Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Mex]

The No-Body Guy talks about this too. The digital trail we leave nowadays is compelling evidence when it disappears.

As I see it, the problem with the MM case is that it happened slightly before the smart phone revolution so people weren’t documenting their lives online and MM was obviously too young to have developed a digital identity and activity.

Given the characters in this case and the location, I think we would only be looking at phone calls text messages, email and browsing history from the perpetrators.

It’s hard to see how they would get anything more than they have from old phones, cameras or PCs from the box factory.

Where there is evidence to be found and the investigation finds it it will be used in relation to crime.

CB had already been convicted and jailed for serious sexual crimes so there is something to be said for evidence retrieved from digital sources.
Snip
'I believe he abused my daughter on three occasions, but the police only charged him for the one occasion because they had photos of the abuse,' she said.

The evidence from old phones, cameras and computers found in the box factory showed hideous crimes perpetrated against children. You seem to suggest this evidence is worthless ... have I got your meaning right about that?

We don't know what other evidence investigators recorded regarding these crimes, but there were thousands of files to be processed. Do you know if MM was one? If she was do you suggest that should be ignored along with the other abused children featured? Just because the evidence was found in the box factory and associated CB with unspeakable crimes.

Christian Brueckner's ex-girlfriend claims he assaulted her daughter

A 35-year-old woman, who is a former girlfriend of Christian Brueckner, said she lived in fear of his release from prison after serving a sentence for sexually assaulting her five-year-old daughter.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

Just to note, forensics and DNA evidence is circumstantial evidence.

Agreed but HCW admits to not having any of these the circumstantial evidence he has must be tenuous.

 

[Mex]

That is your opinion of which of course you are entitled to, which in reality cannot be backed up with evidence which the BKA may have, others are forwarding examples of why despite CB being a suspect the BKA haven't progressed to charging CB, that argument at the moment is winning out imo least of all there is no indictment to counter it.

Do you agree that CB is the prime German suspect in MM's murder?
If you do, do you think that is so without supporting evidence?

 

[mrjitty]

I agree. HCW was talking about a two month investigation after the appeal so the time factor shows that things are not going to plan.

A breakthrough will only ever solve it IMO. Investigations lasting 12 years with OG, 10 years with the PJ and now 6+ with the BKA and not a charge from any of them.

Until someone finds the grave site and evidence of how MM got there, all we’ll have is incomplete investigations and former suspects.

My guess is they expected to find the body from the appeal process. i.e. with the right suspect, the pieces would fall into place. They didn't need an appeal to speak to known associates. So they must have been looking for people/witnesses they were not aware of who might be able to place the car/camper.

 

[RichardKimble]

Do you agree that CB is the prime German suspect in MM's murder?
If you do, do you think that is so without supporting evidence?

I agree the Germans have said he is a suspect, that should stop discussion of why the BKA haven't progressed to indictment?

 

[Mex]

Given it is the same victim, it is the easiest and most relevant comparison to make. Despite your repeated assertions of the vast yet unknown evidence against CB, this comparison shows that the views of investigators can be incomplete and/or wrong.

I see no reason why it should be any different with this suspect based on the available information which renders useless any secret evidence the prosecutors may have - no body, nor forensics… IMO, no chance.

CB the subject of this thread, is the only suspect in the crime against MM. That is fact.

 

[RichardKimble]

My guess is they expected to find the body from the appeal process. i.e. with the right suspect, the pieces would fall into place. They didn't need an appeal to speak to known associates. So they must have been looking for people/witnesses they were not aware of who might be able to place the car/camper.

It might be that the case stalled in 2020 going as far as it could, the appeal lead to the for now dropped indictments for sex offences, but in relation to MM nothing substantive.

 

[Mex]

While we can't know what evidence they have, I think if we reach next summer without charges, it would be hard to believe the investigation is on track. I am already quite sceptical after 3 years.

Especially one wonders what actually they can be working on. The reservoir search apparently comes from a recent tip off. This suggests they are still waiting for a breakthrough in the case.

The investigation into MM's case and CB's alleged role in it is being conducted under secrecy of justice. It is for the investigators to draw conclusions based on the evidence to which they are privy but we are not. The mere fact they are continuing with it shows there are still investigative opportunities which are being checked out.
My opinion

 

[Lyall0814]

Do you agree that CB is the prime German suspect in MM's murder?
If you do, do you think that is so without supporting evidence?

I guess they had to investigate him in relation to Madeleine when the papers were soon going to be publishing the tales of the people claiming he was responsible. They couldn't just ignore that.

 

[Mex]

I agree the Germans have said he is a suspect, that should stop discussion of why the BKA haven't progressed to indictment?

With due respect - to me it is obvious why investigators have not proceeded to indict CB in relation to crime against MM.
a) they have not concluded the investigation yet, they are still working on it.
b) also there is the small issue of jurisdiction to be decided

 

[Consider Dudley]

This is a circular argument which will keep going round and round and on and on ad infinitum all the while there is a lack of knowledge about exactly what the BKA/HCW have on the suspect. It does seem a bit of a pointless exercise to me. I don't need convincing that the BKA haven't yet got sufficient evidence to bring charges but it seems that it's important to some to have this constantly acknowledged on this thread. I get it, I really do. I don't however think that the lack of charges means we can dismiss CB as the key suspect in Madeleine's disappearance, nor do I think it should be used as an excuse to keep on testing the rules of the forum to the limit by making insinuations about previous suspects.

 

[Davieson]

I'm afraid circular arguments are inevitable when there is little or no activity to discuss.
As we don't know whether investigators are currently doing anything much at all, any comment is bound to be individual opinion.

 

[Mex]

I'm afraid circular arguments are inevitable when there is little or no activity to discuss.
As we don't know whether investigators are currently doing anything much at all, any comment is bound to be individual opinion.

Is there any good reason for revisiting official conclusions reached in 2008 which have constantly been reiterated over the years.
Snip
''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.'' Pedro Do Carmo 2017
http://expresso.sapo.pt/sociedade/2...-Maddie-nao-sao-suspeitos.-Ponto-1#gs.sEWw0fU

But there is a suspect named as CB and I'm sure there must be something to say about that.

 

[Davieson]

While CB remains a suspect there is no need to revisited anything pre 2020
When he ceases to be a suspect is the time to look elsewhere. IMO

 

[onemoremiletogo]

While CB remains a suspect there is no need to revisited anything pre 2020
When he ceases to be a suspect is the time to look elsewhere. IMO

Since BKA does not share what they say they have as material evidence, since charge does not come (yet), there are ones who believe CB has nothing to do with MM. Really? Nothing to do...so, someone else did, is that it, right? This is being documented in this forum for future reference...

Do you really believe he will ever cease as suspect?! I don't. IMO BKA, CB and FF(?) know he did it.
And three (3!) police forces in Arade last May...

 

[mrjitty]

Personally I am only interested in how HCW is able to proceed in the case at hand.

Maybe they have new investigative leads they are working on, but it feels increasingly like a case that has stalled out. That doesn't necessarily mean they have the wrong person.

Maybe we will see action after summer.

 

[Okapi]

Personally I am only interested in how HCW is able to proceed in the case at hand.

Maybe they have new investigative leads they are working on, but it feels increasingly like a case that has stalled out. That doesn't necessarily mean they have the wrong person.

Maybe we will see action after summer.

Agree. At the next rehashed report, I wish the media would invite a legal expert to explain the legal/jurisdiction/prosecution issues around CB’s pending charges to those of us (ie me lol) unversed in the complexities of German law. Addressing the queries we’ve discussed in recent threads.

I have read quite a bit around how criminal law in Germany differs from Anglo-American systems and it’s fascinating and very precisely focused on examining indisputable facts. But it is very opaque! And difficult to find frank laymen explanations and statistics eg prosecution/jurisdiction disputes. Legal text suggests it occurs, but specific examples (of any German court cases really) seem to be absent online.

 

[Davieson]

Since BKA does not share what they say they have as material evidence, since charge does not come (yet), there are ones who believe CB has nothing to do with MM. Really? Nothing to do...so, someone else did, is that it, right? This is being documented in this forum for future reference...

Do you really believe he will ever cease as suspect?! I don't. IMO BKA, CB and FF(?) know he did it.
And three (3!) police forces in Arade last May...

What BKA/prosecutors have is a belief.
They may have evidence to conclusively support that view, but until proved in court it is still a belief.

In the event of him not being charged, or even acquitted over MM, police will have to admit that they were wrong.
At this point the BKA will cease to have interest in the case.
Whether any other investigator has the will to continue pursuit of a different perpetrator remains to be seen

 

[onemoremiletogo]

What BKA/prosecutors have is a belief.
They may have evidence to conclusively support that view, but until proved in court it is still a belief.

In the event of him not being charged, or even acquitted over MM, police will have to admit that they were wrong.
At this point the BKA will cease to have interest in the case.
Whether any other investigator has the will to continue pursuit of a different perpetrator remains to be seen

IMO there is already too much on him that would fit. And he confess himself...
Cumulative evidence may still not be sufficient, charge may not come, but IMO it's really hard to believe someone else did it.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Where there is evidence to be found and the investigation finds it it will be used in relation to crime.

CB had already been convicted and jailed for serious sexual crimes, so there is something to be said for evidence retrieved from digital sources.
Snip
'I believe he abused my daughter on three occasions, but the police only charged him for the one occasion because they had photos of the abuse,' she said.

The evidence from old phones, cameras and computers found in the box factory showed hideous crimes perpetrated against children. You seem to suggest this evidence is worthless ... have I got your meaning right about that?

We don't know what other evidence investigators recorded regarding these crimes, but there were thousands of files to be processed. Do you know if MM was one? If she was do you suggest that should be ignored along with the other abused children featured? Just because the evidence was found in the box factory and associated CB with unspeakable crimes.

Christian Brueckner's ex-girlfriend claims he assaulted her daughter

A 35-year-old woman, who is a former girlfriend of Christian Brueckner, said she lived in fear of his release from prison after serving a sentence for sexually assaulting her five-year-old daughter.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

In the context of a no-body murder, digital evidence can be crucial. Still, it must be essentially irrefutable evidence the victim is dead, so a video showing the suspect unloading a 12-guage into the head of the victim would qualify; web chat stating the suspect wanted to shoot the victim in the head wouldn't.

We can be sure that no such evidence from the box factory exists because CB would have been charged if it did. The same applies to evidence obtained between the appeal and October 2022, when the other five less severe cases were charged. Again, if such strong evidence were in the possession of the prosecutors, they would have charged him.

So my point was never to trivialise any of the crimes found on the various storage devices at the box factory. Instead, it was to state that overwhelmingly strong digital evidence capable of convicting CB without a body for MM was doubtful, given the age of the devices, the age of the victim and the fact that there has been no charge to date.

Given the circumstances of the case and how the investigation has unfolded, I can't understand how CB can be charged with a crime against MM and IMO, no digital evidence secured by the prosecution is strong enough to obtain a conviction for MM's murder.