Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

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  • #1,021
I can't believe anyone would think otherwise. We all know CB is a nasty piece of work but the 'tough sh*it' narrative in the potential absence of any conclusion in the MM case is disturbing. The truth about what happened to MM is the only thing that matters for anyone who genuinely cares about this case. The idea that it's all left hanging with a big red arrow still pointing at CB's head is not an outcome that anyone who cares about justice being served would be remotely happy with.

The only acceptable outcome here would be either a charge and a trial or for HCW & Co to admit that the evidence they have falls short of that required to charge CB and that their case against him is now closed. One or the other.

Personally, I'd much prefer the former - a charge and a trial - so the prosecution is held to account for its claims, we finally get to hear the evidence against CB and CB's defence gets its day in court. That's the only way that an informed conclusion can be reached as to the validity of and justification for the circus HCW was happy to be ringmaster of for the past three and counting years.

Step up, one way or the other.
Very succinctly put and probably very few would disagree with the points that are of paramount importance which are
  • what happened to MM
  • and who is responsible for the crimes
Her parents have been looking for answers since 2007 and surely do deserve them. Bitter experience has perhaps brought home to them the bitter reality that 'festina lente' or the more hurry the less speed has the best chance of success.
They await with dignity and patience the result of the police investigation which will hopefully give them answers however painful that may be. They know that theirs and MM's best interests are served by the police investigations
Snip
"It is true though that uncertainty creates weakness; knowledge and certainty give strength, and for this reason our need for answers, for the truth, is essential.
"We are grateful for the ongoing work and commitment of the UK, Portuguese and German authorities as it is this combined police effort which will yield results and bring us those answers.

The truth is though that even if CB were to be charged with MM’s murder tomorrow it will not make one whit of difference to the timescale regarding CB. Everything will be run according to the inexorable process set in place last year and which is actually not off the ground as yet. That process will not be accelerated by adding to it. Indeed the likelihood is it will be slowed down even more.

Preferences don’t come into it. Everything now is subject to the process. And it is the process which will determine the course of events. There is no chance it will be allowed to run its course as was the 2019 aggravated rape featuring CB.
My opinion
 
  • #1,022
HCW may not be concerned about the 'minutae' of what happened on the evening of the 3rd May 2007 but CB's defence team will be. They'll be all over it, imo.

That's why a charge and a trial is so important.
German court procedures do not allow legal teams to be all over anything. Judges run the proceedings. Grandstanding by lawyers whether prosecution or defence just is not part of the court process.
 
  • #1,023
German court procedures do not allow legal teams to be all over anything. Judges run the proceedings. Grandstanding by lawyers whether prosecution or defence just is not part of the court process.
Judges run the proceedings in UK courts as well.

Can you explain the role of a defence lawyer in the German system ?
 
  • #1,024
HCW may not be concerned about the 'minutae' of what happened on the evening of the 3rd May 2007 but CB's defence team will be. They'll be all over it, imo.

That's why a charge and a trial is so important.
But what is a strange state of affairs imo is that the BKA claim MM is dead, yet the parents are in the dark, an indeed the findmadeleine.com still shows that there is no evidence MM has come to no harm, where is there another case where a LE makes claim of death yet can't or won't confirm such to the parents, come to that even SY have not confirmed they have seen evidence of such.Claiming to reveal such evidence could harm an investigation is absolute bull.

Why do we continue?
  • There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed.
  • Madeleine is still missing and someone needs to be looking for her.
  • She is young and vulnerable and needs our help.
  • We love her dearly and miss her beyond words.
 
  • #1,025
Judges run the proceedings in UK courts as well.

Can you explain the role of a defence lawyer in the German system ?
Quite a bit it seems, FF confirmed to Bild that the courts have asked, yes asked the defence for appointments.

Brückner's defense attorney Dr. Friedrich Fülscher (39) confirmed to BILD that the court had asked the defense for appointments. Fülscher: “However, due to other, priority proceedings in court and the defense, I do not expect the trial to begin before March. Proceedings in which pre-trial detention is carried out must be processed before proceedings in which the detention takes place on a basis other than a pretrial detention order.”
 
  • #1,026
Presuma
Quite a bit it seems, FF confirmed to Bild that the courts have asked, yes asked the defence for appointments.

Brückner's defense attorney Dr. Friedrich Fülscher (39) confirmed to BILD that the court had asked the defense for appointments. Fülscher: “However, due to other, priority proceedings in court and the defense, I do not expect the trial to begin before March. Proceedings in which pre-trial detention is carried out must be processed before proceedings in which the detention takes place on a basis other than a pretrial detention order.”
Presumably this is the trial pertaining to child abuse and rape. Not anything to do with MM.
 
  • #1,027
Judges run the proceedings in UK courts as well.

Can you explain the role of a defence lawyer in the German system ?
whatever the system, the defence will look to find holes in the prosecutions case.

IMO, it is not a question of defence lawyers grandstanding, rather they will look at the whole history of the case to argue against the current allegations. JS and FF probably have enough information to cast doubt on any circumstantial evidence put forward by the prosecutors - we can be certain they will rely on this information.

HCW’s case has to rely on a silver bullet, something practically irrefutable. If it doesn’t, the no body, no forensic case will not get to trial… IMO.
 
  • #1,028
whatever the system, the defence will look to find holes in the prosecutions case.

IMO, it is not a question of defence lawyers grandstanding, rather they will look at the whole history of the case to argue against the current allegations. JS and FF probably have enough information to cast doubt on any circumstantial evidence put forward by the prosecutors - we can be certain they will rely on this information.

HCW’s case has to rely on a silver bullet, something practically irrefutable. If it doesn’t, the no body, no forensic case will not get to trial… IMO.
Don't forget, that as far as we know, there is nothing to demonstrate any physical contact between CB and MM.
That will be an important factor in presenting a prosecution case.
 
  • #1,029
Presuma

Presumably this is the trial pertaining to child abuse and rape. Not anything to do with MM.
Agreed but it shows how the court needs the defence cooperation rather than ordering the defence that a trial date is set and that's it, so the defence has an important role, imo in the German system.
 
  • #1,030
whatever the system, the defence will look to find holes in the prosecutions case.

IMO, it is not a question of defence lawyers grandstanding, rather they will look at the whole history of the case to argue against the current allegations. JS and FF probably have enough information to cast doubt on any circumstantial evidence put forward by the prosecutors - we can be certain they will rely on this information.

HCW’s case has to rely on a silver bullet, something practically irrefutable. If it doesn’t, the no body, no forensic case will not get to trial… IMO.
IMO there is no grandstanding, CBs defence team is no doubt doing all it can in preventing their client reaching court has you point out, in this case it's CB, it matters not who it is, the defence by its own name is exactly that.
 
  • #1,031
But what is a strange state of affairs imo is that the BKA claim MM is dead, yet the parents are in the dark, an indeed the findmadeleine.com still shows that there is no evidence MM has come to no harm, where is there another case where a LE makes claim of death yet can't or won't confirm such to the parents, come to that even SY have not confirmed they have seen evidence of such.Claiming to reveal such evidence could harm an investigation is absolute bull.

Why do we continue?
  • There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed.
  • Madeleine is still missing and someone needs to be looking for her.
  • She is young and vulnerable and needs our help.
  • We love her dearly and miss her beyond words.
I do agree that the situation for MM's parents and family is utterly heartrending. They have been living with it since 2007 and until very recently they had no hope of resolution.

They have now; for the first time since MM vanished there is a real hope of finding out what happened to her.

All that is required is for the police to be allowed to do their job as they are trained to do and the prosecutors to do theirs and the evidence is that is precisely what is happening.

Very, very hard times indeed for loved ones but knowing is so much better than never knowing.

Snip
She said: “If they find a body we will be devastated but it will bring the hell of living like this to an end.
“I just want to know if she’s alive or dead. Not knowing is the worst thing - a never-ending torture. Anyone with a missing child will tell you that.
She feared her twins, who are now 15, would have to carry on the search should their parents, now aged 52, die without getting any answers.
She accepted that MM may be dead, but believed that finding out that that devastating "worst-case scenario" was true was better than never finding her at all.
MM's mum made the comments six years ago following reports that British police would be excavating sites in Praia da Luz, Portugal - the resort where the family was staying when Madeleine disappeared on May 3, 2017 - to look for a body and evidence
The mum, an ambassador for the charity Missing People, said at the time: “I have spent days thinking, ‘What would you rather? Not know, or find out something you didn’t want to hear?’
“I’ve spent hours thinking about that and, each time, I still come up thinking we need to know. Regardless now, we need to know.”

In 2014, KM said the couple had thought of moving to a new home, but ruled it out based on the heart breaking thought of Maddie one day returning home to find her family was not there.
 
  • #1,032
But what is a strange state of affairs imo is that the BKA claim MM is dead, yet the parents are in the dark, an indeed the findmadeleine.com still shows that there is no evidence MM has come to no harm, where is there another case where a LE makes claim of death yet can't or won't confirm such to the parents, come to that even SY have not confirmed they have seen evidence of such.Claiming to reveal such evidence could harm an investigation is absolute bull.

Why do we continue?
  • There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed.
  • Madeleine is still missing and someone needs to be looking for her.
  • She is young and vulnerable and needs our help.
  • We love her dearly and miss her beyond words.
I wouldn’t read too much into what is pretty much a defunct website now.
 
  • #1,033
But what is a strange state of affairs imo is that the BKA claim MM is dead, yet the parents are in the dark, an indeed the findmadeleine.com still shows that there is no evidence MM has come to no harm, where is there another case where a LE makes claim of death yet can't or won't confirm such to the parents, come to that even SY have not confirmed they have seen evidence of such.Claiming to reveal such evidence could harm an investigation is absolute bull.

Why do we continue?
  • There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed.
  • Madeleine is still missing and someone needs to be looking for her.
  • She is young and vulnerable and needs our help.
  • We love her dearly and miss her beyond words.

I wouldn't pay much attention to that site as far as it throwing any light on anything, current or otherwise. I doubt it's been updated much over the last couple of years. But, in ref to the parents being left in the dark:

Remember we had the McCanns denying receipt of any letters from the LE confirming that MM was dead? This link throws some light on what exactly the communication/s between the LE and the McCanns constituted, just for general info.

It seems that the letters sent to the McCanns were courtesy letters: the first one to officially brief them in advance that they were going to announce publicly (as they did in June 2020) that they had a prime suspect who they believed murdered MM; and the second letter, it appears, was a more personal one (because of them being the parents), but not one that elaborated in any significant way on the first.

HCW (and I actually understand this from his/the BKA's perspective) acknowledges that G&K McCann are of course her parents but he sees them also as witnesses (which they are), hence there not being any need or obligation on the LE's part to disclose anything further to them related to the evidence held.

Which I can understand, I think. Anyway, this Q&A with HCW seems reliable -

 
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  • #1,034
I wouldn't pay much attention to that site as far as it throwing any light on anything, current or otherwise. I doubt it's been updated much over the last couple of years. But, in ref to the parents being left in the dark:

Remember we had the McCanns denying receipt of any letters from the LE confirming that MM was dead? This link throws some light on what exactly the communication/s between the LE and the McCanns constituted, just for general info.

It seems that the letters sent to the McCanns were courtesy letters: the first one to officially brief them in advance that they were going to announce publicly (as they did in June 2020) that they had a prime suspect who they believed murdered MM; and the second letter, it appears, was a more personal one (because of them being the parents), but not one that elaborated in any significant way on the first.

HCW (and I actually understand this from his/the BKA's perspective) acknowledges that G&K McCann are of course her parents but he sees them also as witnesses (which they are), hence there not being any need or obligation on the LE's part to disclose anything further to them related to the evidence held.

Which I can understand, I think. Anyway, this Q&A with HCW seems reliable -

Very interesting, thank you.
 
  • #1,035
Very interesting, thank you.
At the time I thought it very interesting too.

But that was in 2020 and a lot of investigative time has passed since then. And here we are in 2023 soon to be 2024 before when it is not expected that CB will face charges for crimes against MM.

Much of which delay is due to defence handling of other cases for which CB has been charged but not yet tried.

Hence the knock on effect on a case we were told in 2020 was going nowhere.

Snip
Charges against MM suspect CB are unlikely, his lawyer claimed yesterday.

Trial Date for Brueckner Set

EXCLUSIVE: Trial date for MM suspect is finally set: CB faces lengthy jail term for violent sexual attacks... Olive Press
 
  • #1,036
That would suggest verdicts perhaps early March
 
  • #1,037
That would suggest verdicts perhaps early March
Under normal circumstances I would agree with that. Proof being that once the German system of justice got into gear DM's case was done and dusted in jig time.

I do not have the exact timetable. Because it was over and done with before anyone knew that CB, the sexual predator in Praia da Luz was also a police suspect in the disappearance of MM from a nearby apartment in Praia da Luz.

Therefore expect the timewasting to be phenomenal between the conclusion of unrelated cases which are now seen as relevant by some and the progress of the prosecution of MM's case.

The cases are all unrelated one from the others. The only link between them is the identity of the alleged perpetrator in one proven and six outrages still to be brought to trial.

A trial date for the prosecution of CB for crimes against MM being set early in March as you suggest would be great. Especially for MM's parents and family. But I'll believe it when I see it; there is a lot of legal work to be carried out prior to that and after.

TBH - I'm not holding my breath for anytime between now and 2025/26

My opinion
 
  • #1,038
Under normal circumstances I would agree with that. Proof being that once the German system of justice got into gear DM's case was done and dusted in jig time.

I do not have the exact timetable. Because it was over and done with before anyone knew that CB, the sexual predator in Praia da Luz was also a police suspect in the disappearance of MM from a nearby apartment in Praia da Luz.

Therefore expect the timewasting to be phenomenal between the conclusion of unrelated cases which are now seen as relevant by some and the progress of the prosecution of MM's case.

The cases are all unrelated one from the others. The only link between them is the identity of the alleged perpetrator in one proven and six outrages still to be brought to trial.

A trial date for the prosecution of CB for crimes against MM being set early in March as you suggest would be great. Especially for MM's parents and family. But I'll believe it when I see it; there is a lot of legal work to be carried out prior to that and after.

TBH - I'm not holding my breath for anytime between now and 2025/26

My opinion
Can't imagine how you came to that conclusion from my quoted post. Wishful thinking perhaps.
I was ,of course, referring to verdicts from the announced trials, with no mention of MM
 
  • #1,039
Can't imagine how you came to that conclusion from my quoted post. Wishful thinking perhaps.
I was ,of course, referring to verdicts from the announced trials, with no mention of MM
Then we are obviously speaking at cross purposes.

I thought your reference was to the conclusion of the legal impediment presently impeding progress to the next stage in MM's case which is obviously charging CB with crimes against MM and taking him to court.

MM and the case against CB is after all the subject of this thread.
 
  • #1,040
Agreed but it shows how the court needs the defence cooperation rather than ordering the defence that a trial date is set and that's it, so the defence has an important role, imo in the German system.

This kind of scheduling is normal around the world.

All the parties, including the judge(s), have trials already booked in. So you need to find a slot which works for everyone, and gives adequate time for trial preparation.
 
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