Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[Malleux]

Gulping a bit wasn't he when Williams-Thomas had him in the chair. He didn't enjoy that one

Not really. He looked pretty smiley and relaxed to me. Interview is about 49min in.

 

[Malleux]

In my opinion the whole campaign against CB was ill-prepared and very badly managed. Imagine all that investigating going on and no-one checking out where CB's alleged phone was actually situated when activated on May 3rd! Mark Williams Thomas did the necessary investigating and enlightened the Germans about that.

What did he enlighten them about exactly?

 

[Lyall0814]

Definitely a gulp there. And he licks his lips. He's a prosecutor and I'm sure he'd be asking "Are you nervous?" when he's the one with the questions. I only mentioned it. I'm not claiming it means much

 

[Lyall0814]

What did he enlighten them about exactly?

That you can't assume the call connected from somewhere close to the mast if there's only one mast in a location.

(I can't think HCW didn't already know that. But he wasn't concerned about the media exaggerating the evidence was he)

 

[Malleux]

That you can't assume the call connected from somewhere close to the mast if there's only one mast in a location.

(I can't think HCW didn't already know that.

That's my point, they already knew that. MWT didn't even know the mast range himself, you can be sure the investigation does.

 

[Malleux]

Not really. He looked pretty smiley and relaxed to me. Interview is about 49min in.

Some very interesting and evasive responses to MWT's questions regarding forensic evidence around 50 mins :

MWT: "Have you forensically examined that vehicle and is there a connection to Madeleine to that vehicle and Christian B?"

HCW: "We have no forensic evidence that Madeleine is dead. We have no other results, I don't know where the body is right now, if we knew, we would have found it"

MWT: "So just to be clear, you don't have forensic evidence which links Christian B to Madeleine having been murdered"

HCW: " We have no forensic evidence for the death of Madeleine McCann."


....Is it me or is HCW deliberately avoiding answering the question of whether they have other forensic evidence linking CB and MM?

 

[Lyall0814]

That's my point, they already knew that. MWT didn't even know the mast range himself, you can be sure the investigation does.

Ok but he was happy with the media exaggerating by talk of the phone being close to the Ocean Club wasn't he. He doesn't mind the media going large on what isn't actually all that great evidence. Maybe he's also exaggerating with his bullish talk of "if you knew what we know" and "we're 100% certain"? That's what prosecutors do, some would say. They can't go around saying 'well, we're not really sure but it might be true' can they

 

[G-Unit]

That's my point, they already knew that. MWT didn't even know the mast range himself, you can be sure the investigation does.

I don't think we can be sure that the investigation knew or knows the range of the masts.

 

[Malleux]

I don't think we can be sure that the investigation knew or knows the range of the masts.

But you are sure MWT has enlightened them about it?

The BKA and the Braunschweig investigators will have crawled all over the ins and outs of that phone record and what it means in terms of proximity etc given how important that evidence will be in court and how it could be challenged by the defence. You'd have to be very naive or biased to seriously believe otherwise.

 

[UK Girl]

But you are sure MWT has enlightened them about it?

The BKA and the Braunschweig investigators will have crawled all over the ins and outs of that phone record and what it means in terms of proximity etc given how important that evidence will be in court and how it could be challenged by the defence. You'd have to be very naive or biased to seriously believe otherwise.

I am curious to be honest if they have all this evidence why he hasnt even been charged yet.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

DBM

 

[G-Unit]

But you are sure MWT has enlightened them about it?

The BKA and the Braunschweig investigators will have crawled all over the ins and outs of that phone record and what it means in terms of proximity etc given how important that evidence will be in court and how it could be challenged by the defence. You'd have to be very naive or biased to seriouslyieve otherwise.

I don't know how much attention was paid to the phone records and neither do you. I think if anyone's naive it's the one who assumes, not the one who questions.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

It will be not possible to find the exact phone location only with the phone records.
It will be not possible to be sure CB was using it only with the phone records.
The person who had the phone may be 2500 meters from 5A when the call was done, and in 5A at the time of abduction, or vice versa, or whatever other circumstance we can imagine.

The phone call is not important by now, HCW is searching for possible witnesses, pictures, videos ...

@Malleux that is right. I also think HCW do not have forensic evidence of MM death, but he may have forensic evidence connecting CB with MM. Maybe MM pajamas?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

We have discussed the photo data at length in past threads. I am fairly certain that the records provided in the pj files only show where a phone connected to a tower at the time a call was made. They only confirm that the 680 number connected to a PDL tower at 7:32pm (I think) and the call lasted for 30 minutes. The other number did not connect to a PDL tower and therefore was not in the area. The area covered by the towers is quite large - 30+km. The data doesn’t allow any specific info in relation to proximity than this.

So this means that a phone number which had been used by CB was used in the PDL area at 7.32pm, 3 May, 2007. IMO, it doesn’t prove it was used at the Ocean Club or it was CB that used it or even that it was CB’s phone, it could have been a SIM card.

IMO, this is why they wanted the other caller to come forward, so they could get info from them as to CH’s exact location.

This is all just what I can remember but perhaps @Janosch can provide confirmation or clarification?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It will be not possible to find the exact phone location only with the phone records.
It will be not possible to be sure CB was using it only with the phone records.
The person who had the phone may be 2500 meters from 5A when the call was done, and in 5A at the time of abduction, or vice versa, or whatever other circumstance we can imagine.

The phone call is not important by now, HCW is searching for possible witnesses, pictures, videos ...

@Malleux that is right. I also think HCW do not have forensic evidence of MM death, but he may have forensic evidence connecting CB with MM. Maybe MM pajamas?

Re the bold, what do you base this on? I get that the subtitles provided in the YouTube clip seem to be very specific around “death” but is he so specific in spokenGerman? Is there any more to it?

 

[Deleted member 268165]

We have discussed the photo data at length in past threads. I am fairly certain that the records provided in the pj files only show where a phone connected to a tower at the time a call was made. They only confirm that the 680 number connected to a PDL tower at 7:32pm (I think) and the call lasted for 30 minutes. The other number did not connect to a PDL tower and therefore was not in the area. The area covered by the towers is quite large - 30+km. The data doesn’t allow any specific info in relation to proximity than this.

So this means that a phone number which had been used by CB was used in the PDL area at 7.32pm, 3 May, 2007. IMO, it doesn’t prove it was used at the Ocean Club or it was CB that used it or even that it was CB’s phone, it could have been a SIM card.

IMO, this is why they wanted the other caller to come forward, so they could get info from them as to CH’s exact location.

This is all just what I can remember but perhaps @Janosch can provide confirmation or clarification?

The range could be +30 km, but it could be shortened to 2 or 3 km by other Vodafone antennaes in the zone, which could have picked the call, instead of the "Rua 1º de Maio, 2" one (the so called "Ocean Club mast").

 

[G-Unit]

I have wondered if the UK and German investigators have taken the request made by the PJ to the mobile phone companies at face value. They did mention specific locations;

'
the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations:

Apartment:

N - 37,088863 // N37º 5' 19,91"
W - 8,730775...// W 8º 43' 50,79"

Tapas Restaurant

N - 37,088378 // N37º 5' 18,16"
W - 8,730979...// W 8º 43' 51,52"

P.J. POLICE FILES: MOBILE PHONE ANALYSIS TAPAS TELEPHONE TRAFFIC

Obviously other calls outside those locations were included.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

I have wondered if the UK and German investigators have taken the request made by the PJ to the mobile phone companies at face value. They did mention specific locations;

'
the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations:

Apartment:

N - 37,088863 // N37º 5' 19,91"
W - 8,730775...// W 8º 43' 50,79"

Tapas Restaurant

N - 37,088378 // N37º 5' 18,16"
W - 8,730979...// W 8º 43' 51,52"

P.J. POLICE FILES: MOBILE PHONE ANALYSIS TAPAS TELEPHONE TRAFFIC

Obviously other calls outside those locations were included.

The mobile phone companies were unable to give data with that detail (Tapas Bar, 5A, etc). Only which mast was activated, and there was very few masts in PdL, and surroundings.

If there were a lot of masts, like in a big city with a mast every 100 meters or so, the precision would be much better.

Now we have GPS in the mobile phones, but in 2007, unfortunately, we did not have that type of data.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The range could be +30 km, but it could be shortened to 2 or 3 km by other Vodafone antennaes in the zone, which could have picked the call, instead of the "Rua 1º de Maio, 2" one (the so called "Ocean Club mast").

Okay, so are saying that the calls could be traced to a specific mast? And if so, that would reduce the radius to 2-3km?

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Okay, so are saying that the calls could be traced to a specific mast? And if so, that would reduce the radius to 2-3km?

Mora than 2-3 km away from 5A another Vodaphone mast would activated. So we have a zone of 2-3 km around 5A.