Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[mrjitty]

The rule of law is being followed. That is the whole point.

We'd all prefer to see the Court just skip to the substance/justice part but often times procedure means strict adherence to the law i.e what does the criminal law actually say.

 

[mrjitty]

And even then, maybe not. Not everyone would regard the MM case as a 'get' as it's so riddled with messy history. HCW clearly has the enthusiasm required but I'm not sure others would view it with quite the same passion, world stage or not.

But academic I think, as I doubt very much CB will ever be charged.

I do wonder if it creates an off ramp for Braunschweig.

Wonder what BKA's investigative stance is and how much resource they have on it?

 

[RichardKimble]

I do wonder if it creates an off ramp for Braunschweig.

Wonder what BKA's investigative stance is and how much resource they have on it?

If the evidence or proof cannot or will not be revealed then all the resources in the world won't overcome that.

 

[RichardKimble]

I do wonder if it creates an off ramp for Braunschweig.

Wonder what BKA's investigative stance is and how much resource they have on it?

BIB, 12 months after the digs in Luz, OG was scaled back, also after having suspects, wonder if any parallels will be drawn here.

 

[mrjitty]

BIB, 12 months after the digs in Luz, OG was scaled back, also after having suspects, wonder if any parallels will be drawn here.

My nagging doubt all along is what can they really be working on 3 years later?

I get after they went public, they will have got loads of investigative leads to work up. But that seems harder to believe now. And the dig was apparently a new tip which came to nothing (or did it?)

At some point they will either charge or scale back - like it's hard to imagine this being as heavily resourced in a 4th year? What would they be doing?

ETA: i don't include the trial in that. That will have separate litigation resource, not investigative.

 

[Anxala]

My nagging doubt all along is what can they really be working on 3 years later?

I get after they went public, they will have got loads of investigative leads to work up. But that seems harder to believe now. And the dig was apparently a new tip which came to nothing (or did it?)

At some point they will either charge or scale back - like it's hard to imagine this being as heavily resourced in a 4th year? What would they be doing?

ETA: i don't include the trial in that. That will have separate litigation resource, not investigative.

It's been resourced for longer than 3 years. There must have been a least a year's worth of work (manpower and money) gone into the MM investigation before HCW went public with it in June 2020, don't you think. So 4, possibly even 5 years already. That's a long time to still be at the stage where they can't, with confidence, charge. And I'm basing that on HCW's own relatively recent words - the quote's somewhere on the thread - where he more or less said as much, not to be expecting a MM charge anytime soon...

Not that I'm saying one has anything to do with the other (I know they don't), but I wonder if successful conviction on the pending cases (HazelB in particular, and the 2 child ones) might drive what happens next in terms of ongoing resourcing of the MM case against CB - ie. that a conviction might give weight to further resourcing being greenlit? That one might impact the other? And vice versa, as per what @RichardKimble says above (#364) re OG's scaling back?

Although as you say, what could they be looking for/at at this stage? I really can't imagine other than living off hope that something will turn up and persistence will eventually pay off.

 

[Anxala]

It has all become terribly messy and there is obviously a movement afoot which would like the final outcome of the MM case to be oblivion. Despite that would allow CB the freedom to follow pursuits such as those with which there was sufficient evidence to charge him and bring him to trial. And extraordinarily that support for that outcome is not confined to CB and his defence.

I don't think there's any movement afoot, just acknowledgement, for perfectly valid reasons, that a charge against CB is looking increasingly unlikely in the MM case. For those of us who've followed the case from the off, the past can't be just brushed aside because it fails to inconveniently tally with the present.

You're yet again mistaking that position as one of support for CB when it's actually bugger all to do with CB and everything to do with HCW, and reconciling the known, documented circumstances and facts surrounding the 2007 disappearance of MM with HCW's 2020 and ongoing claims. It's about HCW, not CB.

Not everything is a conspiracy. And I will leave it there.

And as far as I can see, pretty much everyone on this thread is hopeful that the pending charges (when they finally find a home) will result in successful convictions against CB so that he remains behind bars where he belongs, no danger to anyone. Which further dilutes your 'support for CB' theory as being at the root of the doubt expressed on here.

 

[Mex]

I do wonder if it creates an off ramp for Braunschweig.

Wonder what BKA's investigative stance is and how much resource they have on it?

I would imagine the investigative side track to consist of garnering information of relevance to appealing the jurisdiction ruling.

 

[Mex]

BIB, 12 months after the digs in Luz, OG was scaled back, also after having suspects, wonder if any parallels will be drawn here.

It is probably doubtful for other inferences to be drawn from the extensive searches in Luz in conjunction with interviews circa 2014 with more recent events in the MM case.

It was all just part of the process at the time and is all history now that times have firmly moved on to 2023 and a confirmed prime suspect in crime against MM.

Witnesses were interviewed with some requesting the protection offered as arguidos. Not one of whom failed to be eliminated from the investigation which allowed the process to proceed to the next step.

Snip
British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have arrived in Portugal to assist Portuguese authorities with the questioning of 11 "key witnesses".

Detectives from Scotland Yard have flown to Faro as part of Operation Grange and will spend three days overseeing the questioning of four British people and seven Portuguese citizens.

Scotland Yard has refused to comment on the latest development, saying it will not provide a "running commentary" on the investigation, the Daily Telegraph reports.

What happened to Madeleine McCann? A timeline of the case | The Week UK

German prosecutors say ‘prime suspect’ in the disappearance will be charged in relation to other crimes

www.theweek.co.uk

My opinion - 2014 was part of the process which has led the MM inquiry over a rough investigative path to where they are today. I see no parallels unless you can point us in the right direction to them.

 

[Mex]

My nagging doubt all along is what can they really be working on 3 years later?

I get after they went public, they will have got loads of investigative leads to work up. But that seems harder to believe now. And the dig was apparently a new tip which came to nothing (or did it?)

At some point they will either charge or scale back - like it's hard to imagine this being as heavily resourced in a 4th year? What would they be doing?

ETA: i don't include the trial in that. That will have separate litigation resource, not investigative.

I doubt the BKA, the PJ and NSY have been working flat out on the MM case to the exclusion of all the other duties which take up police investigative time.

Arising from the BKA involvement with CB prime suspect in the MM case the crimes against DM were solved in 2019.

CB was indicted for five other serious sexual crimes in 2022. Considering that these cold case crimes cover a period dating from 2004 and all requiring evidence gathering and investigation the work-rate seems quite adequate.

In the interim the MM case continues and if that is so there remain leads to be followed.
My opinion

Snip

2020​

June - German police say they have a new suspect and appeal for information about a German man currently imprisoned in Germany for sexual assault offences. Convicted abuser and drug trader CB was likely responsible for her disappearance, they say. A German prosecutor says that MM is assumed to be dead.

July - Portuguese authorities explore three disused wells but find no evidence of a body. German police search an allotment near Hanover.

2022​

April - Portuguese prosecutors formally identify CB as a suspect in the disappearance. It is the first time they have named one since K and G M were named in 2007.

May - New evidence has been found, potentially incriminating the key suspect in MM's disappearance, said the German prosecutor investigating the case.

2023​

May - Portuguese authorities assisted by German police on Tuesday 23 May begin searching a reservoir near the area where MM went missing.

Key dates in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

Three-year-old Madeleine McCann, from Rothley, Leicestershire in central England, disappeared on May 3, 2007 during a holiday with her parents in the Algarve region of southern Portugal.

www.reuters.com

 

[Mex]

It's been resourced for longer than 3 years. There must have been a least a year's worth of work (manpower and money) gone into the MM investigation before HCW went public with it in June 2020, don't you think. So 4, possibly even 5 years already. That's a long time to still be at the stage where they can't, with confidence, charge. And I'm basing that on HCW's own relatively recent words - the quote's somewhere on the thread - where he more or less said as much, not to be expecting a MM charge anytime soon...

Not that I'm saying one has anything to do with the other (I know they don't), but I wonder if successful conviction on the pending cases (HazelB in particular, and the 2 child ones) might drive what happens next in terms of ongoing resourcing of the MM case against CB - ie. that a conviction might give weight to further resourcing being greenlit? That one might impact the other? And vice versa, as per what @RichardKimble says above (#364) re OG's scaling back?

Although as you say, what could they be looking for/at at this stage? I really can't imagine other than living off hope that something will turn up and persistence will eventually pay off.

CB’s crime of aggravated rape and torture of DM is a stand alone case which was tried on its own merit.

Similarly HB’s aggravated rape and torture for which CB was charged is a stand alone crime. As are the other four charges of sexual crimes made against CB.

Should HB’s case and the other four ever be brought to trial as they should, not one of the five is any more reliant one to the other than any of them were to DM.
Each case will stand or fall on its merits and on supporting evidence.

Just as DM's was.

Just as MM’s case will be whether it is presented for trial in Germany or in Portugal.
Some may think think the BKA are hanging around trusting to luck in MM's case. Their reticence is understandable if it is as a result of keeping hold of the evidence gathered against CB very close to the chest for as long as possible.
Recent events shows how sensible that tactic has worked out to be.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

I don't think there's any movement afoot, just acknowledgement, for perfectly valid reasons, that a charge against CB is looking increasingly unlikely in the MM case. For those of us who've followed the case from the off, the past can't be just brushed aside because it fails to inconveniently tally with the present.

You're yet again mistaking that position as one of support for CB when it's actually bugger all to do with CB and everything to do with HCW, and reconciling the known, documented circumstances and facts surrounding the 2007 disappearance of MM with HCW's 2020 and ongoing claims. It's about HCW, not CB.

Not everything is a conspiracy. And I will leave it there.

And as far as I can see, pretty much everyone on this thread is hopeful that the pending charges (when they finally find a home) will result in successful convictions against CB so that he remains behind bars where he belongs, no danger to anyone. Which further dilutes your 'support for CB' theory as being at the root of the doubt expressed on here.

Regretfully I think you may have misinterpreted my post

 

[mrjitty]

It's been resourced for longer than 3 years. There must have been a least a year's worth of work (manpower and money) gone into the MM investigation before HCW went public with it in June 2020, don't you think. So 4, possibly even 5 years already. That's a long time to still be at the stage where they can't, with confidence, charge. And I'm basing that on HCW's own relatively recent words - the quote's somewhere on the thread - where he more or less said as much, not to be expecting a MM charge anytime soon...

Not that I'm saying one has anything to do with the other (I know they don't), but I wonder if successful conviction on the pending cases (HazelB in particular, and the 2 child ones) might drive what happens next in terms of ongoing resourcing of the MM case against CB - ie. that a conviction might give weight to further resourcing being greenlit? That one might impact the other? And vice versa, as per what @RichardKimble says above (#364) re OG's scaling back?

Although as you say, what could they be looking for/at at this stage? I really can't imagine other than living off hope that something will turn up and persistence will eventually pay off.

I doubt the result of the HB case will influence the MM case. Resolution of jurisdiction, trial and conclusion of the HB case will likely take well into 2024, and doesn't involve BKA. I think the main question is does BKA have promising investigative leads to work on? It's hard to imagine what these can be 3+ years after the appeal, unless someone comes forward with something new, or there is a discovery of the body,

02c

 

[Mex]

I doubt the result of the HB case will influence the MM case. Resolution of jurisdiction, trial and conclusion of the HB case will likely take well into 2024, and doesn't involve BKA. I think the main question is does BKA have promising investigative leads to work on? It's hard to imagine what these can be 3+ years after the appeal, unless someone comes forward with something new, or there is a discovery of the body,

02c

Agreed that all the intimations are that indeed that the investigation into the MM case is still working from evidence and information which continues to come in and which continues to be acted upon if at all feasible .

Snip
Sources in Portugal point to an informant giving police a specific tip-off that CB visited the site just days after MM went missing from her room in Praia da Luz.

This tip-off is believed to have been matched with geolocation clues found in the convicted paedophile's stash of 8,000 of videos and images.

Together it is thought these clues combined sparked the search at the remote site.

'Please don’t expect too much': Detectives hunting reservoir for Madeleine McCann issue update

Police who spent days scouring a Portuguese dam for clues about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have warned the public not to "expect too much" from their finds.

www.lbc.co.uk

As for the HB aggravated rape case and the other four serious sex crimes with which CB has been charged, these are obviously temporarily impeded until the jurisdiction process is settled.

Logically the implication must be that in Germany, MM's case will be affected by the settlement of the same process of deciding the locus for trial. Fortunately the Portuguese authorities have taken steps which allow CB to be tried in Portugal should the evidence allow it.

Snip
A suspect has been formally identified in the case of missing British toddler MM, according to a statement by the Prosecutor’s Office in Faro, Portugal.
Snip
CB's lawyer said he believed the latest “measure taken by the Portuguese authorities should not be overestimated.” Instead, the lawyer said, the latest development could be seen as a formal legal tool. “In Portugal, the statute of limitations for murder is 15 years, if the period isn’t interrupted. The latter has now been done – presumably out of caution. I do not assume there to be any new findings,” FF added.

Prosecutors said the investigation has been carried out with cooperation from British and German authorities.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/22/world/madeleine-mccann-case-portuguese-formal-suspect-intl-scli/index.html

 

[Anxala]

I doubt the result of the HB case will influence the MM case. Resolution of jurisdiction, trial and conclusion of the HB case will likely take well into 2024, and doesn't involve BKA. I think the main question is does BKA have promising investigative leads to work on? It's hard to imagine what these can be 3+ years after the appeal, unless someone comes forward with something new, or there is a discovery of the body,

02c

^ Thanks for that, it was the bit I was a little hazy on in that I had some vague impression that everything CB-related was more or less on hold and at a standstill until the jurisdiction issue was resolved.

Maybe if they've exhausted all current avenues, they could go back to the beginning and start working forward rather than backwards. Just a thought, should HCW be reading and wondering what to do next...

 

[Davieson]

^ Thanks for that, it was the bit I was a little hazy on in that I had some vague impression that everything CB-related was more or less on hold and at a standstill until the jurisdiction issue was resolved.

Maybe if they've exhausted all current avenues, they could go back to the beginning and start working forward rather than backwards. Just a thought, should HCW be reading and wondering what to do next...

Why would they do that?
If it didn't lead to CB,they wouldn't be interested.

 

[Anxala]

Regretfully I think you may have misinterpreted my post

I really don't think I have. But, no matter, you have your position, I have mine.

What I would say is that mine, at least, has a solid foundation and is based upon known facts that really do not point to CB being the answer here, as opposed to yours which seems to rely entirely upon your assumption that HCW must be in possession of evidence that counters the known historical facts. Despite you not knowing what that evidence is?

Yeah. I'm happy in the interim to remain exactly where I am.

If/when HCW ever delivers, I'll of course be open to and interested to hear what he has to say. Until then...

 

[Anxala]

Why would they do that?
If it didn't lead to CB,they wouldn't be interested.

I was just trying to be helpful, trying to lend a hand to someone in need.

 

[mrjitty]

^ Thanks for that, it was the bit I was a little hazy on in that I had some vague impression that everything CB-related was more or less on hold and at a standstill until the jurisdiction issue was resolved.

Maybe if they've exhausted all current avenues, they could go back to the beginning and start working forward rather than backwards. Just a thought, should HCW be reading and wondering what to do next...

The only way I can see it would be impacted is if HCW is about to charge him but now needs to wait for jurisdiction to be resolved. But I am not sure I believe that.

if they are just investigating and working through leads - then that is not impacted

 

[Mex]

The only way I can see it would be impacted is if HCW is about to charge him but now needs to wait for jurisdiction to be resolved. But I am not sure I believe that.

if they are just investigating and working through leads - then that is not impacted

I think you have hit the nail on the head with that observation.

• The lower Braunschweig court ruled itself as being not competent to take CB to trial because of a jurisdiction issue.
• This resulted in the five charges for serious crimes made against him being set aside until that issue is resolved.
• The jurisdiction issue relates to all charges against CB made by the Braunschweig prosecutors.
• What would it profit the Braunschweig prosecutors to proceed with charges against CB in MM's case until the jurisdiction issue is resolved once and for all.

Madeleine McCann suspect may not face charges in Germany

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner may not face charges in Germany after a court there ruled prosecutors had no jurisdiction to pursue a case against him.

www.dailymail.co.uk