second interview he is talking down his prospects. This says to me they haven't been able to develop the investigation as they would have hoped in the intervening year.
 
  • #566
See i think in both quotes he is clearly speaking in terms of the requirements of a german charging decision. He has a borderline case, and maybe his prospects just aren't good enough to charge (i am not sure of the exact wording in germany but from some googling it appears that conviction must be probable to indict).

IMO his comments go much more to the audience. What is his communications purpose?

In the first interview, he is talking up his prospects and justifying lack of action.

In the second interview he is talking down his prospects. This says to me they haven't been able to develop the investigation as they would have hoped in the intervening year.
I guess it’s subjective then. IMO, any reasonable person reading the quotes from the first interview would be expecting a charge to be made, the only piece left hanging is when.
 
  • #567
I guess it’s subjective then. IMO, any reasonable person reading the quotes from the first interview would be expecting a charge to be made, the only piece left hanging is when.

I guess I am just more cynical - i saw it as a justification for lack of progress
 
  • #568
The first quote is from October last year. The second is recent.

They are unequivocal. They are direct quotes. We know what he has said and my point stands: he has/is not stating the truth or the case is getting weaker.

“It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.”

“It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”


As I understand its a newspaper report.

We don't know how accurate it is
 
  • #569
As I understand its a newspaper report.

We don't know how accurate it is
If you won't accept a direct quote in a newspaper, what will you accept?
 
  • #570
If you won't accept a direct quote in a newspaper, what will you accept?
Did Wolters say it in English.....no i dont trust a quote ina newspaper to be 100% reliable..particulary the US Sun
 
  • #571
Did Wolters say it in English.....no i dont trust a quote ina newspaper to be 100% reliable..particulary the US Sun
So presumably you also distrust almost everything said about Brueckner as well -it being subject to translation and all that
 
  • #572
Its in quotes attributed to Wolters.

“The investigation into Maddie is still ongoing. A conclusion is not in sight.

“I really can’t say how long the investigation will take. It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”



 
  • #573
Its in quotes attributed to Wolters.

“The investigation into Maddie is still ongoing. A conclusion is not in sight.

“I really can’t say how long the investigation will take. It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”



Not a lot of room for mis-traslation there -IMO
 
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  • #574
So presumably you also distrust almost everything said about Brueckner as well -it being subject to translation and all that
Wolters has said quite a lot in live interviews
.. That's what I trust... Everything else has a level of uncertainty
 
  • #575
Wolters has said quite a lot in live interviews
.. That's what I trust... Everything else has a level of uncertainty
So double standards then. Only believing what you choose to believe
 
  • #576
So double standards then. Only believing what you choose to believe
You think we should believe Amaral when he insists that "we talked about death by others, not murder"?

Or when he insists that Eddie had "no hesitation" in alerting to Gerry's blood on the ignition key of the Renault Scenic. (Except, of course, that Amaral insists that Eddie alerted to Madeleine's death scent)

Or that Mark Harrison re-directed the investigation to look for Madeleine's 'concealed and deceased remains' somewhere close to apartment 5a'?
 
  • #577
The first quote is from October last year. The second is recent.

They are unequivocal. They are direct quotes. We know what he has said and my point stands: he has/is not stating the truth or the case is getting weaker.

“It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.”

“It is also not certain whether an indictment can be made in the end.”


[URL

Not a lot of room for mis-traslation there -IMO
The point is that in such instances, we don't know what the questions were... so it is difficult to gauge what he means if we don't know to what he is responding. In a live interview, we get to hear the question... here not. No more no less...
 
  • #578
You think we should believe Amaral when he insists that "we talked about death by others, not murder"?

Or when he insists that Eddie had "no hesitation" in alerting to Gerry's blood on the ignition key of the Renault Scenic. (Except, of course, that Amaral insists that Eddie alerted to Madeleine's death scent)

Or that Mark Harrison re-directed the investigation to look for Madeleine's 'concealed and deceased remains' somewhere close to apartment 5a'?
So would you discount most of what you've heard about Brueckner as well? If not, why not ?
 
  • #579
So would you discount most of what you've heard about Brueckner as well? If not, why not ?
Brueckner has a string of criminal convictions including, most recently, and on DNA evidence, of the rape of an American woman for rape. He, also, has a profile that exactly matches that of someone capable of whatever befell Madeleine.

<modsnip>
 
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  • #580
So double standards then. Only believing what you choose to believe
Thats a pretty poor response... I have a background in science I understand how to assess evidence. If Wolters says it live on camera its certain he said it.. Not double standards
 
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