Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[RichardKimble]

For me it does matter in which court the cases are heard. All the work has been carried out by prosecutors in Braunschweig, not to pass on to another jurisdiction but to progress it through the trial stage and beyond.

Two thoughts from me
Firstly FF's move for a change of court was from a defence which had seriously run out of options and played the jurisdiction card as a last resort delaying tactic.
Bearing in mind that the defence are in possession of all the case files and are very well aware of what they are up against.
I'm betting that no one was as surprised as FF when the judge went along with it.

Secondly - I too have pondered as you have, that there might be an ulterior motive surrounding the delay in resolving the venue for the trial. But without embarking into conspiracy theory country few of the notions I've come up with are tenable.

I think HCW said he lend one of two prosecutors to the other jurisdiction so that doesn't really matter.

FF said he raised the jurisdiction issue at a preliminary, so hardly running out of options, the delay scenario only works if CB were in the last month's of his sentence imo, he's there until 2026, so any ulterior motive for a delay is a non starter.
I'm not into conspiracys, although it could argued the covering up of the truth in the MM case In a conspiracy, I can only come up with a couple of solutions into why CB's legal team need to establish a different place of domicile.

 

[Lyall0814]

For me it does matter in which court the cases are heard. All the work has been carried out by prosecutors in Braunschweig, not to pass on to another jurisdiction but to progress it through the trial stage and beyond.

Two thoughts from me
Firstly FF's move for a change of court was from a defence which had seriously run out of options and played the jurisdiction card as a last resort delaying tactic.
Bearing in mind that the defence are in possession of all the case files and are very well aware of what they are up against.
I'm betting that no one was as surprised as FF when the judge went along with it.

Secondly - I too have pondered as you have, that there might be an ulterior motive surrounding the delay in resolving the venue for the trial. But without embarking into conspiracy theory country few of the notions I've come up with are tenable.

"When the judge went along with it" It's either legal to have the trial(s) in Braunschweig or it isn't.

 

[RichardKimble]

"When the judge went along with it" It's either legal to have the trial(s) in Braunschweig or it isn't.

It makes it sound as if there's a thought of some kind of subterfuge going on.

 

[Okapi]

I think HCW said he lend one of two prosecutors to the other jurisdiction so that doesn't really matter.

FF said he raised the jurisdiction issue at a preliminary, so hardly running out of options, the delay scenario only works if CB were in the last month's of his sentence imo, he's there until 2026, so any ulterior motive for a delay is a non starter.
I'm not into conspiracys, although it could argued the covering up of the truth in the MM case In a conspiracy, I can only come up with a couple of solutions into why CB's legal team need to establish a different place of domicile.

Please share.

 

[Mex]

I think HCW said he lend one of two prosecutors to the other jurisdiction so that doesn't really matter.

FF said he raised the jurisdiction issue at a preliminary, so hardly running out of options, the delay scenario only works if CB were in the last month's of his sentence imo, he's there until 2026, so any ulterior motive for a delay is a non starter.
I'm not into conspiracys, although it could argued the covering up of the truth in the MM case In a conspiracy, I can only come up with a couple of solutions into why CB's legal team need to establish a different place of domicile.

I'm easy about when the question of CB's domicile was initially, raised but if it was at a preliminary stage of proceedings (and I believe it was) what a pity it is that it wasn't resolved sooner.

I don't know what your reference to a cover up in the MM case relates to, particularly since at the moment the courts are trying to sort out jurisdiction for five unrelated cases. Which those affected by the holdup have waited for many long years to have addressed in court.

 

[Mex]

"When the judge went along with it" It's either legal to have the trial(s) in Braunschweig or it isn't.

It would seem there is actually quite a time consuming legal discussion going on regarding exactly that point. No doubt we will find out what the result is in the fullness of time given how difficult it is apparently proving to be to pin down an itinerant career criminal with a penchant for periodically buying into premises and land while retaining mobile homes.

I imagine precedents set now will have future implications which I think criminals will be watching with interest,

 

[RichardKimble]

Please share.

It's not about my theories it's about MM and CB .

 

[Mex]

It makes it sound as if there's a thought of some kind of subterfuge going on.

Late in September 2022 FF said
Snip
"As early as September 2022, I informed the public prosecutor's office in writing that, in my opinion, jurisdiction was assumed on the basis of incorrect legal considerations.
The Federal Court of Justice has long since ruled that it does not matter where a defendant is registered to establish a place of residence.
Before his arrest abroad, the accused last lived on his property in Neuwegersleben," the defense lawyer told BILD. In the small town in Saxony-Anhalt, CB owned a dilapidated warehouse.
The public prosecutor's office and the court in Magdeburg would thus be responsible. Frankfurt am Main would also be conceivable, "since the accused was handed over to the German authorities there as part of the extradition," FF continued.
____________________________________________________

"We assume our jurisdiction, but are examining the circumstances that have now been communicated for the first time by the defense counsel, which are intended to establish a different territorial jurisdiction," said prosecutor HCW.

The Braunschweig Regional Court refers to the ongoing examination and does not take a position. According to BILD information from judicial circles, however, the district court tends to be willing to follow the argumentation of the defense lawyer.


A possible advantage for the defendant: The responsible public prosecutors in Braunschweig are deep in the material in the accused cases as well as in the Maddie case. In Magdeburg or Frankfurt, the public prosecutor's office and the court would have to familiarize themselves with the matter from scratch.

It would be questionable how soon the rape proceedings could then be opened. And if at all.

Fall Maddie: Wird der Prozess nach Magdeburg verlegt?

Bald sollte in Braunschweig ein Prozess gegen den Maddie-Verdächtigen Christian Brückner beginnen. Doch nun ist unklar, ob das Gericht zuständig ist.

www.bild.de

Quite frankly I don't know whether or not there is any subterfuge associated with the effort to have a court of choice, but it does seem evident that it has resulted in disruption of the due process in the trial of serious crimes against women and children

 

[RichardKimble]

I'm easy about when the question of CB's domicile was initially, raised but if it was at a preliminary stage of proceedings (and I believe it was) what a pity it is that it wasn't resolved sooner.

I don't know what your reference to a cover up in the MM case relates to, particularly since at the moment the courts are trying to sort out jurisdiction for five unrelated cases. Which those affected by the holdup have waited for many long years to have addressed in court.

FF is quoted.

In a statement to MailOnline Mr Fulscher said: 'In its decision of April 19, 2023, the Regional Court of Braunschweig declared that it had no jurisdiction over the charge against Christian B. and revoked the arrest warrant against him.

'The defense already pointed out during the preliminary proceedings that the Braunschweig judiciary should not have local jurisdiction.

'For reasons that are not understandable here, the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig clung to its jurisdiction and thus risked being overturned by the Federal Court of Justice if it were opened. This is very questionable, in particular given the fact that a large number of witnesses would have had to appear in court again (on very incriminating issues) in the event of an annulment.

Madeleine McCann suspect may not face charges in Germany

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner may not face charges in Germany after a court there ruled prosecutors had no jurisdiction to pursue a case against him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mex]

It's not about my theories it's about MM and CB .

Do you think discussion of the jurisdiction is a distraction then since it has nothing to do with MM's case but all to do with five separate cases unrelated to her.

Or do you think moving the goalposts with regard to these five crimes will impinge on the MM case in some way?

 

[Lyall0814]

Do you think discussion of the jurisdiction is a distraction then since it has nothing to do with MM's case but all to do with five separate cases unrelated to her.

Or do you think moving the goalposts with regard to these five crimes will impinge on the MM case in some way?

It's always an embarrassing moment if a bunch of investigators has to share their work with another bunch, whatever the reason for suddenly having to work with the other organisation is.

 

[enquirer6]

Late in September 2022 FF said
Snip
"As early as September 2022, I informed the public prosecutor's office in writing that, in my opinion, jurisdiction was assumed on the basis of incorrect legal considerations.
The Federal Court of Justice has long since ruled that it does not matter where a defendant is registered to establish a place of residence.
Before his arrest abroad, the accused last lived on his property in Neuwegersleben," the defense lawyer told BILD. In the small town in Saxony-Anhalt, CB owned a dilapidated warehouse.
The public prosecutor's office and the court in Magdeburg would thus be responsible. Frankfurt am Main would also be conceivable, "since the accused was handed over to the German authorities there as part of the extradition," FF continued.
____________________________________________________

"We assume our jurisdiction, but are examining the circumstances that have now been communicated for the first time by the defense counsel, which are intended to establish a different territorial jurisdiction," said prosecutor HCW.

The Braunschweig Regional Court refers to the ongoing examination and does not take a position. According to BILD information from judicial circles, however, the district court tends to be willing to follow the argumentation of the defense lawyer.


A possible advantage for the defendant: The responsible public prosecutors in Braunschweig are deep in the material in the accused cases as well as in the Maddie case. In Magdeburg or Frankfurt, the public prosecutor's office and the court would have to familiarize themselves with the matter from scratch.

It would be questionable how soon the rape proceedings could then be opened. And if at all.

Fall Maddie: Wird der Prozess nach Magdeburg verlegt?

Bald sollte in Braunschweig ein Prozess gegen den Maddie-Verdächtigen Christian Brückner beginnen. Doch nun ist unklar, ob das Gericht zuständig ist.

www.bild.de

Quite frankly I don't know whether or not there is any subterfuge associated with the effort to have a court of choice, but it does seem evident that it has resulted in disruption of the due process in the trial of serious crimes against women and children

A possible advantage for the defendant: The responsible public prosecutors in Braunschweig are deep in the material in the accused cases as well as in the Maddie case. In Magdeburg or Frankfurt, the public prosecutor's office and the court would have to familiarize themselves with the matter from scratch.​

Time-delay and prevarication. This has all to do with procedural wrangles and nothing to do with the strength of the case against the accused (in my opinion).

 

[enquirer6]

Do you think discussion of the jurisdiction is a distraction then since it has nothing to do with MM's case but all to do with five separate cases unrelated to her.

Or do you think moving the goalposts with regard to these five crimes will impinge on the MM case in some way?

I think we are on identical wave-lengths, Mex.

 

[Davieson]

A possible advantage for the defendant: The responsible public prosecutors in Braunschweig are deep in the material in the accused cases as well as in the Maddie case. In Magdeburg or Frankfurt, the public prosecutor's office and the court would have to familiarize themselves with the matter from scratch.​

Time-delay and prevarication. This has all to do with procedural wrangles and nothing to do with the strength of the case against the accused (in my opinion).

Its difficult to assess the outcome of a change of jurisdiction and therefore a change in prosecutor. IMO

 

[enquirer6]

Its difficult to assess the outcome of a change of jurisdiction and therefore a change in prosecutor. IMO

I think it is a plausible inference that the defence is stalling on procedural issues because it regards the case against its client as strong.

 

[Davieson]

I think it is a plausible inference that the defence is stalling on procedural issues because it regards the case against its client as strong.

You have a problem with that ? I see it as ensuring that any trial is legally sound and heard in the correct court

 

[enquirer6]

You have a problem with that ? I see it as ensuring that any trial is legally sound and heard in the correct court

I accept that it is the job of the defence to represent their client to the maximum degree of effectiveness allowed by law, and I am not aware of anything to suggest that the defence has gone beyond what the law allows.

At the same time, I feel a sense of frustration on behalf of the McCanns and Madeleine's extended family that prevarication and delay, however legal, increases their hearache and despair.

 

[Davieson]

I accept that it is the job of the defence to represent their client to the maximum degree of effectiveness allowed by law, and I am not aware of anything to suggest that the defence has gone beyond what the law allows.

At the same time, I feel a sense of frustration on behalf of the McCanns and Madeleine's extended family that prevarication and delay, however legal, increases their hearache and despair.

Quite frankly I don't see this as having anything to do with the McCanns, This jurisdiction issue pertains to the 5 sex abuse cases.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I think it is a plausible inference that the defence is stalling on procedural issues because it regards the case against its client as strong.

Also my opinion. Defence is left entertained and try to distract with technicalities. It may suggest the cases are strong and from their side, they are empty in substance. They cannot turn the moon a square.

 

[Anxala]

I accept that it is the job of the defence to represent their client to the maximum degree of effectiveness allowed by law, and I am not aware of anything to suggest that the defence has gone beyond what the law allows.

At the same time, I feel a sense of frustration on behalf of the McCanns and Madeleine's extended family that prevarication and delay, however legal, increases their hearache and despair.

How very odd to blame the defence for the prosecution's shortcomings. The current 5 charges have nothing to do with the CB/MM case. You sound as if you think the current jurisdiction issue is what's delaying movement on the MM investigation/charge. It's not. Lack of credible evidence is what's delaying it, nothing to do with the pending cases or the defence.

Surely your frustration would be better directed at HCW here rather than the defence since HCW's the one falling short here by failing to bring a convincing case against CB before a judge, despite telling the world at large many many moons ago that a charge was more or less in the bag and just round the corner.