Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #8

[SouthAussie]

Salient stuff only - not everything - from the first part of the 60 Minutes special ..... (second part coming up, if I have time)


Presenter: The evil that befell Maddie has never had a name until now.

German Prosecutor (GP): We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead

Expert: I see a lot of clues and a lot of evidence that he is a psychopath who has an escalating fantasy of violence that maybe ended in abducting and killing Madeleine McCann

Brueckner: In an internet chatroom “ I will document exactly how they will be tortured”

Expert = Mark Hoffman is a German crime and intelligence agent who works with German police and has studied Christian Brueckner’s sordid and criminal past.

GP: The prosecutor’s office is investigating a 43 year old German national on the suspicion of murder. We are assuming that the girl is dead.

Expert: Christian B he is the serial offender in many past cases. He was criminal and he was in prison, and he did it again and again and again, 17 or 18 times. This absolutely matches the facts of the evidence.
Number One – he was there. With most serial offenders it is all about power and control, and they like to do it in environments which are their comfort zone. So they are doing what they do near to the places where they live.
Re the rape of the 72 year old woman “This is not just rape, this is one of the most brutal rapes possible.

From a police document … The accused forced the naked, bound and gagged woman to stand up – and he beat her repeatedly on her chest, lower abdomen, arms and buttocks with a metal object he had brought with him.

Presenter: Mark Hoffman says the little girl was a target for Brueckner as much as his elderly victim

Expert: For some layman this can be confusing. How can this be the same offender? I mean raping an elderly woman, and raping or abusing or killing children. Well, it is really important to understand, is that many child offenders are not pedophiles, so for them it is not about the young age itself, it’s about weakness, about vulnerability, and feeling a sense of power. So they like to abduct easy victims. And if you ask me, elderly women and children, this is not a contradiction. It is one of the biggest similarities.

Expert: It’s about violence, it’s about power, it’s about dominance, it’s about playing God. This is not just about sex or rape, this is about torture.

Simon Foy (Scotland Yard’s previous head of homicide): My experience of working with the German police is that they are very careful. What they say publicly, they would have recognised the significance of it, they would have recognised the international sensitivity of it, and they would probably have recognised the public interest in it. It’s the fact that they made that statement (that Madeleine is dead) is in itself significant.

GP: We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead. That our suspect killed her. But I am not allowed and am not able at the moment, to tell you all the details of our evidence. We don’t have the body, and no part of the body. But we have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine McCann. It was sometime in the last two years that we realised that she’s dead. We know that the phone number which was used by our suspect on the 3rd of May 2007 was connecting in the (mess ???) belongs to the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. (My note for myself 23:40 in the video)

Presenter: So what you are saying is you can place Christian Brueckner at the scene.

GP: Yes, we think so.

Expert: If he abducted Maddie McCann it is also likely that he just not abducted but killed her. And killing is likely for different reasons. Number One it’s likely because it is part of the fantasy, but Number Two it could also have practical reasons not to be arrested for this crime because she was old enough to talk.

Presenter: So shortly after Maddie was abducted, Brueckner slipped out of Portugal to Germany. A monster no-one knew was on the run.

Expert: If I look at his life and his criminal record, he is quite clear about his fantasy of abducting, torturing and <modsnip> (bleeped out) children to name it, and this could be a serial killer in the making and it is absolutely a red flag, yes.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I’d advise some caution re. 60 Minutes Australia. It’s more tabloid-leaning than high quality investigative journalism.

Their show repeated errors and assumptions we’ve seen misreported in other media eg. saying CB discussed abusing a child in an online chat room — it was actually a Skype conversation they found on his laptop.

BBM. haven't heard that before. i just googled, 'Skype conversation found on Christian B laptop' and got nothing. can you help with the link for where you heard this?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Skype: the guardian 5 June 2020. Refers to the sept 2013 Skype conversation about catching something small and using it for days.

 

[photographer4]

I can't link from the now closed thread but are we thinking the pic of the westfalia is one taken by CB himself? B/c if so, then it can't be him in the reflection in the window, strictly based on the fact that the photo of the van was taken from BEHIND. There is no way CB could both take the photo AND appear in the driver's side window if he took the photo... UNLESS... he perhaps set up a tripod and used a remote to take the photo of the van....

Wait... could that photo of the van have come from traffic cam at the place where it ws taken? Or security at the place where it was taken...?

 

[photographer4]

After watching again face reflected in windows under great amplification, I think he's wearing sunglasses (a reflex above his head seemed to be sunglasses there when first saw it). Also, it seems he has a beard. It would be interesting to a CB's profile pic to see if nose can match. It's a very characteristic nose.

Might be due to distortion caused by lens length / quality of lens... and b/c its a reflection in a window.

 

[photographer4]

His third???

First = bio name pre-adoption
Second = adoptive name given by adoptive parents
Third = if he ends up needing to change identity as a result of the media attain to this case

 

[BellMat]

BBM. haven't heard that before. i just googled, 'Skype conversation found on Christian B laptop' and got nothing. can you help with the link for where you heard this?

You can see it in this TV report from Der Spiegel. They show the actual Skype transcript from 2013 (wahsinnderholger is CB and panikspatz66 is CB’s friend). This was found when they got his computer in 2016 — he was a person of interest in IG’s disappearance.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Skype: the guardian 5 June 2020. Refers to the sept 2013 Skype conversation about catching something small and using it for days.

many thanks.

 

[photographer4]

This is the second time I've heard HCW refuse to confirm or deny if they have a video or pictures of MM.

Plus he made an additional cryptic comment, obviously in response to a similar question, along the lines of it being possible CB made a video but they had no proof he did. Many took this as HCW stating they did not have anything but I'm not convinced that's what he meant. If it was, why not just say that in this 60 minutes interview?

They've admitted they don't have any forensic evidence. They've admitted they cannot place CB in the area without somoene confirming that phone was in his hands. Why give away this information, but not outright say they don't have a video/pictures if they don't?

I'm pretty sure they do have something along these lines. IMO.

It seems like he isn't confirming or denying b/c he's hoping to make someone sweat - shake the tree and see what falls out kinda thing! If he says straight up he hasn't got photos or video, some folks may worry less. Maybe they're watching to see who might come forward looking to make an immunity deal, or who turns up dead? Who knows.... I feel though they wouldn't say they knew it was CB unless they knew for very sure it was CB... and they were just trying to find something to use to take it to court.

 

[shonyakay]

Praia da Luz[/I]. (My note for myself 23:40 in the video)

Thanks for typing all of that out for those of us who can't watch it.

"It was sometime in the last two years that we realised that she’s dead."
- So sometime between 2018 ish until 2020?

Also about (mess???) I think it may be mass.

 

[photographer4]

This is the most important information here so far. CB in a queue to embark in a ferry to Melilla, a gateway to Morocco. Never in his timeline was it mentioned any connection to Morocco. So if you want to find MM and believe CB is the culprit, after watching this picture you must consider Morocco seriously.

CB's vehicle in a queue yes. But unless they can put CB in that car at that time, this might not be super significant (or maybe it is, if he lent his car to someone....). Ugh. Who knows. Hopefully police can use the info somehow!

 

[photographer4]

Regarding the Queensland article this caught my eye...

Between 9pm and 10pm, when Maddie was abducted, investigators also claimed to have discovered a mobile phone which was allegedly used by Brueckner in the immediate area of her hotel room - implying he was at the scene.

Me: Is this phone usage in addition to the call he received at 7:32 p.m. that lasted until 8:02 p.m. or were the writers of the article just off on the time?

What caught my eye was the part where they said about "audio" of the pedophile chat room - does this mean this was a live chat vs a text chat? If so, how? Was it recorded, an undercover in the chatroom? Or someone called and gave tip??

 

[photographer4]

I also don't know what to think about the McCanns lawyer in Portugal. It says he is pressing for the Germans to reveal what they know-Again would that endanger the case if this was made public?

But didn't the McCann's say when they said they didn't get a letter from the German LE that they had no lawyer on their payroll?? This was recently in the news... a statement from them... (bolded statement about proof was included when I copied and pasted from the website, but the bold and italics regarding the lawyer are done by me to direct your attention).

Updates: | findmadeleine.com

Kate & Gerry McCann Statement: June 16th, 2020
Since the recent police appeals regarding Madeleine’s disappearance there have been many inaccurate stories reported in the media. The widely reported news that we have a received a letter from the German authorities that states there is evidence or proof that Madeleine is dead is FALSE. Like many unsubstantiated stories in the media, this has caused unnecessary anxiety to friends and family and once again disrupted our lives.

As we have stated many times before, we will not give a running commentary on the investigation- that is the job of the law enforcement agencies and we will support them in any way requested. Furthermore, we do not have a family spokesperson nor are we actively paying any lawyers. Any recent comments attributed in the media have not come from us unless they have been posted on our website. If there are important developments that can be made public, they will be issued through official police channels.


Kate and Gerry

 

[photographer4]

Salient stuff only - not everything - from the first part of the 60 Minutes special ..... (second part coming up, if I have time)


Presenter: The evil that befell Maddie has never had a name until now.

German Prosecutor (GP): We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead

Expert: I see a lot of clues and a lot of evidence that he is a psychopath who has an escalating fantasy of violence that maybe ended in abducting and killing Madeleine McCann

Brueckner: In an internet chatroom “ I will document exactly how they will be tortured”

Expert = Mark Hoffman is a German crime and intelligence agent who works with German police and has studied Christian Brueckner’s sordid and criminal past.

GP: The prosecutor’s office is investigating a 43 year old German national on the suspicion of murder. We are assuming that the girl is dead.

Expert: Christian B he is the serial offender in many past cases. He was criminal and he was in prison, and he did it again and again and again, 17 or 18 times. This absolutely matches the facts of the evidence.
Number One – he was there. With most serial offenders it is all about power and control, and they like to do it in environments which are their comfort zone. So they are doing what they do near to the places where they live.
Re the rape of the 72 year old woman “This is not just rape, this is one of the most brutal rapes possible.

From a police document … The accused forced the naked, bound and gagged woman to stand up – and he beat her repeatedly on her chest, lower abdomen, arms and buttocks with a metal object he had brought with him.

Presenter: Mark Hoffman says the little girl was a target for Brueckner as much as his elderly victim

Expert: For some layman this can be confusing. How can this be the same offender? I mean raping an elderly woman, and raping or abusing or killing children. Well, it is really important to understand, is that many child offenders are not pedophiles, so for them it is not about the young age itself, it’s about weakness, about vulnerability, and feeling a sense of power. So they like to abduct easy victims. And if you ask me, elderly women and children, this is not a contradiction. It is one of the biggest similarities.

Expert: It’s about violence, it’s about power, it’s about dominance, it’s about playing God. This is not just about sex or rape, this is about torture.

Simon Foy (Scotland Yard’s previous head of homicide): My experience of working with the German police is that they are very careful. What they say publicly, they would have recognised the significance of it, they would have recognised the international sensitivity of it, and they would probably have recognised the public interest in it. It’s the fact that they made that statement (that Madeleine is dead) is in itself significant.

GP: We have strong evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead. That our suspect killed her. But I am not allowed and am not able at the moment, to tell you all the details of our evidence. We don’t have the body, and no part of the body. But we have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine McCann. It was sometime in the last two years that we realised that she’s dead. We know that the phone number which was used by our suspect on the 3rd of May 2007 was connecting in the (mess ???) belongs to the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. (My note for myself 23:40 in the video)

Presenter: So what you are saying is you can place Christian Brueckner at the scene.

GP: Yes, we think so.

Expert: If he abducted Maddie McCann it is also likely that he just not abducted but killed her. And killing is likely for different reasons. Number One it’s likely because it is part of the fantasy, but Number Two it could also have practical reasons not to be arrested for this crime because she was old enough to talk.

Presenter: So shortly after Maddie was abducted, Brueckner slipped out of Portugal to Germany. A monster no-one knew was on the run.

Expert: If I look at his life and his criminal record, he is quite clear about his fantasy of abducting, torturing and f*ck*ng (bleeped out) children to name it, and this could be a serial killer in the making and it is absolutely a red flag, yes.

Respectfully bolded by me: wait - so this means the phone was OWNED by the Ocean Club? Or have I grossly misunderstood?

 

[photographer4]

Thanks for typing all of that out for those of us who can't watch it.

"It was sometime in the last two years that we realised that she’s dead."
- So sometime between 2018 ish until 2020?

Also about (mess???) I think it may be mass.

What made them realize it? Sounds to me like they've been looking over videos / photos and analyzing them, figuring out where the heck the footage was created... when... etc... and have found something featuring MM.
MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

PART TWO: (salient parts only)

In a pedophile chatroom …
Unknown other: How’s it going?
Brueckner: Bad with me. Want to f*ck a little girl
UO: Who doesn’t want that?
Brueckner: Catch something small and use it for days
UO: It is not without danger
Brueckner: Oh, if the evidence is destroyed after .. I will document exactly how they will be tortured
UO: Cool
Brueckner: Well let’s see. Not only talking but also doing it!

Expert: He is very clear about his fantasy about not only abducting children but torturing them and using them for days. So these are very clear words.
In reality they don’t start with murder or rape, this is the end of a long process of an escalating fantasy. Because, if you think about it, murder or homicide is like the purest form of domination, because they choose if the victims live or die. They play God.

Presenter: Christian Brueckner left Portugal in 2007, during the desperate search for Madeleine McCann. He moved to the German city of Brunswick (Braunschweig). An informant speaking anonymously said Brueckner rented a kiosk right next to a Kindergarten.

Informant: There is a Kindergarten and Junior School right next to the kiosk, they spent their pocket money on sweets here. He gave the kids lollies for free. He talked of creating a dungeon in this, a rented cottage. It has a cellar and he wanted to line it with heavy plates.

Presenter: This was in 2013, when police say he was fantasising in a pedophile chatroom. Then in 2015, just 2 hours drive from where Brueckner was living, another little girl, Inga Gehricke, disappeared. A dark van, similar to one Brueckner was driving at the time, is seen leaving the abduction site.
And Hans Christian Wolters says he believes there are others (victims).

GP: I think there are more victims of our suspect. There are other investigations all over Germany In every case the prosecutors will check if our suspect is the suspect in the other case. I don’t know, I don’t know (if they are dealing with a serial killer). I am not able to judge this.

Presenter: The McCann’s appeared on German TV two times. Each time there were tip offs. First the name Christian Brueckner, then in 2017 reports that Brueckner made a drunken confession to a friend. Police searched a deserted factory owned by Brueckner and made a grim discovery. Hard drives and USB sticks hidden in a bag buried with his dog.

Expert: It is on the property of Christian B they found material, which according to the current information, is like 8,000 pieces of videos and pictures and this is quite typical for this kind of offender. They are filming what they do, and sometimes they are fantasising about their crimes every day and every night – over and over and over and over again.

Presenter: Brueckner’s lair uncovered many secrets. And not only his ghastly videos, there was more. In his camper van, police discovered the swimsuits of little girls.
How on earth do the McCann family recover, if this man took their daughter?

Expert: I can just imagine how they feel right now. And being in the state of uncertainty, some people, some parents of missing children, say this uncertainty is worse than the fact or knowing that their child is dead.

Presenter: Do you suspect that Maddie McCann is one of the people who features in the videos or pictures?

Expert: I am quite sure that they have some good evidence. It could be videos. I mean, he was into child and torture, and he did crimes against children at a very early age, and according to current information he also filmed his offences so you can clearly say what happened there, if it’s on tape.

Presenter: Officer Wolters may have given us a clue.

Presenter: We do know that police recovered thousands of files of disturbing videos and pictures that you believe belong to Christian Brueckner. Is there evidence on those videos of Madeleine McCann?

GP: At the moment I am not allowed to… umm … contend that, so I am not able to say if there are pictures or if there are no pictures of Madeleine.

Presenter: If the authorities do have video proving Madeleine’s death, together with the phone trace showing Brueckner was in the area, then evidence from a witness or photograph putting Brueckner at the Ocean Club between 9 and 10pm on the night of May 3rd 2007 would be the last piece of the puzzle. And for Kate and Gerry McCann, the final terrible truth. It is painful information that perhaps only the parent of another missing child can understand.

https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes/2020/episode-21

 

[BellMat]

But didn't the McCann's say when they said they didn't get a letter from the German LE that they had no lawyer on their payroll?? This was recently in the news... a statement from them... (bolded statement about proof was included when I copied and pasted from the website, but the bold and italics regarding the lawyer are done by me to direct your attention).

Updates: | findmadeleine.com

Kate & Gerry McCann Statement: June 16th, 2020
Since the recent police appeals regarding Madeleine’s disappearance there have been many inaccurate stories reported in the media. The widely reported news that we have a received a letter from the German authorities that states there is evidence or proof that Madeleine is dead is FALSE. Like many unsubstantiated stories in the media, this has caused unnecessary anxiety to friends and family and once again disrupted our lives.

As we have stated many times before, we will not give a running commentary on the investigation- that is the job of the law enforcement agencies and we will support them in any way requested. Furthermore, we do not have a family spokesperson nor are we actively paying any lawyers. Any recent comments attributed in the media have not come from us unless they have been posted on our website. If there are important developments that can be made public, they will be issued through official police channels.


Kate and Gerry

I assume that means they don’t have a lawyer actively working for them right now, someone on retainer?

I’ve noticed Clarence Mitchell speaking on their behalf, which seems a bit dodgy. He hasn’t said anything bad but he should clarify he’s the family’s former spokesman when media approach him for comment. Ditto ex lawyers. I’m sure they’re all trying to help, but still ....

 

[SouthAussie]

Respectfully bolded by me: wait - so this means the phone was OWNED by the Ocean Club? Or have I grossly misunderstood?

I listened to that part several times - because I couldn't get the 'mess' part to make sense - he definitely said owned. His English is very good.

I also just want to comment that everything I typed was from sit-down interviews with these people. Nothing taken from German pressers or anything like that. These are the actual English words from all of the participants.
Except for the internet chatroom stuff, that was screenshot by 60 Minutes (or someone) from police reports. They showed bits of the police reports.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

If the McCanns aren’t actively paying a lawyer, could someone be working for them pro bono, or working for them but paid by someone else eg family member? I did find the wording odd and almost seemed designed to mislead.

 

[photographer4]

I listened to that part several times - because I couldn't get the 'mess' part to make sense - he definitely said owned. His English is very good.

I also just want to comment that everything I typed was from sit-down interviews with these people. Nothing taken from German pressers or anything like that. These are the actual English words from all of the participants.
Except for the internet chatroom stuff, that was screenshot by 60 Minutes (or someone) from police reports. They showed bits of the police reports.

How then was CB using a phone OWNED by the Ocean Club? Was he under their employ in some capacity, or did he perhaps STEAL an employee's phone? Is it then possible that that if he stole a phone or borrowed a phone from an employee, that this is why they put out the phone number in the media? If the phone is registered as owned by the Ocean Club... they really have to prove it was in his hands, otherwise his lawyer can just say it wasn't in his name, and he didn't use it at the time or at all.