Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[Denis R Tandib]

You think they've got enough even though HCW has told the world they don't have enough? That's illogical.

Why would they need to break him if they have enough evidence to charge - apparently charging is based on a high probability of a conviction.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That is your opinion which definitely is not supported by the evidence in police hands, unless you are part of the investigation.

Except the glaringly obvious fact that there is no charge.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thanks Denis, I had a look although this is all I can hoke out: post 127 in thread 34:

‘Against children there are only the convictions in 1994 and 2016.

‘In 2017 he was convicted for beating up his then very young girlfriend.

‘Then there is the DM rape.’

But no source, so I can’t sparse semantics. Anyhow, the verbatim convictions aren’t readily available in media archives to the best of my knowledge, so it’s a bit of a murky reservoir. Moving on I think

No, this isn’t it, let me look for it.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thanks Denis, I had a look although this is all I can hoke out: post 127 in thread 34:

‘Against children there are only the convictions in 1994 and 2016.

‘In 2017 he was convicted for beating up his then very young girlfriend.

‘Then there is the DM rape.’

But no source, so I can’t sparse semantics. Anyhow, the verbatim convictions aren’t readily available in media archives to the best of my knowledge, so it’s a bit of a murky reservoir. Moving on I think

This is it, the source was one of the German news agencies, I think Der Speigel but I could be wrong.

04/05/1992 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
09/11/1992 - Theft (Court of Wurzburg)
06/05/1993 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
13/10/1994 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Wurzburg) - 2 counts - one of a 6yr old and one against a 9yr old.
27/12/2005 - Driving without insurance and violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Pforzheim)
26/10/2006 - Disobedience (Court of Lagos)
21/12/2006 - Diesel theft (Court of Portimao)
17/11/2010 - Falsification of documents (Court of Hannover)
06/10/2011 - Drug dealing/Trafficking (Court of Niebull)
28/01/2013 - Theft (Court of Hannover)
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)
15/07/2015 - Attempted theft (Court of Braunschweig)
16/02/2016 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Braunschweig)
08/06/2016 - Drink driving, driving without insurance and falsification of documents (Court of Helmstedt)
27/02/2017 - Grevious Bodily Harm for an assualt on his then girlfriend. (Court of Braunschweig)
Dec 2019 - Rape of 72-year-old woman (Court of Braunschweig)

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

A few bickering posts containing insults and off topic issues have been removed.

Discuss the case, not other members or issues that do not relate directly to the case.

Any more bickering or insults (and responses to them) and any/all parties involved will be issued a 1 week minimum Time Out from the board.

Post accordingly. Thank you.

 

[Okapi]

This is it, the source was one of the German news agencies, I think Der Speigel but I could be wrong.

04/05/1992 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
09/11/1992 - Theft (Court of Wurzburg)
06/05/1993 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
13/10/1994 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Wurzburg) - 2 counts - one of a 6yr old and one against a 9yr old.
27/12/2005 - Driving without insurance and violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Pforzheim)
26/10/2006 - Disobedience (Court of Lagos)
21/12/2006 - Diesel theft (Court of Portimao)
17/11/2010 - Falsification of documents (Court of Hannover)
06/10/2011 - Drug dealing/Trafficking (Court of Niebull)
28/01/2013 - Theft (Court of Hannover)
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)
15/07/2015 - Attempted theft (Court of Braunschweig)
16/02/2016 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Braunschweig)
08/06/2016 - Drink driving, driving without insurance and falsification of documents (Court of Helmstedt)
27/02/2017 - Grevious Bodily Harm for an assualt on his then girlfriend. (Court of Braunschweig)
Dec 2019 - Rape of 72-year-old woman (Court of Braunschweig)

Thanks a million Denis

 

[RichardKimble]

I think each case is successful or falls on its own facts.

Then the premise of some that a MO is to be likened to the MM case is false.

 

[RichardKimble]

This is it, the source was one of the German news agencies, I think Der Speigel but I could be wrong.

04/05/1992 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
09/11/1992 - Theft (Court of Wurzburg)
06/05/1993 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
13/10/1994 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Wurzburg) - 2 counts - one of a 6yr old and one against a 9yr old.
27/12/2005 - Driving without insurance and violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Pforzheim)
26/10/2006 - Disobedience (Court of Lagos)
21/12/2006 - Diesel theft (Court of Portimao)
17/11/2010 - Falsification of documents (Court of Hannover)
06/10/2011 - Drug dealing/Trafficking (Court of Niebull)
28/01/2013 - Theft (Court of Hannover)
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)
15/07/2015 - Attempted theft (Court of Braunschweig)
16/02/2016 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Braunschweig)
08/06/2016 - Drink driving, driving without insurance and falsification of documents (Court of Helmstedt)
27/02/2017 - Grevious Bodily Harm for an assualt on his then girlfriend. (Court of Braunschweig)
Dec 2019 - Rape of 72-year-old woman (Court of Braunschweig)

Pity it doesn't show any sentencing, fines etc.

 

[RichardKimble]

The police do not determine guilt - they collect the evidence - a court of law determines who walks or goes dodown.

Yet in the Indepentent article you linked to prosecutors are 100% sure of his guilt who are they speaking for the police or judiciary.


Prosecutors investigating the Madeleine McCann case have said they are certain suspect Christian Brueckner murdered her.

Madeleine McCann investigators ‘100% convinced’ suspect killed her

Prosecutors said they will hold off until they have more evidence

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thanks a million Denis

In 1994, he was 17. Recently released from a care home. He was certainly physically abused as a child and may have been sexually abused. I don’t think this excuses this conviction but may explain some of it.

There are no convictions of a sexual nature until 22 years later for child abuse in 2016.

He was obviously then convicted for the 2005 rape of DM in 2019.

Other possible offences are the alleged 2004 rape of HB, the unidentified rapes of two women between 2000 and 2006 and the comparatively less serious public exposure/ abuse offences in 2007 and 2017. All remain unproven.

IMO, if you consider his actual record and the time and resources spent investigating him by the BKA leading to the above cases, is it fair to say he is definitely responsible for the abduction and murder of MM?

CB is a repeat offender, I have no issue believing he is bad. But, IMO, he has no conviction for abduction. He has no conviction for murder. He has no conviction for causing physical harm to a child and his child abuse victims were all older than MM. He had no charges or convictions for any crimes against children between 1994 and 2007.

How does a crime against MM fit in with this?

What makes most people think CB is guilty of a crime against CB? Quite simply, the public accusations by the prosecutor.

Please tell me Okapi, what do you think of the alignment between CB’s record and the alleged crime against MM.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Pity it doesn't show any sentencing, fines etc.

I am fairly sure that until 2018, he hadn’t had much jail time - perhaps the diesel theft in 2006 and the 2016 child abuse.

I think also, he fled Germany in 1995 to avoid a custodial sentence for the 1995 convictions. This is all just from memory, I don’t have a source.

Certainly, I don’t think he is responsible for the many unsolved murders he has been connected to in the media.

 

[RichardKimble]

This is it, the source was one of the German news agencies, I think Der Speigel but I could be wrong.

04/05/1992 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
09/11/1992 - Theft (Court of Wurzburg)
06/05/1993 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
13/10/1994 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Wurzburg) - 2 counts - one of a 6yr old and one against a 9yr old.
27/12/2005 - Driving without insurance and violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Pforzheim)
26/10/2006 - Disobedience (Court of Lagos)
21/12/2006 - Diesel theft (Court of Portimao)
17/11/2010 - Falsification of documents (Court of Hannover)
06/10/2011 - Drug dealing/Trafficking (Court of Niebull)
28/01/2013 - Theft (Court of Hannover)
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)
15/07/2015 - Attempted theft (Court of Braunschweig)
16/02/2016 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Braunschweig)
08/06/2016 - Drink driving, driving without insurance and falsification of documents (Court of Helmstedt)
27/02/2017 - Grevious Bodily Harm for an assualt on his then girlfriend. (Court of Braunschweig)
Dec 2019 - Rape of 72-year-old woman (Court of Braunschweig)

So from 2010 onwards all court appearances were in Germany ,4 of them in Braunschweig whose office is now leading the investigation into CB'S alleged involvement into the MM case, yet not once it seems was any suspicion brought upon himself .

 

[Denis R Tandib]

So from 2010 onwards all court appearances were in Germany ,4 of them in Braunschweig whose office is now leading the investigation into CB'S alleged involvement into the MM case, yet not once it seems was any suspicion brought upon himself .

Yes.

Plenty of opportunity to develop a hateful relationship between CB and the prosecutors IMO.

 

[Mex]

Yet in the Indepentent article you linked to prosecutors are 100% sure of his guilt who are they speaking for the police or judiciary.


Prosecutors investigating the Madeleine McCann case have said they are certain suspect Christian Brueckner murdered her.

Madeleine McCann investigators ‘100% convinced’ suspect killed her

Prosecutors said they will hold off until they have more evidence

www.independent.co.uk

Which is probably why they have made CB the prime suspect in the murder of MM and have informed the public and requested information on that basis.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

This is it, the source was one of the German news agencies, I think Der Speigel but I could be wrong.

04/05/1992 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
09/11/1992 - Theft (Court of Wurzburg)
06/05/1993 - Theft and driving without a licence (Court of Wurzburg)
13/10/1994 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Wurzburg) - 2 counts - one of a 6yr old and one against a 9yr old.
27/12/2005 - Driving without insurance and violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Pforzheim)
26/10/2006 - Disobedience (Court of Lagos)
21/12/2006 - Diesel theft (Court of Portimao)
17/11/2010 - Falsification of documents (Court of Hannover)
06/10/2011 - Drug dealing/Trafficking (Court of Niebull)
28/01/2013 - Theft (Court of Hannover)
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)
15/07/2015 - Attempted theft (Court of Braunschweig)
16/02/2016 - Child sexual abuse (Court of Braunschweig)
08/06/2016 - Drink driving, driving without insurance and falsification of documents (Court of Helmstedt)
27/02/2017 - Grevious Bodily Harm for an assualt on his then girlfriend. (Court of Braunschweig)
Dec 2019 - Rape of 72-year-old woman (Court of Braunschweig)

What leapt off the page for me was "
14/03/2013 - Violation of gun legislation/carrying a weapon (Court of Braunschweig)"

A hand gum appears to be a recurring theme in association with CB.

 

[Mex]

In 1994, he was 17. Recently released from a care home. He was certainly physically abused as a child and may have been sexually abused. I don’t think this excuses this conviction but may explain some of it.

There are no convictions of a sexual nature until 22 years later for child abuse in 2016.

He was obviously then convicted for the 2005 rape of DM in 2019.

Other possible offences are the alleged 2004 rape of HB, the unidentified rapes of two women between 2000 and 2006 and the comparatively less serious public exposure/ abuse offences in 2007 and 2017. All remain unproven.

IMO, if you consider his actual record and the time and resources spent investigating him by the BKA leading to the above cases, is it fair to say he is definitely responsible for the abduction and murder of MM?

CB is a repeat offender, I have no issue believing he is bad. But, IMO, he has no conviction for abduction. He has no conviction for murder. He has no conviction for causing physical harm to a child and his child abuse victims were all older than MM. He had no charges or convictions for any crimes against children between 1994 and 2007.

How does a crime against MM fit in with this?

What makes most people think CB is guilty of a crime against CB? Quite simply, the public accusations by the prosecutor.

Please tell me Okapi, what do you think of the alignment between CB’s record and the alleged crime against MM.

The vile murderer of Holly and Jessica had no convictions for abduction.

He had no convictions for murder.

But he abducted and murdered both Holly and Jessica.

 

[Mex]

I am fairly sure that until 2018, he hadn’t had much jail time - perhaps the diesel theft in 2006 and the 2016 child abuse.

I think also, he fled Germany in 1995 to avoid a custodial sentence for the 1995 convictions. This is all just from memory, I don’t have a source.

Certainly, I don’t think he is responsible for the many unsolved murders he has been connected to in the media.

It is procedure to check out unresolved crimes of a similar nature when investigating seious crime.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

Yes.

Plenty of opportunity to develop a hateful relationship between CB and the prosecutors IMO.

We have witnessed sixteen years of such in the MM crime from first to last which may have seriously interfered with investigating sexual offenders in the Algarve.
My opinion

 

[Consider Dudley]

In 1994, he was 17. Recently released from a care home. He was certainly physically abused as a child and may have been sexually abused. I don’t think this excuses this conviction but may explain some of it.

There are no convictions of a sexual nature until 22 years later for child abuse in 2016.

He was obviously then convicted for the 2005 rape of DM in 2019.

Other possible offences are the alleged 2004 rape of HB, the unidentified rapes of two women between 2000 and 2006 and the comparatively less serious public exposure/ abuse offences in 2007 and 2017. All remain unproven.

IMO, if you consider his actual record and the time and resources spent investigating him by the BKA leading to the above cases, is it fair to say he is definitely responsible for the abduction and murder of MM?

CB is a repeat offender, I have no issue believing he is bad. But, IMO, he has no conviction for abduction. He has no conviction for murder. He has no conviction for causing physical harm to a child and his child abuse victims were all older than MM. He had no charges or convictions for any crimes against children between 1994 and 2007.

How does a crime against MM fit in with this?

What makes most people think CB is guilty of a crime against CB? Quite simply, the public accusations by the prosecutor.

Please tell me Okapi, what do you think of the alignment between CB’s record and the alleged crime against MM.

Didn’t He Who Must Not Be Mentioned say that CB was the perfect patsy, ie that he fitted the profile of one who would commit just such a crime of abduction and murder? There’s one professional opinion!

How does his criminal record NOT fit in with such a crime I wonder…?

 

[Okapi]

In 1994, he was 17. Recently released from a care home. He was certainly physically abused as a child and may have been sexually abused. I don’t think this excuses this conviction but may explain some of it.

There are no convictions of a sexual nature until 22 years later for child abuse in 2016.

He was obviously then convicted for the 2005 rape of DM in 2019.

Other possible offences are the alleged 2004 rape of HB, the unidentified rapes of two women between 2000 and 2006 and the comparatively less serious public exposure/ abuse offences in 2007 and 2017. All remain unproven.

IMO, if you consider his actual record and the time and resources spent investigating him by the BKA leading to the above cases, is it fair to say he is definitely responsible for the abduction and murder of MM?

CB is a repeat offender, I have no issue believing he is bad. But, IMO, he has no conviction for abduction. He has no conviction for murder. He has no conviction for causing physical harm to a child and his child abuse victims were all older than MM. He had no charges or convictions for any crimes against children between 1994 and 2007.

How does a crime against MM fit in with this?

What makes most people think CB is guilty of a crime against CB? Quite simply, the public accusations by the prosecutor.

Please tell me Okapi, what do you think of the alignment between CB’s record and the alleged crime against MM.

I think of the Titanic. At this point in time, I can only see part of an iceberg. It doesn’t mean it’s not there. It doesn’t mean it is.

I’m happy to own my bias and say categorically that anyone convicted of an abusive crime against a minor will always be a danger to children, in my mind. That’s my personal opinion. I don’t class offences against children by age rating. Underage is underage. It’s an abuse of power by the offender. And the history of domestic violence attested by CB’s ex-girlfriends is also in my mind. So I find myself agreeing with Frank’s comments upthread, about legal/factual truths.

As for CB’s crimesheet, we simply don’t know if the interim period of no sexual convictions means that he committed no crimes, or if he evaded detection. It’s a problem exacerbated by his rootlessness.

But sexual crimes have to start somewhere and for many offenders, they escalate. Filming DM’s rape was an escalation built on the experience of prior crimes imo. And thinking on something you said upthread, Denis, such crimes may have emerged initially within a formerly consensual relationship with another adult.

CB is a curious mix of calculation and recklessness. Substance abuse could well account for the latter. I am looking forward to seeing what the five pending charges will elucidate about him.

I remain hopeful that the MM investigators will solve the crime. Whether it results in CB’s conviction remains to be seen.

Thanks again for digging out the convictions list. I’ve bookmarked it