Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[Okapi]

Frank, if people make statements as facts, then they need to be supported with a source. These are the rules of the forum.

Mex clearly stated that CB had a conviction for the possession of illegal images. This is untrue.

I didn’t dismiss any facts, rather, I tried to keep the facts straight which is important given the clear biases people have.

Look, I think this issue may come down to semantics?

Can you genuinely please explain the difference to me between “a conviction for the possession of illegal images”, which CB does not have, and the convictions BBM in the source below? (which will probably be censored now I come to think of it, but check the link if so).

‘News magazine Spiegel today revealed that Brueckner has 17 convictions in Germany for child abuse and child offences, driving without a licence, assault, burglary, theft and drink driving.
…

‘In 2013 he abused another little girl and was caught with child , and was jailed for those offences in 2016.’


New Madeleine McCann suspect discussed her in an online chatroom


Are you differentiating between possession and recording of indecent material? Or are media sources misattributing the crime?
I am lost, Denis, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw does anyone have a link for CB’s precise verbatim convictions? I am only finding paraphrases, hence my confusion no doubt.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Look, I think this issue may come down to semantics?

Can you genuinely please explain the difference to me between “a conviction for the possession of illegal images”, which CB does not have, and the convictions BBM in the source below? (which will probably be censored now I come to think of it, but check the link if so).

‘News magazine Spiegel today revealed that Brueckner has 17 convictions in Germany for child abuse and child *advertiser censored* offences, driving without a licence, assault, burglary, theft and drink driving.
…

‘In 2013 he abused another little girl and was caught with child *advertiser censored*, and was jailed for those offences in 2016.’


New Madeleine McCann suspect discussed her in an online chatroom


Are you differentiating between possession and recording of indecent material? Or are media sources misattributing the crime?
I am lost, Denis, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw does anyone have a link for CB’s precise verbatim convictions? I am only finding paraphrases, hence my confusion no doubt.

It makes a difference because we were discussing whether CB filmed footage for economic gain.

The suggestion is frequently made on this forum that CB was selling the footage that he recorded or using it to access dark web file sharing platforms.

My point is very simple, there is zero evidence and has been no reporting that CB ever sold, uploaded or downloaded any footage or that he was a member of any file sharing platform. Therefore, the only logical explanation we have, at this stage, is that he recorded some (not all) of his offences for his personal use.

It’s not semantics when other posters state as fact that CB’s motivation was clear because he has a criminal record for the possession of illegal images - that is factually untrue and should be questioned or people can state any opinion as fact!

The general view from subsequent posts on this topic is that because CB committed child abuse, rapes and had footage of the same, it stands to reason that he was involved in MM’s disappearance.

This is a fallacy.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Look, I think this issue may come down to semantics?

Can you genuinely please explain the difference to me between “a conviction for the possession of illegal images”, which CB does not have, and the convictions BBM in the source below? (which will probably be censored now I come to think of it, but check the link if so).

‘News magazine Spiegel today revealed that Brueckner has 17 convictions in Germany for child abuse and child *advertiser censored* offences, driving without a licence, assault, burglary, theft and drink driving.
…

‘In 2013 he abused another little girl and was caught with child *advertiser censored*, and was jailed for those offences in 2016.’


New Madeleine McCann suspect discussed her in an online chatroom


Are you differentiating between possession and recording of indecent material? Or are media sources misattributing the crime?
I am lost, Denis, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw does anyone have a link for CB’s precise verbatim convictions? I am only finding paraphrases, hence my confusion no doubt.

Yes, a number of threads back, I listed his entire criminal history, please try searching for it on the forum.

He is a serial offender but has no convictions for abduction, burglary, possession of CSA images or footage or murder.

 

[G-Unit]

Yes, a number of threads back, I listed his entire criminal history, please try searching for it on the forum.

He is a serial offender but has no convictions for abduction, burglary, possession of CSA images or footage or murder.

I think people's views on CB have been influenced by the stories in the media. The problem with that is that they cannot be relied on. Trial by media doesn't always rely on truth, but on innuendo, gossip and publicity seeking 'witnesses.

 

[Dave55]

I think people's views on CB have been influenced by the stories in the media. The problem with that is that they cannot be relied on.

And that's why Wolters is tak

Trial by media doesn't always rely on truth, but on innuendo, gossip and publicity seeking 'witnesses.

In this case there's no reason to rely on stories in the media..we have love interviews by the prosecutor himself.,...and unless Wolters is lying and backed by the entire BKA....then it's highly likely CB is guilty Having said that no one wants CB convicted on weak evidence but from what Wolters is saying that won't happen

 

[RichardKimble]

Negativity to one person is a realistic appraisal of the situation to another.

The current BKA investigation has been running for six years. The most recent forecast from the prosecutor is that it could run for nine years.

Based on HCW’s statements shortly after the appeal the the investigation was not meant to run for this amount of time.

From this, I have to conclude that there are problems in proving that CB committed any offence against MM.

As a result, the media conviction of CB is objectionable.

An add on to that is the updated appeal in Oct of last year, the info wanted from the first appeal didn't materialise imo.

Fahndung nach Personen - Zeugenaufruf - Verschwinden der Madeleine McCANN

www.bka.de

Time:05/03/2007
Crime scene raia da Luz / Portugal
As part of the clarification of the circumstances of the crime, it is particularly important to determine the actual whereabouts of the accused at the presumed time of the crime, which is between 9:10 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. on the day of the crime.
At the critical time, the suspect used a dark-colored Jaguar XJR 6 , there is no information about the specific registration before the crime, the last known registration after the day of the crime was from the city of Augsburg, as well as a white and yellow VW T3 Westfalia with Portuguese registration. There are indications that he could have used one of these vehicles to commit the crime.
In addition, he was almost certainly using the Portuguese mobile number +351 912 730 680 at the time of the crime in question . A telephone call was made to a previously unknown person on May 3, 2007 at a relevant time in the area of Praia da Luz. The caller used the Portuguese number + 351 916 510 683. The user of this number is considered an important witness , but was not in the area during the call.

The Federal Criminal Police Office and the Braunschweig public prosecutor ask for your help:

• Can you provide information on the vehicles used by the suspect, or did you see them at the beginning of May 2007, or do you know where they were parked during the period mentioned?
• Can you provide information on the phone numbers mentioned and their users in May 2007?
• Can you provide information about the houses, rooms or other points of interest shown?
• Were you in the Algarve at the beginning of May 2007 and do you still have any photo material such as vacation photos or videos?
• Were you in contact with a person who was connected to the vehicles, buildings and telephone numbers shown and can you provide information on their whereabouts at the beginning of May 2007?
• Have you yourself been the victim of a crime by this person?
• Furthermore, there is reason to assume that, in addition to the perpetrator himself, there are other people who have specific knowledge of the possible course of events and, if applicable, where the corpse was deposited. We expressly ask these people to get in touch and share their knowledge.

If desired, there is also the possibility of checking and treating this information confidentially!
Detailed information about the vehicles:
Vehicle 1: Jaguar XJR 6
Color: dark red / aubergine
License plate: The last known registration after the day of the crime was with the city of Augsburg.
Whereabouts: The whereabouts of the vehicle have been clarified.
Vehicle 2: VW T3 Westfalia
Color: white / yellow
License plate: In May 2007 Portuguese license plates were mounted on the vehicle.
Whereabouts: The whereabouts of the vehicle have been clarified.
Note: The suspect was not the owner of the vehicle. The owner must be ruled out as a suspect.

 

[RichardKimble]

And that's why Wolters is tak

In this case there's no reason to rely on stories in the media..we have love interviews by the prosecutor himself.,...and unless Wolters is lying and backed by the entire BKA....then it's highly likely CB is guilty Having said that no one wants CB convicted on weak evidence but from what Wolters is saying that won't happen

Has he said he's certain of a conviction though?

 

[Pixie Child]

It makes a difference because we were discussing whether CB filmed footage for economic gain.

The suggestion is frequently made on this forum that CB was selling the footage that he recorded or using it to access dark web file sharing platforms.

My point is very simple, there is zero evidence and has been no reporting that CB ever sold, uploaded or downloaded any footage or that he was a member of any file sharing platform. Therefore, the only logical explanation we have, at this stage, is that he recorded some (not all) of his offences for his personal use.

It’s not semantics when other posters state as fact that CB’s motivation was clear because he has a criminal record for the possession of illegal images - that is factually untrue and should be questioned or people can state any opinion as fact!

The general view from subsequent posts on this topic is that because CB committed child abuse, rapes and had footage of the same, it stands to reason that he was involved in MM’s disappearance.

This is a fallacy.

Panikspatz is described as a ‘client’. They talked on Skype but they must have met online elsewhere. We know police talked to others.

He has also been linked to Boystown.

We know from MT that ‘he was always on the dark web’ and MT thought it was drugs and .

There were hundreds of paedophiles in the area. It stands to reason that CB did it because he has confessed on 2 separate occasions and made a number of additional odd comments. He was away clear but he put himself in the frame. Like MT said, he was a braggart, liked to talk about his crimes past & future.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Panikspatz is described as a ‘client’. They talked on Skype but they must have met online elsewhere. We know police talked to others.

He has also been linked to Boystown.

We know from MT that ‘he was always on the dark web’ and MT thought it was drugs and *advertiser censored*.

There were hundreds of paedophiles in the area. It stands to reason that CB did it because he has confessed on 2 separate occasions and made a number of additional odd comments. He was away clear but he put himself in the frame. Like MT said, he was a braggart, liked to talk about his crimes past & future.

His ruin IMO. And record them for his and maybe other's future pleasure. And imagine what all this would (not) be if he would have been more prudent as he tried in some of his acts...his letters seem also too naive.

 

[Lyall0814]

And that's why Wolters is tak

In this case there's no reason to rely on stories in the media..we have love interviews by the prosecutor himself.,...and unless Wolters is lying and backed by the entire BKA....then it's highly likely CB is guilty Having said that no one wants CB convicted on weak evidence but from what Wolters is saying that won't happen

Dave, you're saying this on a site crammed full of cases of miscarriage of justice. In all of those cases the police and prosecutors were totally convinced the accused was guilty too.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

For different stories, historical, contexts, circunstances, investigation, levelling can only be innocuous IMO.

 

[Davieson]

Panikspatz is described as a ‘client’. They talked on Skype but they must have met online elsewhere. We know police talked to others.

He has also been linked to Boystown.

We know from MT that ‘he was always on the dark web’ and MT thought it was drugs and *advertiser censored*.

There were hundreds of paedophiles in the area. It stands to reason that CB did it because he has confessed on 2 separate occasions and made a number of additional odd comments. He was away clear but he put himself in the frame. Like MT said, he was a braggart, liked to talk about his crimes past & future.

Or somebody else has put him in the frame.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Have yuou seen Black Mirror Loch Henry in Netflix?
(trial by profile).

 

[RichardKimble]

Panikspatz is described as a ‘client’. They talked on Skype but they must have met online elsewhere. We know police talked to others.

He has also been linked to Boystown.

We know from MT that ‘he was always on the dark web’ and MT thought it was drugs and *advertiser censored*.

There were hundreds of paedophiles in the area. It stands to reason that CB did it because he has confessed on 2 separate occasions and made a number of additional odd comments. He was away clear but he put himself in the frame. Like MT said, he was a braggart, liked to talk about his crimes past & future.

The BKA have rightly so investigated, it could be argued that after 6 yrs, they are no nearer to charges, Wolters admits as much if quotes attributed to him are true regarding continuation even if CB is released.From only a few days ago.

Mr Wolters said: “The investigation into the Maddie case will take as long as is necessary. If necessary, beyond a possible release of the accused.”

Fresh blow in Madeleine McCann case as suspect could be freed before probe ends

Hans Christian Wolters has admitted the probe against Christian Brueckner, who is suspected of kidnapping Madeleine McCann, could carry on beyond 2026 – when he is due to be released

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

Have yuou seen Black Mirror Loch Henry in Netflix?
(trial by profile).

What is/was the outcome?

 

[frank-cole]

Were the teams investigating Jeffery Dalmer, Rose and Fred West, Ivan Milat, Peter Sutcliffe, Josef Fritzel better?

Let’s be clear, the Met and the BKA have nothing more to show for their investigation than the PJ at this stage.

Hindsight is always 20:20.

True, hindsight is 20:20. It’s also worth noting that the cases in the Algarve are far more recent & far better resource available & obtainable.

That said, if this was a seaside resort in Britain, (or in the majority of other seaside locations are Europe) in 2007, I highly doubt 28 cases of a sex offender entering little girls bedrooms, numerous rapes, numerous child abuse cases & child abductions would all go unsolved in just 1 small area in a relatively small time frame. It would have been flagged early & major resource would have been put into that area to deal with the serious levels of crime. If that level of serious unsolved crime was happening in the area you or I lived IMO it would be an even more intense version (2007 version) of how people reacted when the night stalker was active because an offender was going after the children! Unfortunately people were unaware. Tourism, economy n’all.

IMO It reflects the sheer incompetence of the police force in that region, it’s no wonder a lot of these crimes only came to light when other LEA’s got involved.

 

[frank-cole]

Frank, if people make statements as facts, then they need to be supported with a source. These are the rules of the forum.

Mex clearly stated that CB had a conviction for the possession of illegal images. This is untrue.

I didn’t dismiss any facts, rather, I tried to keep the facts straight which is important given the clear biases people have.

I agree, biases are clear. That’s why it’s important to highlight the fact CB is a convicted child molester who photographs his crimes. Which may well be factors into the crimes we all discuss regularly. Technicalities, nuances & pedantry isn’t an antidote for dismissing the plausibility that his criminality & his habits remained & were factors in his subsequent offences.

IMO it’s nonsensical to look at each crime individually & speculate upon them as if there’s a blank slate beneath each. That’s where I see the most the bias.

 

[RichardKimble]

I agree, biases are clear. That’s why it’s important to highlight the fact CB is a convicted child molester who photographs his crimes. Which may well be factors into the crimes we all discuss regularly. Technicalities, nuances & pedantry isn’t an antidote for dismissing the plausibility that his criminality & his habits remained & were factors in his subsequent offences.

IMO it’s nonsensical to look at each crime individually & speculate upon them as if there’s a blank slate beneath each. That’s where I see the most the bias.

He is said to have videoed one rape, allegations yet to be heard in court of others, where are the allegations of photographing his child molestation from?

 

[Davieson]

True, hindsight is 20:20. It’s also worth noting that the cases in the Algarve are far more recent & far better resource available & obtainable.

That said, if this was a seaside resort in Britain, (or in the majority of other seaside locations are Europe) in 2007, I highly doubt 28 cases of a sex offender entering little girls bedrooms, numerous rapes, numerous child abuse cases & child abductions would all go unsolved in just 1 small area in a relatively small time frame. It would have been flagged early & major resource would have been put into that area to deal with the serious levels of crime. If that level of serious unsolved crime was happening in the area you or I lived IMO it would be an even more intense version (2007 version) of how people reacted when the night stalker was active because an offender was going after the children! Unfortunately people were unaware. Tourism, economy n’all.

IMO It reflects the sheer incompetence of the police force in that region, it’s no wonder a lot of these crimes only came to light when other LEA’s got involved.

Agreed, but what is the point in highlighting past history?
Portuguese police service has probably improved, though no degree of improvement alters the past.

 

[Pixie Child]

Or somebody else has put him in the frame.

I think you could make that argument if it was only HB who came forward.

But it will be more difficult to make that argument about the person to whom he confessed in the bar on the 10th anniversary. That person was concerned enough to report it to police with nothing to gain and hopefully is of good character.

When you put all the admissions - (‘horrible job to do’, ‘she’s dead now, that’s a good thing’); potential admission to Panikspatz and writing about it, you have to ask why did he put himself in the frame for this particular crime?

He didn’t go around telling people he killed Inge or Joanna - there’s no evidence that he’s a fantasist.