Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[Denis R Tandib]

Ref the box factory pics, do they actually exist? HCW has never made mention of them , no charges have been made in relation to them.If they exist are they indecent.

There has been multiple reports of the mages and in the MWT doco referred to the search report. I think they exists but everyone can form their own opinion.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

So a Sun article says CB served time over the images found on the sticks, if so there was nothing linking them to MM, 2015 was the year the search and resulting find occurred, A Mail article says 2016 and only that he was charged over the images, a Sky article also says 2016, so to answer my own question it certainly seems as if he did possess the images and was convicted over them. 2017 the 10th anniversary appeal resulted in CB's name coming up in relation to MM, allegedly.

He doesn’t have a conviction for the images at the box factory. The offence you mention relates to the abuse and photographs of his girlfriends daughter in 2012. He was found guilty later, in 2017, I think.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Well JC of Olive Press says 20,000 images.IMO it matters not, none again imo relate to MM.

He’s the only one who says 20k. He also got confused with multiple bodies and a bra strap.

 

[RichardKimble]

He doesn’t have a conviction for the images at the box factory. The offence you mention relates to the abuse and photographs of his girlfriends daughter in 2012. He was found guilty later, in 2017, I think.

Looking at various articles it's contradictory, still whether he did or didn't in the grand scheme of things only matters to those trying to paint a picture of CB the murderer.
There's nothing in the images that linked CB to MM imo, the specifics of the appeal in 2020 were concerned with his movements, phone calls and vechiles.

 

[RichardKimble]

He’s the only one who says 20k. He also got confused with multiple bodies and a bra strap.

Quite ,it's implied he has the ear of HCW though, so if the 12,000 extra he is claiming didn't exist did the first 8,000.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Looking at various articles it's contradictory, still whether he did or didn't in the grand scheme of things only matters to those trying to paint a picture of CB the murderer.
There's nothing in the images that linked CB to MM imo, the specifics of the appeal in 2020 were concerned with his movements, phone calls and vechiles.

Yes, the appeal was all about putting him in PDL around 3 May.

I am certain the storage devices were found buried under Charlie at the box factory, I think this is beyond question really.

But I agree with you that the images do not show MM nor do they connect CB to MM.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Quite ,it's implied he has the ear of HCW though, so if the 12,000 extra he is claiming didn't exist did the first 8,000.

I just think he exaggerated the number.

 

[Mex]

Yes, that’s what he needs, but what does he have that got this case this far?

Compelling evidence?

The source of witness testimony doesn't have to emanate from CB's criminal fraternity.

The chain of evidence can all be as simple as information given at the time which might have been overlooked and ignored.
In the MM early investigation there are many instances of just that, Which when rectified may well indicate relevance to individuals of interest to today's MM investigation.

Snip
The Sunday Express can reveal that a British woman staying at the Ocean Club saw a “suspicious” couple loitering around the complex.
On May 2, the day before Madeleine vanished, the woman saw the couple sitting on a hill overlooking tennis courts used by MM's parents.
Just by the courts is a grassy area where the couple, MM and twins S and A, played regularly in the afternoons.
The woman, whose toddler daughter became friendly with MM at the children’s club, said the suspicious woman was talking and pointing while the man with her looked “nervous”.
The following day at 1.30pm she saw the same couple standing near her apartment at the holiday complex and later told the McC’ private investigators that she thought their behaviour was “suspicious”.
It is not believed that the couple have been traced or identified.

Madeleine McCann: The lost clues

CRUCIAL leads that could solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance are revealed today by the Sunday Express.

www.express.co.uk

I'm a civilian but I can see how that witness statement could have been explained or developed further.

It is worth remembering that it was only in 2013 that a putative ID of the child carrier JT witnessed was made.

 

[Anxala]

You might be right, but HCW stated that it was like a puzzle with many pieces but no forensic evidence.

Therefore, phone call, Jag, CB’s history and profile, Das Buch and multiple witness statements and I think that could be considered compelling.

Actually yes, in theory, when you place all those elements side by side (particularly as we're not privy to the details of the witness statements or the contents of Das Buch), they combined could certainly constitute compelling evidence. And could equally I suppose give substance (from HCW's perspective anyway) to the 'If you knew what I know, you too would come to the same conclusion' claim.

Look at it from another angle, what could HCW have in addition to the above that still prevents charges being laid. If he has photos or footage, I don’t think he does, then the case is strong enough to get a conviction.

He certainly doesn't have any imagery, still or otherwise, featuring MM and CB. We know this, he's said as much. But he's always been careful to say exactly that, no imagery of them together, allowing for speculation that he might have imagery of MM post-disappearance on her own. Personally, I don't believe he has since if he had - an image of MM found on CB's hardware, taken after she disappeared! - that would surely be enough for any judge to give the go ahead for a trial.

It’s important to try and work out what evidence he could have beyond the above that strengthens the case but still leaves it in its current state.

Maybe none? Maybe the above is the sum of the investigation's parts. That the compelling evidence was the combination of all those elements, not one specific element? That he hoped that any 'gaps' that existed would be filled in by what the appeals generated, that all the pieces would come together and slot into place? But they didn't.

That would certainly leave it in its current state.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Actually yes, in theory, when you place all those elements side by side (particularly as we're not privy to the details of the witness statements or the contents of Das Buch), they combined could certainly constitute compelling evidence. And could equally I suppose give substance (from HCW's perspective anyway) to the 'If you knew what I know, you too would come to the same conclusion' claim.



He certainly doesn't have any imagery, still or otherwise, featuring and/or connecting MM to CB. We know this, he's said as much. But he's always been careful to say exactly that, no imagery of them together, allowing for speculation that he might have imagery of MM post-disappearance on her own. Personally, I don't believe he has since if he had - an image of MM found on CB's hardware, taken after she disappeared! - that surely would be enough for any judge to give the go ahead for a trial.



Maybe none? Maybe the above is the sum of the investigation's parts. That the compelling evidence was the combination of all those elements, not one specific element? That he hoped that any 'gaps' that existed would be filled in by what the appeals generated?

That would certainly leave it in its current state.

BIB - charged with what?

 

[Anxala]

IMO, it all rests with remains, the recent searches of the reservoir area testify to this, we know the alleged crime scene was compromised at 5a, a simple defence is then provided where is the evidence of MM being abducted, HCW needs remains or solid evidence that CB murdered MM, he obviously hasnt.

Yes, at this stage, I tend to agree that that must have been the outcome he was hoping for. That he felt confident the appeals would put the meat on the bones (apologies for the unfortunate turn of phase in the context of a dead child) of his claims.

 

[Anxala]

BIB - charged with what?

MM disappeared off the face of the earth on 3rd May 2007. Never to be seen again. An image of MM post-disappearance would be huge. If it came from identifiable hardware belonging to CB, the prime suspect, the man at the alleged epicentre of her disappearance/murder, combined with all the circumstantial evidence that HCW claims to have, then of course it would impact how a judge would view the evidence package presented.

I'm surprised I even have to say this. Really?

Not that I think such imagery exists but at least I can see how such a scenario would have smoking gun value for HCW as far as charging CB would go.

 

[Consider Dudley]

MM disappeared off the face of the earth on 3rd May 2007. Never to be seen again. An image of MM post-disappearance would be huge. If it came from identifiable hardware belonging to CB, the prime suspect, the man at the alleged epicentre of her disappearance/murder, combined with all the circumstantial evidence that HCW claims to have, then of course it would impact how a judge would view the evidence package presented.

I'm surprised I even have to say this. Really?

Not that I think such imagery exists but at least I can see how such a scenario would have smoking gun value for HCW as far as charging CB would go.

You may be right if HCW really does have a wealth of circumstantial evidence but I thought you didn’t believe that? A photo of Madeleine on CB’s hard drive even taken post disappearance is not sufficient evidence to make a conviction for abduction and/or murder stick even with other circumstantial evidence IMO.

 

[Mex]

MM disappeared off the face of the earth on 3rd May 2007. Never to be seen again. An image of MM post-disappearance would be huge. If it came from identifiable hardware belonging to CB, the prime suspect, the man at the alleged epicentre of her disappearance/murder, combined with all the circumstantial evidence that HCW claims to have, then of course it would impact how a judge would view the evidence package presented.

I'm surprised I even have to say this. Really?

Not that I think such imagery exists but at least I can see how such a scenario would have smoking gun value for HCW as far as charging CB would go.

An image of a live MM which could be positively identified as her after her disappearance is possibly one of the most distressing and heart-breaking portrayals possible to envisage.

Portuguese investigators were not looking for a live child.

Nor were they looking for a paedophile.

The upshot to that lack of diligence is that CB a man who was on police radar at the time evaded detection.
The only immediate traceable evidence of his existence was ignored in 2007 and did not attract attention until phone records were routinely checked by Scotland Yard in 2013.

I don't know what evidence there is. But I do know that there was a change in German attitudes when more was discovered and added to it to it in 2022.

If there is an impatience for indictments in MM's case there was a pandemic as well as charges being prepared in respect of other crimes CB was also suspected of to be considered.
But when the time is right I think there can be little doubt that MM's case files will be submitted to the process.
My opinion

Snip
Fresh evidence has been found against the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a German prosecutor has revealed.

Snip
HCW, who has been investigating CB since 2020 over the MM case and other alleged offences, was asked in the TV interview whether it was true that German investigators had found something belonging to MM in a caravan used by CB. “You can’t deny it, can you?” the CMTV interviewer asked.

HCW replied: “I don’t want to deny it.”

He added: “We are sure that he is the murderer of MM. We are sure that he killed Madeleine McCann. The investigation is still going on and I think we found some new facts, some new evidence – not forensic evidence, but evidence.”

Madeleine McCann: ‘new evidence’ linked to suspect found, prosecutor says

German prosecutor says investigators are sure Christian Brückner killed three-year-old and have ‘new facts’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mex]

You may be right if HCW really does have a wealth of circumstantial evidence but I thought you didn’t believe that? A photo of Madeleine on CB’s hard drive even taken post disappearance is not sufficient evidence to make a conviction for abduction and/or murder stick even with other circumstantial evidence IMO.

Succinctly summed up.

There are boxes of evidence concerning MM's case. Nothing of which has caused CB to be removed as a suspect in her case.

The extraordinary thing is that all these years after the event fresh evidence is still being sought and found.

Is it enough to indict? That remains to be seen

 

[Davieson]

Succinctly summed up.

There are boxes of evidence concerning MM's case. Nothing of which has caused CB to be removed as a suspect in her case.

The extraordinary thing is that all these years after the event fresh evidence is still being sought and found.

Is it enough to indict? That remains to be seen

Evidence is still being sought. Not sure that anything relevant has actually been found since 2020.

 

[Mex]

Evidence is still being sought. Not sure that anything relevant has actually been found since 2020.

They are certainly spending a lot of time, effort and money on current evidence gathering on behalf of MM and the crimes committed against her.

It is impossible for anyone to speculate about the evidence until there is an inkling about what it is or even for investigators to evaluate it until it is all in, assessed and the case ready for progression to the next stage.

In the interim the joint investigation into MM's case seems to have cemented international police co-operation like none other.
Snip
“Sincere thanks go out to all police officers involved in the search,” the Braunschweig prosecutor continued. “The cooperation between the Portuguese police, the police officers from Great Britain and the Federal Criminal Police Office was excellent and very constructive.”

Police examining a 'number of items' recovered during new search for Madeleine McCann

"[An] area along the reservoir was completely searched for possible evidence," authorities said. "A number of items were seized as part of the operation."

lawandcrime.com

 

[Consider Dudley]

Succinctly summed up.

There are boxes of evidence concerning MM's case. Nothing of which has caused CB to be removed as a suspect in her case.

The extraordinary thing is that all these years after the event fresh evidence is still being sought and found.

Is it enough to indict? That remains to be seen

I really don’t believe we’re just one photo of Madeleine taken post disappearance on CB’s hard drive away from charges being brought. I’m certain the burden of proof would have to be much stronger to ensure a successful conviction and I’m surprised that anyone sceptical of CB’s involvement would suggest that a photo of this nature would be sufficient to convince them that the evidence would then be strong enough to go to trial for abduction and/or murder.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I really don’t believe we’re just one photo of Madeleine taken post disappearance on CB’s hard drive away from charges being brought. I’m certain the burden of proof would have to be much stronger to ensure a successful conviction and I’m surprised that anyone sceptical of CB’s involvement would suggest that a photo of this nature would be sufficient to convince them that the evidence would then be strong enough to go to trial for abduction and/or murder.

Circumstantial evidence plus one hair obtained a conviction in the DM case.

How could a convicted paedophile who has admitted to witnesses that he was responsible for crimes against MM explain that he has the only known photograph of MM, the world’s most famous missing person, after 10pm, 3 May, 2007.

IMO, physical evidence changes everything about the case and we know HCW doesn’t have any.

 

[Mex]

I really don’t believe we’re just one photo of Madeleine taken post disappearance on CB’s hard drive away from charges being brought. I’m certain the burden of proof would have to be much stronger to ensure a successful conviction and I’m surprised that anyone sceptical of CB’s involvement would suggest that a photo of this nature would be sufficient to convince them that the evidence would then be strong enough to go to trial for abduction and/or murder.

I agree.

It just does not work like that.

A photograph is probably mainly intelligence. If taken while part of a burglary nothing will be learned from the background.
Preferably there would be forensic evidence physically linking the abused with the abuser.
As was the case with CB's hair being found in the bed of the woman he was convicted of raping.