Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

[WestLondoner]

Just accept there is no crime scene photos of an open window .Why use the window when there was a perfectly serviceable and unlocked patio door.

Well yes, this is the thing. If I were doing this, or simply burgling the property or something, I can see how I might use the patio door to get in. But the obvious risk is the bit where you come back out again carrying the TV set, or a child, or whatever. You then walk all the way round the flat to your vehicle at the front, having somehow shut the patio door behind you while your arms were full. That stage is when you're at most risk of being seen and challenged - or simply remembered.

Instead, the logical way to do this that minimises the risk of being caught is to use the apartment itself to screen you from observation. So you enter the flat via the patio door, because you need a way in and you're watching it anyway. You'll enter as soon as possible after the check visit, as this gives you as much time as possible till the next visit in which to get away. You go to the front, you open the street door, you take the child, you let yourself out, put her in your car parked right there, close the street door and you drive off. The opportunity for you to be sighted is minimal, and even if you are, what you're seen doing is forgettably unremarkable.

The only reason I'd use a window would be to pass the TV set, child etc through it to my accomplice parked right outside. But I've still then got to do that patio door walk, in which I could then be seen.

What I do not see, in what is supposed to have happened, is any account that ties the facts at the scene together with any plausible way of removing a child. If MM was taken out through a patio door someone had nerves of steel, and I don't understand in that case why KM insisted she immediately sensed the window was open.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Very good question, in 2020 the appeals could be seen as joint cooperation asking for the same info, since then we know what Wolters has said, and its almost like the BKA have taken the lead, but if the BKA have shared and why wouldn't they given the appeals were on the same page, have Grange not seen anything that convinces them that the BKA have the right man. Then we have the PJ .All IMO of course.

have Grange not seen anything that convinces them that the BKA have the right man. I'm on this.

But then you refer Then we have the PJ. Have we?! Is there any hope of PJ doing anything palpable?! Any real collaboration if requested?! Many doubts...

 

[RichardKimble]

have Grange not seen anything that convinces them that the BKA have the right man. I'm on this.

But then you refer Then we have the PJ. Have we?! Is there any hope of PJ doing anything palpable?! Any real collaboration if requested?! Many doubts...

Perhaps Do Carmo is waiting for them to come around to his or the PJ thinking, when asked by Brunt (Sky) if they accepted the girl was abducted , the reply was we have to be prepared for different scenarios. Well to be honest no one can say it's been proven as yet what crime was committed.

 

[RichardKimble]

I don't think there is any evidence. Didn't OG say at one point that it was their professional opinion that MM had been abducted, or something to that effect?

Question to and answer by Rowley 2017.

Q: Andy Redwood, the first senior investigating officer, said in one interview his policy was to go right back to the beginning, accept nothing, but one thing you appear to have accepted is that this was an abduction. It’s in your first remit statement, it refers to ‘the abduction’, which rather suggests right from the start you had a closed mind to the possibility of parents’ involvement, an accident or Madeleine simply walking out of the apartment.

MR: Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction.

 

[Trivento]

Just accept there is no crime scene photos of an open window .Why use the window when there was a perfectly serviceable and unlocked patio door.

Bolded bit…^…I have never proposed otherwise , nor am aware of anyone who has.

<modsnip: Discuss the case, not other members>

 

[minazoe]

are we no longer talking about the girl claiming she is MM? I have to say she really looks like both of the parents and
I am still curious to see the DNA results. mOO

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Just accept there is no crime scene photos of an open window .Why use the window when there was a perfectly serviceable and unlocked patio door.

Not sure if he would be noticed through the patio door. Enter and exit...

 

[Anxala]

One reason might be trial support. Eg the uk based witnesses

But UK witnesses to what?

 

[Anxala]

Bolded bit…^…I have never proposed otherwise , nor am aware of anyone who has.

<modsnip: Discuss the case, not other members>

The thing is though, we have the PJ files. They're the only accurate reporting of what allegedly happened on that evening. There is no evidence to suggest or back up the McCann claim that the shutters were jemmied and the window was open. Wooosh. Even their own official spokesperson at the time had to backtrack on that claim.

<modsnip>

 

[enquirer6]

The thing is though, we have the PJ files. They're the only accurate reporting of what allegedly happened on that evening. There is no evidence to suggest or back up the McCann claim that the shutters were jemmied and the window was open. Wooosh. Even their own official spokesperson at the time had to backtrack on that claim.

<modsnip>

The (versions of!) the files online are not accurate. Or at least not completely so.

Mark Harrison wrote, simply, about the deployment of the freelance dog-handler, with his private working pets, Eddie and Keela, that two dogs were deployed. The (version of!) his report online now reads "Police" dogs. To be clear, Mark Harrison had nothing to do with the insertion of the word Police. While Ex-Police dogs would have been accurate, Harrison, simply wrote dogs.

Does anyone really believe that, in her rogatory interview, Jane Tanner veered into a lengthy non sequitur about her footwear, flipflops? I certainly don't. But the (version of) Jane's statement online has been weaponised against her.

5.6K views · 40 reactions | NOT SEEN AND NOT HEARD!!!! JANE TANNER'S FLIP FLOPS - MORE EVIDENCE THAT SHE NEVER PASSED JEZ WILKINS AND GERRY MCCANN Please listen to the clip attached to this post. Jane Tanner was wearing flip flops on the night Mad

NOT SEEN AND NOT HEARD!!!! JANE TANNER'S FLIP FLOPS - MORE EVIDENCE THAT SHE NEVER PASSED JEZ WILKINS AND GERRY MCCANN Please listen to the clip attached to this post. Jane Tanner was wearing flip...

www.facebook.com

 

[Trivento]

The thing is though, we have the PJ files. They're the only accurate reporting of what allegedly happened on that evening. There is no evidence to suggest or back up the McCann claim that the shutters were jemmied and the window was open. Wooosh. Even their own official spokesperson at the time had to backtrack on that claim.

<modsnip>

I see where you’re coming from , although the McCann’s accounts / statements regarding the windows / shutters are also part of the PJ files you mentioned .
If we are to acknowledge their statements have no value as not backed up with a photo or suchlike , then I guess a whole load of other statements or reports in the PJ files would also have to be treated same way if not backed up .

 

[Anxala]

I see where you’re coming from , although the McCann’s accounts / statements regarding the windows / shutters are also part of the PJ files you mentioned .
If we are to acknowledge their statements have no value as not backed up with a photo or suchlike , then I guess a whole load of other statements or reports in the PJ files would also have to be treated same way if not backed up .

I agree. The PJ files contain the testimony of all of the tapas 9. The PJ files recorded in detail what the Tapas 9 said.

We're agreeing that the PJ files are an accurate account of what the Tapas 9 said.

 

[mrjitty]

But UK witnesses to what?

They’d be necessary to establish the victim was in the apartment for example and then was missing.

Those elements need to be proven from the primary sources at trial.

 

[Trivento]

I agree. The PJ files contain the testimony of all of the tapas 9. The PJ files recorded in detail what the Tapas 9 said.

We're agreeing that the PJ files were at the mercy of what the Tapas 9 said.

I am not myself of opinion that the statements of people in PJ files have no value.
But one would have to include statements of all hotel staff, all other guests etc etc( not just McCanns and rest of T9 ) if one was taking stance of " devaluing "unbacked-up statements ,so to speak.

 

[Anxala]

They’d be necessary to establish the victim was in the apartment for example and then was missing.

Those elements need to be proven from the primary sources at trial.

So basically that's Gerry McCann then?

He was the alleged last and only known person to see MM alive and well and present in her bed a short time before she was allegedly abducted. He would surely be the primary witness here.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Well yes, this is the thing. If I were doing this, or simply burgling the property or something, I can see how I might use the patio door to get in. But the obvious risk is the bit where you come back out again carrying the TV set, or a child, or whatever. You then walk all the way round the flat to your vehicle at the front, having somehow shut the patio door behind you while your arms were full. That stage is when you're at most risk of being seen and challenged - or simply remembered.

Instead, the logical way to do this that minimises the risk of being caught is to use the apartment itself to screen you from observation. So you enter the flat via the patio door, because you need a way in and you're watching it anyway. You'll enter as soon as possible after the check visit, as this gives you as much time as possible till the next visit in which to get away. You go to the front, you open the street door, you take the child, you let yourself out, put her in your car parked right there, close the street door and you drive off. The opportunity for you to be sighted is minimal, and even if you are, what you're seen doing is forgettably unremarkable.

The only reason I'd use a window would be to pass the TV set, child etc through it to my accomplice parked right outside. But I've still then got to do that patio door walk, in which I could then be seen.

What I do not see, in what is supposed to have happened, is any account that ties the facts at the scene together with any plausible way of removing a child. If MM was taken out through a patio door someone had nerves of steel, and I don't understand in that case why KM insisted she immediately sensed the window was open.

Window to pass to accomplice, to hear/see any oncoming noise/light or just to fake.
Drive with a child at that hour?! In a van?!...and CB had his "principles" LOL. You never know what could happen at the next cross...maybe better to walk and get dispersed into the crowd (Smithman?!).

 

[mrjitty]

So basically that's Gerry McCann then?

He was the alleged last and only known person to see MM alive and well and present in her bed a short time before she was allegedly abducted. He would surely be the primary witness here.

It depends a bit on what the states evidence is but I’d imagine you’d need witnesses to state she was there and then when when she was missing. So basically both parents at least. Especially because of what the defence case will be.

 

[Pixie Child]

Heriberto has named the people not interviewed by police. They were in Apts 5 & 10 of Block 6 opp. 5A.

MH, JH & AH

NOT QUIZZED

(en castellano debajo) There are people who were very close, in space and time, to the Madeleine McCann crime scene, and were not questioned...

espacioexterior.blogspot.com

MdS was visiting Apt 5. She left with her boyfriend- not sure who he was - JH maybe. P.J. POLICE FILES: MARIA MANUELA MARTINS DA SILVA

 

[Lyall0814]

are we no longer talking about the girl claiming she is MM? I have to say she really looks like both of the parents and
I am still curious to see the DNA results. mOO

I watched it. Very sad story but she's very convincing, I think the audience were right to think she believes what she says. She's not all what I was expecting. I can see why some people might think she could be MM.

 

[Megnut]

Maybe the perp was a seasoned burglar and never burglared anywhere where he didn't have two points of egress. Wait till there are no adults ... check the slider... open... go around, check for a window.... open ... open it.... go around and enter through the slider.... back up open window if all else fails. Fast exit...

Jmo