Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Mex]

I don't see a contradiction there.
FF would have known by September that charges were imminent and wrote to the Prosecutor about jurisdiction.
He did not raise the issue with the Court at that time as charges hadn't been laid.
The Prosecutor clearly chose to ignore the issue of jurisdiction and went ahead with the charges, which is why they are in the present situation

No contradiction at all. Merely confirmation that the date when the issue was raised by FF was in September 2022.

 

[RichardKimble]

I don't see a contradiction there.
FF would have known by September that charges were imminent and wrote to the Prosecutor about jurisdiction.
He did not raise the issue with the Court at that time as charges hadn't been laid.
The Prosecutor clearly chose to ignore the issue of jurisdiction and went ahead with the charges, which is why they are in the present situation

There is no contradiction, it could be argued though that having known the defence angle, the prosecutors went ahead regardless and possibly damaged the case because of procedural issues .

 

[Davieson]

There is no contradiction, it could be argued though that having known the defence angle, the prosecutors went ahead regardless and possibly damaged the case because of procedural issues .

In part that was the point I was trying to make.

What I do find interesting is that Wolters is in effect taking his own court to court over the decision they made.

 

[Mex]

There is no contradiction, it could be argued though that having known the defence angle, the prosecutors went ahead regardless and possibly damaged the case because of procedural issues .

The fact that the the charges were made early in October 2022 is proof that the prosecutors had finished their investigation and were not at the preliminary stages as has been suggested, is merely reinforcing the timing of the sequence of events.

A further two months elapsed prior to the attempt to take the cases to court in January 2023.

 

[Mex]

In part that was the point I was trying to make.

What I do find interesting is that Wolters is in effect taking his own court to court over the decision they made.

Why do you think that HCW is alone in what is a corporate decision involving many others.

He is doing his job just as FF is doing his on behalf of CB's teams of lawyers. I

 

[RichardKimble]

The fact that the the charges were made early in October 2022 is proof that the prosecutors had finished their investigation and were not at the preliminary stages as has been suggested, is merely reinforcing the timing of the sequence of events.

A further two months elapsed prior to the attempt to take the cases to court in January 2023.

Prior to Oct 22 then it would have been preliminary.

 

[RichardKimble]

The fact that the the charges were made early in October 2022 is proof that the prosecutors had finished their investigation and were not at the preliminary stages as has been suggested, is merely reinforcing the timing of the sequence of events.

A further two months elapsed prior to the attempt to take the cases to court in January 2023.

Attempt at trial in Jan of this year? where is this from ?

 

[Mex]

Prior to Oct 22 then it would have been preliminary.

That is apparently in accordance with what FF has stated in your tabloid cite just as it was in mine.
The difference was he stated the bald facts in BILD - he proceeded to propagandise in the Mail. Much of which has become the common narrative of events and all of which is the defence council's opinion.
My opinion

 

[RichardKimble]

That is apparently in accordance with what FF has stated in your tabloid cite just as it was in mine.
The difference was he stated the bald facts in BILD - he proceeded to propagandise in the Mail. Much of which has become the common narrative of events and all of which is the defence council's opinion.
My opinion

From the mail article, where is he propagandising ?

The defense already pointed out during the preliminary proceedings that the Braunschweig judiciary should not have local jurisdiction.

 

[RichardKimble]

As it stands as of this moment, CB is not facing charges, CB remains under suspicion of killing MM, he remains innocent until proven otherwise.

 

[Mex]

Attempt at trial in Jan of this year? where is this from ?

Trial of suspect in "Maddie" case not before 2023​

Status: 12.10.2022 18:51 Uhr
The Braunschweig Regional Court is first examining whether it allows the indictment against Christian B. for other sexual offenses. A possible trial will start next year at the earliest.
______________________________________-
The court confirmed on Wednesday the receipt of the indictment against the 45-year-old, who is also a suspect in the case of the missing girl Maddie. In a so-called intermediate procedure, the competent criminal chamber will now examine whether the indictment will be admitted and the main proceedings will be opened, it said. However, a trial is not expected to start before 2023.

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Indeed. That was the hoped for outcome. As we have seen - that did not happen. Unfortunately we have not yet been able to test the defender's opinion on these five cases in an open court as a result.
Snip

Defense attorney considers evidence to be meager​

The defender of the suspect, Friedrich Fülscher, told the German Press Agency that the allegations had been known for some time. The situation has not changed. "I think the evidence is poor in all cases," he stressed.

 

[Lyall0814]

That is apparently in accordance with what FF has stated in your tabloid cite just as it was in mine.
The difference was he stated the bald facts in BILD - he proceeded to propagandise in the Mail. Much of which has become the common narrative of events and all of which is the defence council's opinion.
My opinion

If he had any interest in shaping the 'common narrative' he could be having his say in the papers every day. Just like us they're so desperate to know what's going on they'd print every word of whatever anyone wanted to give them about this case imo

But there's silence. It's not just us case obsessives who are exasperated.

 

[Mex]

As it stands as of this moment, CB is not facing charges, CB remains under suspicion of killing MM, he remains innocent until proven otherwise.

CB presently enjoys the presumption of innocence and it looks as if that will be the situation for some time to come.

My preference would be for him to face trial for his alleged crimes and have the issue settled by due process.

 

[Davieson]

Why do you think that HCW is alone in what is a corporate decision involving many others.

He is doing his job just as FF is doing his on behalf of CB's teams of lawyers. I

Why do you think that HCW is alone in what is a corporate decision involving many others.

He is doing his job just as FF is doing his on behalf of CB's teams of lawyers. I

One doesn't know who might be involved, but as Wolters is lead/spokesperson, it seems sensible to use his name, rather than an anonymous group.

 

[frank-cole]

The fact that the the charges were made early in October 2022 is proof that the prosecutors had finished their investigation and were not at the preliminary stages as has been suggested, is merely reinforcing the timing of the sequence of events.

A further two months elapsed prior to the attempt to take the cases to court in January 2023.

it seems that Fulscher was only compelled to make this move after he’d seen the evidence files. IMO the timing could be significant & may be a reflection of how he perceives the strength of the prosecutions case.

 

[Davieson]

CB presently enjoys the presumption of innocence and it looks as if that will be the situation for some time to come.

My preference would be for him to face trial for his alleged crimes and have the issue settled by due process.

I'm sure CB's preference would be to avoid the trials in the first place if at all possible

 

[Anxala]

BIB it can't be resolved sooner.

It can only be resolved when the charges were filed. No question of jurisdiction arises before then,

Thanks for all your clarifications, MrJ. Very hepful in keeping the thread in the realms of reality rather than fantasy. Can you please clarify further on the following, when you have a moment:

Once a new jurisdiction is established and agreed upon, the 5 pending case files will be handed over to the corresponding police force/prosecutors and court in this new jurisdiction, right? And HCW & his team won't have any further involvement in a legal sense? And a new prosecutor will take over? And this new jurisdiction will be the jurisdiction in which any future charges against CB will be handled/tried, is that correct?

I have more questions (not least where does that leave HCW & co in terms of their ongoing investigation into CB/MM?) but clarity on the above in the interim would be great.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you think by raising the jurisdiction issue , it's a step to get the charges completely struck off?

I get that many posters here see this all as part of some wider legal strategy but as a lawyer I just see it on its own merits

The prosecution brought indictments and the defence got the charges dismissed. It's not a ruse, delaying tactic, loophole or whatever you want to call it. The case was thrown out pretrial.

Whether the charges are brought again at some other place and time are questions for the prosecutor.

The defence can only litigate the case in front of it - which it successfully did so far.

IMO there is nothing more to it than that.

 

[RichardKimble]

Trial of suspect in "Maddie" case not before 2023​

Status: 12.10.2022 18:51 Uhr
The Braunschweig Regional Court is first examining whether it allows the indictment against Christian B. for other sexual offenses. A possible trial will start next year at the earliest.
______________________________________-
The court confirmed on Wednesday the receipt of the indictment against the 45-year-old, who is also a suspect in the case of the missing girl Maddie. In a so-called intermediate procedure, the competent criminal chamber will now examine whether the indictment will be admitted and the main proceedings will be opened, it said. However, a trial is not expected to start before 2023.

Nachrichten aus Braunschweig, Göttingen und dem Harz

Aktuelle Informationen aus Braunschweig, Göttingen und dem Harz mit Videos und Audios von NDR 1 Niedersachsen, Hallo Niedersachsen und weiteren NDR Programmen.

www.ndr.de

Indeed. That was the hoped for outcome. As we have seen - that did not happen. Unfortunately we have not yet been able to test the defender's opinion on these five cases in an open court as a result.
Snip

Defense attorney considers evidence to be meager​

The defender of the suspect, Friedrich Fülscher, told the German Press Agency that the allegations had been known for some time. The situation has not changed. "I think the evidence is poor in all cases," he stressed.

No mention of January which is what you posted.

 

[RichardKimble]

I get that many posters here see this all as part of some wider legal strategy but as a lawyer I just see it on its own merits

The prosecution brought indictments and the defence got the charges dismissed. It's not a ruse, delaying tactic, loophole or whatever you want to call it. The case was thrown out pretrial.

Whether the charges are brought again at some other place and time are questions for the prosecutor.

The defence can only litigate the case in front of it - which it successfully did so far.

IMO there is nothing more to it than that.

Thank you.