Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Davieson]

IMO there is already too much on him that would fit. And he confess himself...
Cumulative evidence may still not be sufficient, charge may not come, but IMO it's really hard to believe someone else did it.

I disagree with that view, but that's OK - no problem.

 

[mrjitty]

We’ve not been shown any evidence to suggest CB is guilty. Or have I missed something?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

My guess is they expected to find the body from the appeal process. i.e. with the right suspect, the pieces would fall into place. They didn't need an appeal to speak to known associates. So they must have been looking for people/witnesses they were not aware of who might be able to place the car/camper.

Yep. I've gone from thinking he was a murderer to thinking the prosecution's story resembles the emperor's new clothes.

He comes from a dishonest world and the whole case against him could be based on lies he's told, or lies told about him.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

CB the subject of this thread, is the only suspect in the crime against MM. That is fact.

Not the first and unlikely the last IMO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

With due respect - to me it is obvious why investigators have not proceeded to indict CB in relation to crime against MM.
a) they have not concluded the investigation yet, they are still working on it.
b) also there is the small issue of jurisdiction to be decided

a) When they get a random tip-off to collect dirt in the Portuguese summer. The once-popular media personality has been rather quiet in terms of updates other than this. Doesn't indicate much is happening.
b) Oh please, if the evidence were strong enough a charge would have come before October last year.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

We’ve not been shown any evidence to suggest CB is guilty. Or have I missed something?

Not that I know of why do you ask?

 

[Consider Dudley]

We’ve not been shown any evidence to suggest CB is guilty. Or have I missed something?

We've not seen it or heard it with our eyes and ears but we have been told of evidence which suggests he was involved, yes.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Is there any good reason for revisiting official conclusions reached in 2008 which have constantly been reiterated over the years.
Snip
''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.'' Pedro Do Carmo 2017
http://expresso.sapo.pt/sociedade/2...-Maddie-nao-sao-suspeitos.-Ponto-1#gs.sEWw0fU

But there is a suspect named as CB and I'm sure there must be something to say about that.

Who is blaming the parents?

They are central figures in this tragedy, so they are bound to be mentioned - they're not Lord Voldemort are they?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

What BKA/prosecutors have is a belief.
They may have evidence to conclusively support that view, but until proved in court it is still a belief.

In the event of him not being charged, or even acquitted over MM, police will have to admit that they were wrong.
At this point the BKA will cease to have interest in the case.
Whether any other investigator has the will to continue pursuit of a different perpetrator remains to be seen

This is what I think too, they have a compelling theory but without a conviction that's all it will ever be.

 

[mrjitty]

Yep. I've gone from thinking he was a murderer to thinking the prosecution's story resembles the emperor's new clothes.

He comes from a dishonest world and the whole case against him could be based on lies he's told, or lies told about him.

To me that was always the risk. This happened to some extent in the delphi case. A catfisher put himself in the frame and became the top suspect. But years later, turns out he was nothing to do with it.

There was a lot of argument that the coincidences were too great, and he fitted the profile too well ....

But profile is not evidence, and in the end the reason they could never link him directly to the murders is he wasn't the murderer

Obviously an unusual case but it's why i want to see the hard evidence before forming any opinion.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Who is blaming the parents?

They are central figures in this tragedy, so they are bound to be mentioned - they're not Lord Voldemort are they?

There have been quite a few insinuations to that effect recently, all now removed now I believe. As far as I can gather discussing the McCanns is on a par with discussing Amaral - ie: not permitted.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

To me that was always the risk. This happened to some extent in the delphi case. A catfisher put himself in the frame and became the top suspect. But years later, turns out he was nothing to do with it.

There was a lot of argument that the coincidences were too great, and he fitted the profile too well ....

But profile is not evidence, and in the end the reason they could never link him directly to the murders is he wasn't the murderer

Obviously an unusual case but it's why i want to see the hard evidence before forming any opinion.

Probably wise.

I watched the MWT doco again. He has AB on a call stating that CB sent him the Jag info way before 4 May but that is the day he got registering it. It's likely AB was completely unaware of anything to do with MM when he registered the car. Possibly just a complete coincidence.

If a charge is never forthcoming, does CB have any kind of a case against the prosecutors do you think?

ETA, HCW's attitude towards MWT was as cold as a mother-in-law's kiss too. I don't think he liked the investigation into his work or the scepticism about it.

 

[sandy_80]

We’ve not been shown any evidence to suggest CB is guilty. Or have I missed something?

idk do you consider the witness evidence

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I disagree with that view, but that's OK - no problem.

Yes, no problem.
Making this as "basic" here, apart from the lack of charge, insufficient evidence but also with (IMO) a lot on him that would fit (even considered weak by many), there are ones who still believe that was not CB and some else did it. This is here for the records when/if he is charged or sufficient evidence eventually arise.

Again, IMO, now (16 years later), it will be "impossible" to get forensics. And even his confession...

 

[Megnut]

Prosecuting no body cases always present unique challenges. Defense attorneys often push the narrative that the deceased might not even be dead....

BARD is a high standard. Circumstantial evidence is weighted equal to direct evidence, but circumstantial evidence can also recall layers of connection. Linkage by inference.

Imagine for a second a wrongful civil lawsuit against CB, where the standard isn't BARD, but lower.

Does a phone call place CB outside the zone of possible abductor? Or was he burgling in one locating while his phone was establishing an "alibi" across town? Does he have a documented history of theft, breaking and entering, shocking sexual behaviors, etc, etc.

Has someone seen photos that link CB and MM? Photos that haven't been recovered but testimony that is evidentiary, a witness to the photo whose recall of it relates it to other known photos of CB, a common and identifiable backdrop, which depicts sexual violence that is not consistent with life/survivability....

I believe that MM's broken parents have seen enough to accept the bitter truth that MM couldn't have and didn't survive and that CB is linked to that. BARD for them, just not quite BARD yet, for conviction.

LE can continue to investigate, make more connections to continue building a strong circumstantial case against him because, for now, he's going nowhere. No reason to start the clock since he's in jail already.

JMO

 

[Davieson]

Prosecuting no body cases always present unique challenges. Defense attorneys often push the narrative that the deceased might not even be dead....

BARD is a high standard. Circumstantial evidence is weighted equal to direct evidence, but circumstantial evidence can also recall layers of connection. Linkage by inference.

Imagine for a second a wrongful civil lawsuit against CB, where the standard isn't BARD, but lower.

Does a phone call place CB outside the zone of possible abductor? Or was he burgling in one locating while his phone was establishing an "alibi" across town? Does he have a documented history of theft, breaking and entering, shocking sexual behaviors, etc, etc.

Has someone seen photos that link CB and MM? Photos that haven't been recovered but testimony that is evidentiary, a witness to the photo whose recall of it relates it to other known photos of CB, a common and identifiable backdrop, which depicts sexual violence that is not consistent with life/survivability....

I believe that MM's broken parents have seen enough to accept the bitter truth that MM couldn't have and didn't survive and that CB is linked to that. BARD for them, just not quite BARD yet, for conviction.

LE can continue to investigate, make more connections to continue building a strong circumstantial case against him because, for now, he's going nowhere. No reason to start the clock since he's in jail already.

JMO

"Does he have a documented history of theft, breaking and entering,"

I'm not sure that he does. He certainly hasn't been convicted of any such crime , unless it was included as part of his rape conviction

"LE can continue to investigate, make more connections to continue building a strong circumstantial case against him because, for now, he's going nowhere. No reason to start the clock since he's in jail already."

There will definitely be a limit to the amount of resources prosecutors are prepared to pour into this investigation, so it will not continue ad infinitum

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Prosecuting no body cases always present unique challenges. Defense attorneys often push the narrative that the deceased might not even be dead....

BARD is a high standard. Circumstantial evidence is weighted equal to direct evidence, but circumstantial evidence can also recall layers of connection. Linkage by inference.

Imagine for a second a wrongful civil lawsuit against CB, where the standard isn't BARD, but lower.

Does a phone call place CB outside the zone of possible abductor? Or was he burgling in one locating while his phone was establishing an "alibi" across town? Does he have a documented history of theft, breaking and entering, shocking sexual behaviors, etc, etc.

Has someone seen photos that link CB and MM? Photos that haven't been recovered but testimony that is evidentiary, a witness to the photo whose recall of it relates it to other known photos of CB, a common and identifiable backdrop, which depicts sexual violence that is not consistent with life/survivability....

I believe that MM's broken parents have seen enough to accept the bitter truth that MM couldn't have and didn't survive and that CB is linked to that. BARD for them, just not quite BARD yet, for conviction.

LE can continue to investigate, make more connections to continue building a strong circumstantial case against him because, for now, he's going nowhere. No reason to start the clock since he's in jail already.

JMO

He's going nowhere...that's it.
Hope he will be kept in more years with the charges from one/all other cases.
At limit, I do not believe Germany "easily" allows parole to this creature.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

"Does he have a documented history of theft, breaking and entering,"

I'm not sure that he does. He certainly hasn't been convicted of any such crime , unless it was included as part of his rape conviction

"LE can continue to investigate, make more connections to continue building a strong circumstantial case against him because, for now, he's going nowhere. No reason to start the clock since he's in jail already."

There will definitely be a limit to the amount of resources are prepared to pour into this investigation, so it will not continue ad infinitum

LOL, PJ should have that so well documented...but maybe under the carpet.

 

[Mex]

While CB remains a suspect there is no need to revisited anything pre 2020
When he ceases to be a suspect is the time to look elsewhere. IMO

Of course CB remains relevant to criminal events which occurred prior to 2020. That is the whole point of the police investigation into his activities.

Just because we had never heard of him circa 2007 (and if we had it would all have made so much more sense) he was active in Luz.

CB himself admitted being nearby.

Snip
While German prosecutors say telecomms data shows CB received a phone call on 3 May 2007 near the Praia da Luz holiday apartment from which the three-year-old went missing, he now reportedly claims to have been miles from the scene in the company of a young German woman.

Madeleine McCann suspect claims he was having sex in camper van when she disappeared

‘Essential’ that truth is discovered, Kate and Gerry McCann say on 15th anniversary of daughter’s disappearance

www.independent.co.uk

Who by the way was unable to give him an alibi.

 

[Davieson]

Of course CB remains relevant to criminal events which occurred prior to 2020. That is the whole point of the police investigation into his activities.

Just because we had never heard of him circa 2007 (and if we had it would all have made so much more sense) he was active in Luz.

CB himself admitted being nearby.

Snip
While German prosecutors say telecomms data shows CB received a phone call on 3 May 2007 near the Praia da Luz holiday apartment from which the three-year-old went missing, he now reportedly claims to have been miles from the scene in the company of a young German woman.

Madeleine McCann suspect claims he was having sex in camper van when she disappeared

‘Essential’ that truth is discovered, Kate and Gerry McCann say on 15th anniversary of daughter’s disappearance

www.independent.co.uk

Who by the way was unable to give him an alibi.

What date and time do you think the alibi would need to be for ? Which particular crime did you have in mind ?