Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #40

[Zuleika]

That’s as maybe, it still doesn’t excuse such a limited physical search imo.

Limited? You seem to be getting obsessed with this inaccurate accusation .

 

[RichardKimble]

That doesn't say anything about when it was registered.

It says the last known registration was the day after the offence in Augsburg.

The last known registration after the day of the offence was a city of Augsburg registration

 

[Davieson]

It says the last known registration was the day after the offence in Augsburg.

The last known registration after the day of the offence was a city of Augsburg registration

The day after the offence is not the same as after the day of the offence.

 

[RichardKimble]

The day after the offence is not the same as after the day of the offence.

Quite agree but that's how it's worded.Lost in translation ?

 

[Davieson]

Quite agree but that's how it's worded.Lost in translation ?

Maybe, maybe not. Or misunderstood.

 

[RichardKimble]

Maybe, maybe not. Or misunderstood.

It would be good to get the original German release, the one on page 1 is already translated.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

There’s a massive difference between on week and seven months. Given that He Who Must Not Be Mentioned believed that the McCanns were involved in her disappearance from Day One then the search parameters would surely have been fairly clearly limited to a small area which is no doubt where thr week long search was focused but why then give up after one paltry week? How many rubbish tips did they search in that week?

I think it comes down to best use of police time. Randomly searching wasteland, of which there is a lot in the Algarve, is expensive and reliant on luck. I’m sure there are better ways to solve the crime.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I think it comes down to best use of police time. Randomly searching wasteland, of which there is a lot in the Algarve, is expensive and reliant on luck. I’m sure there are better ways to solve the crime.

Have you any idea what the terrain was like in the environs of April Jones’ disappearance which was assiduously searched for months by police after her disappearance? The best way to solve a crime involving a missing person is to find them or their remains and the best opportunity to do is is as close to the date of disappearance as is possible.

 

[Mex]

I have no idea what processes are involved in purifying reservoir water, but the quicker anything thrown in was removed, the more chance there was of finding and analysing it.

​

Divers search for MM in Arade dam
By: CECÍLIA PIRES
13th March 2008
[email protected]

• Metodo 3 private detectives employed by MM's parents to find her will arrange forensic analysis of anything found in a Spanish lab with the PJ being informed of the results
• “the family is not sponsoring the diving because they believe MM is alive, but we are receiving support from Metodo 3, which means they are aware of everything”.
• the search has been commissioned by MAC and sponsored by SPEC a Portimao-based company
• there are five Lagos based divers with two Portimao based Bombeiros who are working in their own time.
  Visibility in the water is very poor and the divers are using touch and feel to search as the water is so murky
• if MM's remains are found in the Arade dam, MAC will reveal everything about the tip-off that led to the search.

"This operation follows a first phase of searches, held in late January and February, when divers found an entrance covered by a metal grate and could not search inside the water tubes leading to the tower."

Divers search for Madeleine in Arade dam

By: CECÍLIA PIRES [email protected] ANYTHING FOUND as a result of the searches being carried out by divers at the Arade dam near Silves will be given to Método 3, the Spanish private investigating company hired by the McCann family to help find Madeleine. The divers’ search of the waters...

www.portugalresident.com

 

[Zuleika]

Have you any idea what the terrain was like in the environs of April Jones’ disappearance which was assiduously searched for months by police after her disappearance? The best way to solve a crime involving a missing person is to find them or their remains and the best opportunity to do is is as close to the date of disappearance as is possible.

MM was ,insofar as when the PJ arrived, a search for a child missing from her bed Quite different to the AJ case .
At that point there was no evidence that a crime had been committed .

 

[Consider Dudley]

MM was ,insofar as when the PJ arrived, a search for a child missing from her bed Quite different to the AJ case .
At that point there was no evidence that a crime had been committed .

If a child has woken and wandered from its bed it will almost certainly be found within a few hours, usually alive or the victim of some unfortunate mishap. When the child does not show up within a short period of time it is usually safe to assume a crime of some sort has been committed. In fact the police should keep a completely open mind as to what has caused the child to disappear. In any case your point is irrelevant to the one I made as to the disparity in search resources given to Madeleine versus April Jones. Whatever had caused her to vanish Portuguese police should IMO have continued the physical search for Madeleine far beyond one single week just as their Welsh counterparts did for April. Obviously you strenuously disagree and there’s nothing more that either of us need to say to each other on the subject.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Have you any idea what the terrain was like in the environs of April Jones’ disappearance which was assiduously searched for months by police after her disappearance? The best way to solve a crime involving a missing person is to find them or their remains and the best opportunity to do is is as close to the date of disappearance as is possible.

We had a holiday home in Wales as a child so I know the country well.

I also lived in Yallingup, Western Australia in my twenties, not far from the area where CS <modsnip: full name redacted> was abducted. In terms of desolate unpopulated terrain, this would be some of the harshest in the world. In this instance, a couple of years ago, police carried out air land and sea searches for about a week. Ultimately, she was found safe and well.

This tells me that the length of physical searches is dependant on clues from the investigation. There are farmers in Western Australia with properties larger than Wales so physical searches could last for years, cost millions and not yield any results - I am certain the people of Western Australia wouldn’t expect this of their police force. I don’t know what clues there were in April Jones’s case but I cannot believe the police were randomly searching, day-in day-out, for seven months as it seems to be a terrible tactic and in this case did not result in her being found.

In MM’s case, was there any lead to suggest she or her remains could be found in a particular area? I doubt it as there was no evidence she had been abducted. I’m certain the PJ followed up on sightings and other lines of enquiry.

In short, where to deploy resources is a tactical decision, made by people running the case based on the information they have in the unique circumstance of each crime. A one week search didn’t find MM or CS <modsnip: full name redacted> and a seven month search didn’t find April Jones. Based on this, it’s hard to be critical of any police forces in question.

 

[Consider Dudley]

We had a holiday home in Wales as a child so I know the country well.

I also lived in Yallingup, Western Australia in my twenties, not far from the area where CS <modsnip: full name redacted> was abducted. In terms of desolate unpopulated terrain, this would be some of the harshest in the world. In this instance, a couple of years ago, police carried out air land and sea searches for about a week. Ultimately, she was found safe and well.

This tells me that the length of physical searches is dependant on clues from the investigation. There are farmers in Western Australia with properties larger than Wales so physical searches could last for years, cost millions and not yield any results - I am certain the people of Western Australia wouldn’t expect this of their police force. I don’t know what clues there were in April Jones’s case but I cannot believe the police were randomly searching, day-in day-out, for seven months as it seems to be a terrible tactic and in this case did not result in her being found.

In MM’s case, was there any lead to suggest she or her remains could be found in a particular area? I doubt it as there was no evidence she had been abducted. I’m certain the PJ followed up on sightings and other lines of enquiry.

In short, where to deploy resources is a tactical decision, made by people running the case based on the information they have in the unique circumstance of each crime. A one week search didn’t find MM or Cleo Smith and a seven month search didn’t find April Jones. Based on this, it’s hard to be critical of any police forces in question.

The police did not give up on CS <modsnip: full name redacted> until she was found. The police knew that it was very likely April Jones had been murdered by Mark Bridger (he confessed to accidentally running her over) and were desperate to find her body in order to prove it beyond reasonable doubt despite having no clue as to where he might have disposed of her body as he refused to tell them. In the end tiny fragments of bone in his fireplace were enough to convict him. In both cases the police solved the crimes by not giving up on the child and by expending every resource in achieving justice for them. I believe that three police forces including (belatedly) the PJ are now pursuing exactly that aim and outcome for Madeleine McCann thoughly sadly the passing of time has made the likelihood of ever finding her or her body vanishingly small. I am not alone in criticising the PJ’s early efforts, many LE officials and experts think their response was lacking, inadequate, shoddy. Of course you are entitled to disagree but frankly I’ve no interest in pursuing this line of discussion with you any further so this is my last word on the matter.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The police did not give up on CS <modsnip: full name redacted> until she was found. The police knew that it was very likely April Jones had been murdered by Mark Bridger (he confessed to accidentally running her over) and were desperate to find her body in order to prove it beyond reasonable doubt despite having no clue as to where he might have disposed of her body as he refused to tell them. In the end tiny fragments of bone in his fireplace were enough to convict him. In both cases the police solved the crimes by not giving up on the child and by expending every resource in achieving justice for them. I believe that three police forces including (belatedly) the PJ are now pursuing exactly that aim and outcome for Madeleine McCann thoughly sadly the passing of time has made the likelihood of ever finding her or her body vanishingly small. I am not alone in criticising the PJ’s early efforts, many LE officials and experts think their response was lacking, inadequate, shoddy. Of course you are entitled to disagree but frankly I’ve no interest in pursuing this line of discussion with you any further so this is my last word on the matter.

The PJ stopped investigating MM when they ran out of lines of enquiry. The head of the investigation after GA had asked for further questioning of the Tapas group and her parents in Portugal and a reconstruction of the nights events. This request was denied and without any other live leads, the investigation was shelved.

Similarly, the William Tyrell case was shelved in Australia when the leads disappeared.

With CS <modsnip: full name redacted> the police were fortunate to find her within a few months due to a tip-off, not exhaustive searching of the Australian outback.

April Jones’s abductor was identified within 24 hours of her disappearance because he was stupid enough to use a very unusual LH drive Land Rover to abduct her. The search was to pin the crime on an almost certainly guilty suspect. The search itself delivered no results.

Perhaps the PJ’s investigation wasn’t as good as April Jones’s. Nevertheless, the case presented them with challenges never before seen in any criminal case. This was due to the media engagement strategy initiated by her parents from the onset of the case. Who is to say how many man hours were lost managing the media scrum and dealing with the rest of the PR and legal representatives… not to mention overseas diplomats. This certainly didn’t help the investigation and there may have been a different result without this pressure and interference - it couldn’t have been easy.

All my opinion but it’s how I see things. I’m glad we don’t have to discuss it further.

 

[frank-cole]

If a child has woken and wandered from its bed it will almost certainly be found within a few hours, usually alive or the victim of some unfortunate mishap. When the child does not show up within a short period of time it is usually safe to assume a crime of some sort has been committed. In fact the police should keep a completely open mind as to what has caused the child to disappear. In any case your point is irrelevant to the one I made as to the disparity in search resources given to Madeleine versus April Jones. Whatever had caused her to vanish Portuguese police should IMO have continued the physical search for Madeleine far beyond one single week just as their Welsh counterparts did for April. Obviously you strenuously disagree and there’s nothing more that either of us need to say to each other on the subject.

Sometimes it reads like people don’t want MM to be found. It’s not surprising but unfortunate nonetheless. CB said “if the traces are destroyed afterwards” (when referring to abducting assaulting & killing a little girl. The man who brags about that, was stood outside the little girl went missing from. Unsettlingly but doesn’t require much brain power to connect those dots.
Thankfully child abduction & murder is very rare, especially stranger abduction. The circumstances of the abduction are bound to be different in almost every case. The April Jones case also (rightly) cost many millions of pounds but the case isn’t really comparable to MM’s just as it isn’t really comparable to Cleo Smith’s.

In hindsight (very easy to apply hindsight & make theories years after a crime) if the PJ had managed the scene better & made the scene really big they may have picked up evidence of CB outside (well before the BKA took full control). CB was a smoker, they could have collected & tested cigarette butts.

 

[frank-cole]

Anything he has done regarding re-registering around 3/05/2007 should be investigated and it is of interest. And it seems BKA get anything related on the 4th. What is unusual is having a suspect like CB and think it's usual to not pay attention to this.

Re-registering the car has a big significance, if it didn’t 2 LEA’s wouldn’t be saying it did.

<modsnip: Off topic. Thread is to discuss the case itself, not other members>

 

[mrjitty]

If anyone is interested in search in missing body cases, I'd highly recommend the book No Stone Unturned about Necrosearch in the US

In general, intensive searches involve significant resource investment by agencies and these are cost/benefit questions because they have competing priorities.

So once the obvious has been eliminated, you will need specific intel for further investment.

 

[RichardKimble]

That doesn't say anything about when it was registered.

Found a article from the Telegraph saying he moved back to Germany and lived in Ausburg in 2008 maybe this was the reason to register the car there.

How the German Madeleine McCann suspect was discovered during a 13-year investigation

Some 37 Scotland Yard detectives, armed with a £12 million budget, finally have a breakthrough in the case

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

It is surely proper then to give the investigating authorities the benefit of the doubt since they know what the evidence is and rightly, we do not.

The police are building a case; what are we doing apart from scrutinising and commenting on information we don't have to begin with in relation to MM.

When CB's name was released to the internet it was accompanied with the soubriquet of patsy or scapegoat. That has stuck in some peoples' interpretation of what the police investigation consists of and is a false premise.

It is a false premise also that heinous crimes can't be committed unless victim and perpetrator have been formally introduced to each other. Quite often the reverse is true which makes them so difficult to solve, the perpetrator only being apprehended as the result of being caught in the act committing further crime.

We have indications but we don't have the evidence. It is for the investigators to make the link between the current victim and the depraved. For example MM didn't leave her bed and hike the thirty odd miles to the Arade; CB or any other abuser with transport might have.
My opinion

I disagree. I think everything should be treated with scepticism until its truth has been established.

 

[RichardKimble]

It started in the sun, so make of it what you will.


This effort is especially urgent because officers are racing against the clock to find a link between the convicted sex offender and Maddie's disappearance.
A source familiar with the case told the Sun: "German detectives remain convinced Christian B was involved in Maddie’s disappearance.

Madeleine McCann cops 'desperate to track down prime suspect's ex-lovers'

German cops looking to piece together the history of the main suspect in the Madeleine McCann investigation, convicted paedophile Christian B.

www.express.co.uk

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