Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[Mex]

Responding to a number of ideas here in one post.

Personally I don't think the prosecutor indicts cases in such a 9D chess way.

Rather he simply charges the cases that meet the legal standard to be charged. I am more suggesting if he does get the conviction on the HB charge and CB collects a long sentence for it, he can be reasonably happy with the practical outcome of going public, if not the optics.

MM's case will be investigated as long as there is just cause for continuing with the investigation.

The obligation put on prosecutors under German Law willl assure that and if at all possible MM's case will be taken to trial as a result.
Snip
'Legalitatsprinzip, the German Rule of Compulsory Prosecution. Under this concept, the prosecutor is forbidden to refuse to prosecute in felonies and misdemeanours where there exists sufficient factual basis or probable cause to proceed.

CONTROLLING PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION IN GERMANY | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

 

[WestLondoner]

Is it worse to charge an innocent person than not charge a guilty one ?

It depends in part on the degree of your faith in the justice system in the place and time in question. Criminal charges in Mao's China would not get you a fair trial, for example.

Assuming however the justice system is not corrupt, it's better IMO to charge an innocent person. The criminal process that follows will either convict them justly, or exonerate them justly. Either outcome is good. Not charging a guilty person means that they go unpunished whether they did it or not, which is only the right outcome if they didn't do it.

So charging the innocent person has no bad outcomes, whereas not charging a guilty one does.

 

[WestLondoner]

...the prosecutor is forbidden to refuse to prosecute in felonies and misdemeanours where there exists sufficient factual basis or probable cause to proceed.

Quite a lot of wiggle room there even so, I would think. Someone, presumably the prosecutor, has to judge whether "there exists sufficient factual basis or probable cause to proceed". Who looks at the receipts?

In practice, it doesn't sound all that different from the rules the CPS, FCA etc work under in deciding whether to prosecute.

 

[Davieson]

It depends in part on the degree of your faith in the justice system in the place and time in question. Criminal charges in Mao's China would not get you a fair trial, for example.

Assuming however the justice system is not corrupt, it's better IMO to charge an innocent person. The criminal process that follows will either convict them justly, or exonerate them justly. Either outcome is good. Not charging a guilty person means that they go unpunished whether they did it or not, which is only the right outcome if they didn't do it.

So charging the innocent person has no bad outcomes, whereas not charging a guilty one does.

Except in those cases where people are wrongly convicted and spend time in prison for something they didn't do.
We've seen plenty of those of those over the years.

 

[WestLondoner]

Except in those cases where people are wrongly convicted and spend time in prison for something they didn't do.
We've seen plenty of those of those over the years.

Well, yes, which is why I say it depends on your faith in the justice system. It's why I oppose capital punishment - there will always be times you get it wrong.

 

[Anxala]

There is the alternative that he had nothing to do with MM.
Is it worse to charge an innocent person than not charge a guilty one ?

In this instance, to not charge him would be the absolute worst outcome for anyone who actually cares about the truth of this case.

Step up, HCW. You had no probs telling the world at large that CB was the MM answer 3 and a half years ago.

Put on your big boy pants now. Either charge him and allow the evidence against him to finally be put in the public domain and held up to the light, or be honest and admit that the 'evidence' that was so compelling back in June 2020 was flawed.

 

[RichardKimble]

In this instance, to not charge him would be the absolute worst outcome for anyone who actually cares about the truth of this case.

Step up, HCW. You had no probs telling the world at large that CB was the MM answer 3 and a half years ago.

Put on your big boy pants now. Either charge him and allow the evidence against him to finally be put in the public domain and held up to the light, or be honest and admit that the 'evidence' that was so compelling back in June 2020 was flawed.

CB was charged in Oct last year, that meant the investigative stage was ended in the other cases meaning all eyes could be turned to the MM case, either they are still investigating or charges should arrive soon.

 

[Mex]

In this instance, to not charge him would be the absolute worst outcome for anyone who actually cares about the truth of this case.

Step up, HCW. You had no probs telling the world at large that CB was the MM answer 3 and a half years ago.

Put on your big boy pants now. Either charge him and allow the evidence against him to finally be put in the public domain and held up to the light, or be honest and admit that the 'evidence' that was so compelling back in June 2020 was flawed.

For the sake of accuracy it is worth noting that June 2020 HCW said
Snip
“Due to the ongoing nature of this investigation no more information can be given out as to the facts surrounding this case, in particular neither individual details about the concrete criminal charges nor to the results of the investigation so far.”
Snip
The man since has been identified by sources in Portugal as C******** B*******.

German prosecutors believe Madeleine McCann is dead

State prosecutor says 43-year-old German being investigated on suspicion of murder

www.theguardian.com

 

[Denis R Tandib]

For the sake of accuracy it is worth noting that June 2020 HCW said
Snip
“Due to the ongoing nature of this investigation no more information can be given out as to the facts surrounding this case, in particular neither individual details about the concrete criminal charges nor to the results of the investigation so far.”
Snip
The man since has been identified by sources in Portugal as C******** B*******.

German prosecutors believe Madeleine McCann is dead

State prosecutor says 43-year-old German being investigated on suspicion of murder

www.theguardian.com

It’s equally accurate that in June 2020, he also said:

“We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead and that our suspect killed her.

We don't have the body and no parts of the body, but we have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine McCann."

It’s a problem that HCW has given so many informal and IMO loose statements to the media.

Irrespective, he has clearly stated that CB killed MM on several occasions and he has evidence to prove it.

The only reasonable course of action from here would be for him to lay charges and prove his statements in court.

I cannot see how it’s in anyone’s interests for him not to do it. If he doesn’t, the whole BKA case is dubious and should be remembered this way.

<modsnip: not an approved source>

 

[Mex]

It’s equally accurate that in June 2020, he also said:

“We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead and that our suspect killed her.

We don't have the body and no parts of the body, but we have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine McCann."

It’s a problem that HCW has given so many informal and IMO loose statements to the media.

Irrespective, he has clearly stated that CB killed MM on several occasions and he has evidence to prove it.

The only reasonable course of action from here would be for him to lay charges and prove his statements in court.

I cannot see how it’s in anyone’s interests for him not to do it. If he doesn’t, the whole BKA case is dubious and should be remembered this way.

This is The Sun quoting 60-Mins Australia:

Maddie cops 'have evidence she died' as they trawl suspect's buried vids & pics

MADELEINE McCann detectives insisted they have “strong evidence” she is dead after uncovering a trove of pictures and videos allegedly buried by suspect Christian B. German prosecutor H…

www.thesun.co.uk

Thankyou.

HCW did not name CB. He carefully referred to him throughout as "the suspect".

The anonymous Portuguese source named him.

 

[RichardKimble]

Thankyou.

HCW did not name CB. He carefully referred to him throughout as "the suspect".

The anonymous Portuguese source named him.

It matters who named him?

 

[RichardKimble]

It’s equally accurate that in June 2020, he also said:

“We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead and that our suspect killed her.

We don't have the body and no parts of the body, but we have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine McCann."

It’s a problem that HCW has given so many informal and IMO loose statements to the media.

Irrespective, he has clearly stated that CB killed MM on several occasions and he has evidence to prove it.

The only reasonable course of action from here would be for him to lay charges and prove his statements in court.

I cannot see how it’s in anyone’s interests for him not to do it. If he doesn’t, the whole BKA case is dubious and should be remembered this way.

This is The Sun quoting 60-Mins Australia:

Maddie cops 'have evidence she died' as they trawl suspect's buried vids & pics

MADELEINE McCann detectives insisted they have “strong evidence” she is dead after uncovering a trove of pictures and videos allegedly buried by suspect Christian B. German prosecutor H…

www.thesun.co.uk

Oct 2021 ,talk of charges in 2022, here we are another year on.See the mirror link.
Recently a main witness who is not a main witness but HCW felt the need to comment on is wavering?

Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann prosecutors say they have no body and no DNA but other evidence leads to only one conclusion - jailed rapist Christian Brueckner is guilty and could be charged next year

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Mex]

Oct 2021 ,talk of charges in 2022, here we are another year on.See the mirror link.
Recently a main witness who is not a main witness but HCW felt the need to comment on is wavering?

Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann prosecutors say they have no body and no DNA but other evidence leads to only one conclusion - jailed rapist Christian Brueckner is guilty and could be charged next year

www.mirror.co.uk

Snip
H B., whose full name has not been released by German authorities, is a former acquaintance of CB, the German suspect in the McCann case who's currently serving a prison sentence in his country for raping an elderly woman..
As a key witness in the case, HB. has been under protection for years by Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA).

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"

The man who led authorities probing the 2007 abduction of British toddler Madeleine McCann to a German national has spoken for the first time.

www.cbsnews.com

Snip
The terrified ex-girlfriend of Madeleine McCann suspect CB is now under police protection.
NM, 25, is in a safehouse in the German city of Braunschweig. Police are watching her because she is a key witness in the case against her violent ex.
Officers fear she could flee the country or may be attacked by one of CB’s accomplices.

Madeleine McCann suspect's 'terrified' ex-girlfriend under police protection

EXCLUSIVE Nakscije Miftari is being watched by police as she is a key witness in the case against Christian Brueckner, who has emerged as a prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance

www.mirror.co.uk

The best form of witness protection is anonymity. Which in the build up to a trial is what the German authorities have afforded vulnerable witnesses by not indicting the suspect CB. Resulting in neither their identity or witness statement being known.

These two known potential witnesses are uneasy with their situation. HB particularly so. As a person who frequented the underbelly of society as CB did he probably knows what he is up against and is a bit wobbly about it.

On the other hand he is a petty criminal who has had the police looking over his shoulder since his first contact with SY in the seventies. Can't have been comfortable for him.

 

[Mex]

It matters who named him?

Unfortunately it does matter when the factoid of misinformation has become prevalent.

The German authorities have never named CB in accordance with the law. It is wrong to promulgate misinformation that they did.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Unfortunately it does matter when the factoid of misinformation has become prevalent.

The German authorities have never named CB in accordance with the law. It is wrong to promulgate misinformation that they did.

Please explain the difference between "... our suspect Christian B, who lived in the Lagos area and drove this Jaguar and the VW Camper and is in prison for drug trafficking and rape etc, etc." and just naming him Christian Breuckner?

In the grand scheme, HCW has clarified who he is talking about. He has also been clear on the crimes CB has committed. Therefore, he has publicly asserted that CB is guilty of murdering MM.

<modsnip>

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Snip
H B., whose full name has not been released by German authorities, is a former acquaintance of CB, the German suspect in the McCann case who's currently serving a prison sentence in his country for raping an elderly woman..
As a key witness in the case, HB. has been under protection for years by Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA).

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"

The man who led authorities probing the 2007 abduction of British toddler Madeleine McCann to a German national has spoken for the first time.

www.cbsnews.com

Snip
The terrified ex-girlfriend of Madeleine McCann suspect CB is now under police protection.
NM, 25, is in a safehouse in the German city of Braunschweig. Police are watching her because she is a key witness in the case against her violent ex.
Officers fear she could flee the country or may be attacked by one of CB’s accomplices.

Madeleine McCann suspect's 'terrified' ex-girlfriend under police protection

EXCLUSIVE Nakscije Miftari is being watched by police as she is a key witness in the case against Christian Brueckner, who has emerged as a prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance

www.mirror.co.uk

The best form of witness protection is anonymity. Which in the build up to a trial is what the German authorities have afforded vulnerable witnesses by not indicting the suspect CB. Resulting in neither their identity or witness statement being known.

These two known potential witnesses are uneasy with their situation. HB particularly so. As a person who frequented the underbelly of society as CB did he probably knows what he is up against and is a bit wobbly about it.

On the other hand he is a petty criminal who has had the police looking over his shoulder since his first contact with SY in the seventies. Can't have been comfortable for him.

BIB - I don't understand this logic. HCW has stated they have only one suspect, CB. CB is widely regarded as a loner and a drifter. CB is currently in prison. From a criminal world perspective, all HeB has done is implicate a nonce.

I see no reason for HeB to be uneasy about anything. Even Charlie, CB's dog is dead and can do him no harm.

I can see how HeB might want to put the whole episode behind him given he has been involved for over six years. Perhaps, like many of us, he doesn't see the case progressing so he wants to bail out now. This seems a far more logical reason for him to want to walk away.

 

[RichardKimble]

Unfortunately it does matter when the factoid of misinformation has become prevalent.

The German authorities have never named CB in accordance with the law. It is wrong to promulgate misinformation that they did.

Well according to this article the German press named him, not that it matters one iota.

Maddie McCann suspect: Who is Christian B, man named as official suspect by Portugal police

Christian Brueckner was identified as a suspect in 2020 in Germany, but Portuguese prosecutors have now made him an official suspect over the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine

inews.co.uk

Brueckner was named in the German press as the prime suspect.

 

[Mex]

Well according to this article the German press named him, not that it matters one iota.

Maddie McCann suspect: Who is Christian B, man named as official suspect by Portugal police

Christian Brueckner was identified as a suspect in 2020 in Germany, but Portuguese prosecutors have now made him an official suspect over the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine

inews.co.uk

Brueckner was named in the German press as the prime suspect.

Not that it matters - the press may have named CB but the German authorities have not.
Is your cite German press?
The Web address is .uk.co

 

[Mex]

BIB - I don't understand this logic. HCW has stated they have only one suspect, CB. CB is widely regarded as a loner and a drifter. CB is currently in prison. From a criminal world perspective, all HeB has done is implicate a nonce.

I see no reason for HeB to be uneasy about anything. Even Charlie, CB's dog is dead and can do him no harm.

I can see how HeB might want to put the whole episode behind him given he has been involved for over six years. Perhaps, like many of us, he doesn't see the case progressing so he wants to bail out now. This seems a far more logical reason for him to want to walk away.

The progress of the MM case investigation is really nothing to do with individual witnesses or their preferences. It is all part of the legal process of which they are part if they are called.

There is no guarantee that HB will even be part of a trial against CB <modsnip: off topic>

Witness who helped re-launch Maddie probe says suspect is guilty

Helge Busching, 48, has broken his 12-year silence on former friend Christian Brueckner, the main suspect in Madeleine McCann's abduction, after he was tracked down to a village in Corsica, Greece.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

The progress of the MM case investigation is really nothing to do with individual witnesses or their preferences. It is all part of the legal process of which they are part if they are called.

There is no guarantee that HB will even be part of a trial against CB <modsnip>

Witness who helped re-launch Maddie probe says suspect is guilty

Helge Busching, 48, has broken his 12-year silence on former friend Christian Brueckner, the main suspect in Madeleine McCann's abduction, after he was tracked down to a village in Corsica, Greece.

www.dailymail.co.uk

From the Mail link In 2020 HeB had this to say.

When asked about the Madeleine investigation, Busching said: 'I am not allowed to say anything about Brueckner but I hope he stays in jail.'

2023. Madeleine McCann witness reveals what prime suspect told him for first time

Mr Busching told German outlet Bild: ‘The topic [of Madeleine’s disappearance] came up and I said: ”Anyway, I don’t understand how the little one could have disappeared without a trace.”

‘Christian had drunk two or three beers, and he said: ”She didn’t scream.”

Reliable witness? The whole is only as good as the sum of its parts.

Case against Madeleine suspect 'crumbling as witness threatens to pull plug'

A key witness in the case against Maddie McCann suspect Christian Brueckner is said to be in danger of withdrawing his testimony in court, putting the case at threat of falling apart

www.mirror.co.uk

A German source told The Sun : “Word is Busching is about to withdraw his evidence. He was paid a huge sum to repeat his statement in a German newspaper and now he’s pulling the plug. It just goes to show you what type of people you are dealing with - and their credibility as witnesses.”