Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[Mex]

Who decides the jurisdiction ? Can that be appealed ?
This could drag on for months more.

The accused is having a good bash at deciding the jurisdiction,
Snip
According to the court, the defendant himself had stated that he had a new residence in Saxony-Anhalt after his time in Braunschweig.

Landgericht nicht zuständig: Prozess gegen Verdächtigen im Fall Maddie geplatzt

Im Mai 2007 verschwand die damals dreijährige Britin Madeleine McCann aus einer Ferienanlage. Nun folgt die nächste Wende im mysteriösen Vermisstenfall.

www.hna.de

 

[mrjitty]

3 months yesterday then, surely this will be sorted by the end of the month ?!

Here is the correct link to that article

As HCW says, in the end it will be heard in one court or the other,

More interestingly he says MM case says with them unless/until charges are laid

Wirbel um Verdächtigen im Fall „Maddie“: Staatsanwaltschaft legt Beschwerde bei Gericht ein

Der Prozess gegen den Verdächtigen im Fall „Maddie“ ist vorerst geplatzt. Die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig legt Beschwerde beim Landgericht ein.

www.hna.de

 

[Mex]

Did Christian B. only have a fake address in Braunschweig?​

In doing so, it followed the defense's argument that Christian B. had only maintained a fake address in Braunschweig, but had actually lived on his own property in Neuwegersleben in Saxony-Anhalt before he fled abroad again.

The public prosecutor's office, on the other hand, considers Braunschweig to be the man's last German place of residence.

Fall Maddie: Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig bestätigt neue Suche

Bundeskriminalamt ist am Stausee in Portugal im Einsatz. Wohnort-Streit: Zuständigkeit der Braunschweiger Justiz für Christian B. weiterhin unklar.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

I'm finding it a little difficult to take this in. If this career criminal allegedly maintained a "fake" address it must have been registered. Why is the court indulging him and allowing a lie whichever way you look at it.

Between habitually living out of his van and friends' sofas or various properties here is an individual who has spent his life usually one step ahead of the authorities somewhere or other.
In fact the only time we can be reasonably sure of his whereabouts is when he is under lock and key.
The ECJ just did not entertain his lawyer's argument and it was argued
Snip
CB’s argument was “nonsensical”. He said: “The suspect made the most of European open borders and now he wants us to interpret the law so as to get it turned on its head in order to give him an advantage in court.”

European court of justice advises Madeleine McCann suspect was lawfully tried in rape case

Preliminary opinion a setback for Christian Brückner’s attempt to appeal conviction using European arrest warrant rules

www.theguardian.com

Snip
CB’s last registered address in Germany in 2016 had been in Brunswick, in the state of Lower Saxony, but purely for the sake of receiving mail, and he had not lived there, FF told German media.
He said the court in Brunsick had been wrong to assume that the registration was proof enough he had lived there.

Sex offences trial of Madeleine McCann suspect cancelled in Germany

Brunswick court says jurisdiction issue prevents it hearing case against Christian Brückner on charges unrelated to British toddler

www.theguardian.com

Snip
Photographs have revealed the inside of convicted paedophile CB's last-known address in Germany.
The revamped apartment in Braunschweig ... ...

Last-known address of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner

The apartment in Braunschweig, Germany, was reportedly left a mess when Christian Brueckner moved out. Brueckner is the key suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

3 months yesterday then, surely this will be sorted by the end of the month ?!

Not sure on that , are the German courts on a summer recess?

 

[mrjitty]

Not sure on that , are the German courts on a summer recess?

Unfortunately the reporting is not very detailed, which is kind of expected given the lack of general media interest in this procedural stuff.

I know nothing about german appellate procedure. The various article(s) appear to say that HCW's team has made a complaint back in the regional court and await a justification. I guess this is some kind of reconsideration.

After that would come an appeal to a higher court.

 

[mrjitty]

It's worth repeating in germany it is not uncommon for people not to actually live where they are registered. I have personally seen all of the following

1. Person has a nice apartment, but since moved in with a life partner, but kept the flat as a shared flat or rents on Airbnb. They stay registered at the apartment in order to keep the head lease (this is not allowed but common enough)

2. People claim to live somewhere to be in zone for a school with help of friends. This is basically a mail box address where they don't live. This is illegal but a lot of people do this where schools are hard to get in to.

3. People actually live somewhere that can't be registered - e.g a summer house.

4. You didn't get round to registering yet because reasons.

Situation 3 is the CB case (perhaps with a bit of 4). He fled his registered address but came back and appeared to live at the box factory and perhaps an allotment. You can't just register any old place as your registered address as actual documentation is needed. Plus he had problems with the police. Hence why he likely never re-registered.

The reality is, wherever he lived, it wasn't his old registered address. So it's question of evidence where he actually lived.

The decision of the Regional Court appears correct to me, based on what we know

 

[RichardKimble]

Unfortunately the reporting is not very detailed, which is kind of expected given the lack of general media interest in this procedural stuff.

I know nothing about german appellate procedure. The various article(s) appear to say that HCW's team has made a complaint back in the regional court and await a justification. I guess this is some kind of reconsideration.

After that would come an appeal to a higher court.

With CB not going anywhere any time soon, it's likely not to be a urgent decision to be arrived at.

 

[mrjitty]

With CB not going anywhere any time soon, it's likely not to be a urgent decision to be arrived at.

I have no idea what a normal appellate time table is in Germany. It's a very bureaucratic country.

 

[Mex]

It's worth repeating in germany it is not uncommon for people not to actually live where they are registered. I have personally seen all of the following

1. Person has a nice apartment, but since moved in with a life partner, but kept the flat as a shared flat or rents on Airbnb. They stay registered at the apartment in order to keep the head lease (this is not allowed but common enough)

2. People claim to live somewhere to be in zone for a school with help of friends. This is basically a mail box address where they don't live. This is illegal but a lot of people do this where schools are hard to get in to.

3. People actually live somewhere that can't be registered - e.g a summer house.

4. You didn't get round to registering yet because reasons.

Situation 3 is the CB case (perhaps with a bit of 4). He fled his registered address but came back and appeared to live at the box factory and perhaps an allotment. You can't just register any old place as your registered address as actual documentation is needed. Plus he had problems with the police. Hence why he likely never re-registered.

The reality is, wherever he lived, it wasn't his old registered address. So it's question of evidence where he actually lived.

The decision of the Regional Court appears correct to me, based on what we know

I suppose being in Italy on the run from the police would indeed fit into one of the categories you have detailed.

Snip
EXCLUSIVE: CB was seized by armed officers in Milan while on the run from his home country Germany. The arrest took place in 2018 and was Brueckner’s last moment of freedom.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'walked into police trap dirty and unshaven with bible'

EXCLUSIVE: Christian Brueckner was seized by armed officers in Milan while on the run from his home country Germany. The arrest took place in 2018 and was Brueckner’s last moment of freedom

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Mex]

I have no idea what a normal appellate time table is in Germany. It's a very bureaucratic country.

I think it may be a lengthy one particularly if the court summer recess is taken into account.
Earlier in the thread Martin Brunt said that the German spokesman had told him of the probability the MM case would run into next year. Sounds like the voice of experience.

 

[mrjitty]

I suppose being in Italy on the run from the police would indeed fit into one of the categories you have detailed.

RSBM. The question is where was his last residence before he went on the run.

It seems to me that he had indeed returned to Germany since he fled the flat in Braunschweig.

I've not seen HCWs pleadings but from what he has said in the media, I am not actually sure what case he makes that the Court decision was incorrect. He wants to rely on the last registered address, but if that was the law, the statute would say that. And we know he did not live where he was registered.

 

[Mex]

RSBM. The question is where was his last residence before he went on the run.

It seems to me that he had indeed returned to Germany since he fled the flat in Braunschweig.

I've not seen HCWs pleadings but from what he has said in the media, I am not actually sure what case he makes that the Court decision was incorrect. He wants to rely on the last registered address, but if that was the law, the statute would say that. And we know he did not live where he was registered.

I'm not sure we know anything at all about CB who is without doubt, an inveterate liar. I for one would not believe a word attributable to him if it comes out of his mouth.

The chances of finding his whereabouts or what he was getting up to at any moment in time are negligible. He just cannot be pinned down except when he is in police custody.

According to police reports he was in dire straights when he showed face in Italy as a down and out. We know nothing about the circumstances behind his destitution despite apparently having a property empire to choose from in Germany.

No documents finally trapped him in the Europe of open borders where he was obviously in dire straights.

Nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in the tale he was going to weave to get new documents and the address he was going to use for his passport.

Snip
The German had just arrived from Switzerland and said he needed new ID documents because they had been stolen from him on the train.
When the police found the drug conviction they arranged an international arrest warrant and set up the fake appointment.
_________________________________

Now that CB is being investigated in the MM case his activities in Italy before his arrest are being looked at.

However, it is difficult to do this because there is no record of when he entered Italy or what he did there.

Italian police set a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Brueckner

Italian police set up a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner by making a fake appointment for a new passport at the German consulate in Milan, it has emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mex]

I'm not sure we know anything at all about CB who is without doubt, an inveterate liar. I for one would not believe a word attributable to him if it comes out of his mouth.

The chances of finding his whereabouts or what he was getting up to at any moment in time are negligible. He just cannot be pinned down except when he is in police custody.

According to police reports he was in dire straights when he showed face in Italy as a down and out. We know nothing about the circumstances behind his destitution despite apparently having a property empire to choose from in Germany.

No documents finally trapped him in the Europe of open borders where he was obviously in dire straights.

Nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in the tale he was going to weave to get new documents and the address he was going to use for his passport.

Snip
The German had just arrived from Switzerland and said he needed new ID documents because they had been stolen from him on the train.
When the police found the drug conviction they arranged an international arrest warrant and set up the fake appointment.
_________________________________

Now that CB is being investigated in the MM case his activities in Italy before his arrest are being looked at.

However, it is difficult to do this because there is no record of when he entered Italy or what he did there.

Italian police set a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Brueckner

Italian police set up a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner by making a fake appointment for a new passport at the German consulate in Milan, it has emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

CB carried his lawyer's phone number on his person when keeping his appointment with the Italian police.

Unsurprisingly he didn't have a phone with him.

Wonder where it was? It would have made sense for him to have hidden it in preference to walking into a police station carrying it with him.

 

[Trivento]

I'm not sure we know anything at all about CB who is without doubt, an inveterate liar. I for one would not believe a word attributable to him if it comes out of his mouth.

The chances of finding his whereabouts or what he was getting up to at any moment in time are negligible. He just cannot be pinned down except when he is in police custody.

According to police reports he was in dire straights when he showed face in Italy as a down and out. We know nothing about the circumstances behind his destitution despite apparently having a property empire to choose from in Germany.

No documents finally trapped him in the Europe of open borders where he was obviously in dire straights.

Nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in the tale he was going to weave to get new documents and the address he was going to use for his passport.

Snip
The German had just arrived from Switzerland and said he needed new ID documents because they had been stolen from him on the train.
When the police found the drug conviction they arranged an international arrest warrant and set up the fake appointment.
_________________________________

Now that CB is being investigated in the MM case his activities in Italy before his arrest are being looked at.

However, it is difficult to do this because there is no record of when he entered Italy or what he did there.

Italian police set a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Brueckner

Italian police set up a trap for Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner by making a fake appointment for a new passport at the German consulate in Milan, it has emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Noticed the Italian Police / Mail article mentions CB was wearing a military style jacket …

Reminded me of a clip I posted some time ago from Dragon Festival 2009 ..
At 3.57 there is someone that imo looks like CB in that type of jacket .
Not sure if any significance to it though , even if is CB , other than perhaps might be interesting to know who is with him in the clip ( link below ) .

 

[frank-cole]

What would be the logic for prosecutors to charge CB for crimes against MM at this moment in time?

The process would go nowhere.

It would be bogged down in the jurisdiction argument which has prevented the five crimes CB was charged with at the end of 2022 being brought to trial.

Even if they already have enough evidence to support an indictment in the MM case, where is the logic in the authorities handing over all they have on CB and his crimes when they don't have to.

Particularly since it won't be a progression towards prosecution. CB won't be charged until jurisdiction is resolved. Why would anyone think he should be and why would anyone think there is reasoning other than jurisdiction for the delay.
My opinion

Completely agree. IMO even if the jurisdictional technicality wasn’t a factor they’d still refrain from making any move in the MM case until the other 5 cases have concluded. FF playing the technicality card (after having a considerable amount of time with the evidence files) enables much more time before proceedings. That law is beneficial to & allows transient German citizens more of an opportunity than it does German citizens who live in a permanent residence.

I don’t think the prosecutors would make any MM case move early, it wouldn’t be logical to allow the defence months/years with the evidence files. IMO they have defence lawyer who seems sound with technicality & less sound with challenging the evidence. So with the prospect of technicality slow balling & 500000 criminal cases pending in Germany (up 30% from pre-pandemic levels), IMO they’ll time it for when the road is clearer & after the appeals process finishes in the other cases.

 

[Mex]

Completely agree. IMO even if the jurisdictional technicality wasn’t a factor they’d still refrain from making any move in the MM case until the other 5 cases have concluded. FF playing the technicality card (after having a considerable amount of time with the evidence files) enables much more time before proceedings. That law is beneficial to & allows transient German citizens more of an opportunity than it does German citizens who live in a permanent residence.

I don’t think the prosecutors would make any MM case move early, it wouldn’t be logical to allow the defence months/years with the evidence files. IMO they have defence lawyer who seems sound with technicality & less sound with challenging the evidence. So with the prospect of technicality slow balling & 500000 criminal cases pending in Germany (up 30% from pre-pandemic levels), IMO they’ll time it for when the road is clearer & after the appeals process finishes in the other cases.

What struck me is the point you have made regarding individuals like CB having the ability to utilise such technicalities to their own advantage. I don't think the intention of that law was to allow career criminals the ability to play fast and loose with the system.

So far as I can see the only supposed verification of CB's last known residence in Germany is the land registration of derelict industrial buildings in his ownership in Neuwegersleben and his word that he was resident there.

 

[Davieson]

Laws often have unintended consequences

 

[mrjitty]

Laws often have unintended consequences

I'd argue this is the intended consequence.

HCW knew CB fled the Braunschweig flat, and that he was resident in some way at the box factory because they raided it. We have the reporting that CB was based there at least for some time.

The idea there is some special advantage to CB or others who leave the country and return is not accurate. Prosecutors could simply have filed the case in the correct jurisdiction.

We need to keep in mind that it would always be better for the prosecution if they could pick and chose which parts of criminal procedure they need to follow. We have these rules often not because of the justice of a particular case but for wider questions of justice. Otherwise prosecutors could simply file in the wrong jurisdiction whenever they felt like it.

I realise the price seems step (followers on the Morphew murder case experienced this keenly) but also we don't live in an authoritarian regime and this is the price that sometimes has to be paid.

I would also stress, the actual price is low. HCW can simply refile in correct jurisdiction instead of appealing. Nothing stopped him doing that.

 

[RichardKimble]

I'd argue this is the intended consequence.

HCW knew CB fled the Braunschweig flat, and that he was resident in some way at the box factory because they raided it. We have the reporting that CB was based there at least for some time

The idea there is some special advantage to CB or others who leave the country and return is not accurate. Prosecutors could simply have filed the case in the correct jurisdiction.

We need to keep in mind that it would always be better for the prosecution if they could pick and chose which parts of criminal procedure they need to follow. We have these rules often not because of the justice of a particular case but for wider questions of justice. Otherwise prosecutors could simply file in the wrong jurisdiction whenever they felt like it.

I realise the price seems step (followers on the Morphew murder case experienced this keenly) but also we don't live in an authoritarian regime and this is the price that sometimes has to be paid.

I would also stress, the actual price is low. HCW can simply refile in correct jurisdiction instead of appealing. Nothing stopped him doing that.

BIB, HCW could and surely should have checked, reports say FF was raising the issue before the indictments.

In a statement to MailOnline Mr Fulscher said: 'In its decision of April 19, 2023, the Regional Court of Braunschweig declared that it had no jurisdiction over the charge against Christian B. and revoked the arrest warrant against him.

'The defense already pointed out during the preliminary proceedings that the Braunschweig judiciary should not have local jurisdiction.

Madeleine McCann suspect may not face charges in Germany

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner may not face charges in Germany after a court there ruled prosecutors had no jurisdiction to pursue a case against him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

I'd argue this is the intended consequence.

HCW knew CB fled the Braunschweig flat, and that he was resident in some way at the box factory because they raided it. We have the reporting that CB was based there at least for some time.

The idea there is some special advantage to CB or others who leave the country and return is not accurate. Prosecutors could simply have filed the case in the correct jurisdiction.

We need to keep in mind that it would always be better for the prosecution if they could pick and chose which parts of criminal procedure they need to follow. We have these rules often not because of the justice of a particular case but for wider questions of justice. Otherwise prosecutors could simply file in the wrong jurisdiction whenever they felt like it.

I realise the price seems step (followers on the Morphew murder case experienced this keenly) but also we don't live in an authoritarian regime and this is the price that sometimes has to be paid.

I would also stress, the actual price is low. HCW can simply refile in correct jurisdiction instead of appealing. Nothing stopped him doing that.

Can he ? Can a regional prosecutor file charges in another regional court ? Would that not be outside their remit ?