Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[margarita25]

As we've seen in history with Vietnam, Iraq, etc, remember that there is usually an "incident" which precedes a justification for war. jmo

<if there's ever a good time for conspiracy theories, now would be a good one. jmo>

 

[sorrell skye]

I agree. TBH Putin likes playing mind games just like another other government. And I don't think he supplied the rebels with the battery or anything special. Just enough so that the rebels have an even fight I feel.

But it is his support for the rebels that will be criticised. Like a politician said, he has the ability to stop these rebels. So Putin, do the damn honorable thing and have a bloody ceasefire! Damn u and the rebels!

Above BBM

Although it hasn't yet been determined or confirmed who supplied the SAM to the rebels, here's what Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also warned about potential consequences for Russia — if they were involved: "The questions I'd be asking is who could have shot it down, who had the equipment — it's obviously an anti-aircraft missile. Who had the expertise to do that? There does seem to be growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents. If there is evidence pointing in that direction, the equipment had to come from Russia. What more the Russians might or might not have done, we don't know." She cautioned, however, that the investigation was still ongoing.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5913209/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia

 

[zwiebel]

A shocking photograph released today by an Ukrainian official shows the harrowing image of an infant victim lying on its own in a field. The baby, who is pictured sprawled in the dirt near the crash site, is thought to be the youngest victim of the crash.

Ukraine government advisor Anton Gerashchenko, who published the picture, told Mr Putin that 'This baby's death is on your conscience.' The nationality of the infant is still unknown.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ck-killed-298-people-board.html#ixzz37qJPgYVo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

OMG. The children. The children.

I hope President Putin gets eaten by a bear. The Russian Bear. It slumbers long and deep and endures the worst of treatments, but when it wakes, it has no mercy.

 

[jellybeanz]

from June 24th 2014
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10922531/Vladimir-Putin-revokes-Russias-mandate-for-use-of-military-force-in-Ukraine.html


From 13th May 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger


Two 'historical' pieces worth reading IMO.

 

[wb180]

Above BBM

Although it hasn't yet been determined or confirmed who supplied the SAM to the rebels, here's what Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also warned about potential consequences for Russia — if they were involved: "The questions I'd be asking is who could have shot it down, who had the equipment — it's obviously an anti-aircraft missile. Who had the expertise to do that? There does seem to be growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents. If there is evidence pointing in that direction, the equipment had to come from Russia. What more the Russians might or might not have done, we don't know." She cautioned, however, that the investigation was still ongoing.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5913209/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia

Happy to be proven wrong with evidence later but right now, I doubt Putin supplied them with such weaponry. Putin isn't that stupid. He knows people are watching this civil war. He has different political interests involved. That's why I think he is just supplying enough for the rebels to get by without them pestering him and without people noticing too much. Maybe that's why, on the tape, those rebels were checking for weapons (maybe better weaponry)

 

[noor]

Well Gitana, and all others who deemed this a Usefull Post, let me put it to you like this, in the most friendly way possible:

I am a Dutch woman, living in The Netherlands. If you think that I'm in anyway impressed by an American lecturing me about my country, it's politics, leadership and the lack therof and the emotions that my countrymen and I are going through at this moment, based on something that some travellers have said to a correspondent of The Guardian, wel ..... kindly think again.

I do not demand the Dutch to react angry. I am one of the many Dutch who are angry as we speak.

"There's a particularly sobering statistic that emphasizes the magnitude of this tragedy: with the reported death count now including 189 passengers from the Netherlands, the MH17 crash has claimed the lives of a greater share of the country's population than the September 11th attacks did in the US."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-295-aboard-7-17-2014&p=10763501#post10763501

Thank you.

Hallo ZaZara,
I'm dutch also, living the USA.
I saw the news conference the prime minister gave this morning.
I was a little surprised that the Netherlands, as of yet, think it's too early to say what happened to the plane .
I was very happy to hear all the countries are coming together.
I can't tell you how sad I am.

 

[margarita25]

Also, remember guys, the media fiasco re: MAL 1? We have to take everything we read with a grain of salt. jmo

 

[wb180]

Also, remember guys, the media fiasco re: MAL 1? We have to take everything we read with a grain of salt. jmo

Maybe but it's pretty clear it was the rebels who shot down the plane.

 

[jellybeanz]

Personally, I think the whole Ukraine situation is a big tangled web. Not that I have any love for Putin, but the Ukrainian Govt has been extremely corrupt for years. They aren't exactly trustworthy in my eyes.

I completely agree.

 

[noor]

So am I. My mother is from Holland and one half of my entire family lives there.

My entire family lives there, I'm in the USA.

 

[margarita25]

Maybe but it's pretty clear it was the rebels who shot down the plane.

Not saying that this is not the case, just saying I don't believe everything anyone necessarily says. In other words, governments feed media information. jmo
(my same words from MAL 1 threads)

:wave:

 

[CARIIS]

Ugh oh

I am AMerican. I am NOT CERTAINLY implying that an American life is anything more than any other. But CNN is now reporting that there was one AMerican aboard - politically that is a big deal in IMO.

A N D for the first time they just played ANOTHER tape (earlier than shootdown) between Russian guys and the terrorists discussing the need to hide the launcher. One pweone on the call referred to the killing maching as a "beauty" and used the pronoun "she" when talking about "her" - pretty disgusting IMO

I like the new format - is there a spell check that would be heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wb180]

Not saying that this is not the case, just saying I don't believe everything anyone necessarily says. jmo
(my same words from MAL 1 threads)

:wave:

That's fine no problems. I just don't like all these governments talking BS when everyone knows it was the rebels who done it. Eg tape hasn't been verified - BS. I am sure they know the people talking on that tape.
I am sure they have sat images of the battery being moved around.

 

[fran]

Not sure if this is already posted.



Russia Today reporter resigns in protest at MH17 coverage
Sara Firth criticises Kremlin-backed news channel’s ‘disrespect for facts’ in reports about Malaysia Airlines plane disaster

A London-based correspondent of Kremlin-funded news channel Russia Today has resigned in protest at its coverage of the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

Sara Firth, who worked at Russia Today for five years, described the channel’s reporting of the crash in which 298 people were killed, including a former BBC journalist, as the “straw that broke the camel’s back”.

Russia Today, which has been criticised as a propaganda mouthpiece for the Russian government, suggested Ukraine was to blame for the crash, while most media organisations have said it was shot down by a suspected Russian-made missile.

read more ............. http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-reporter-resigns-sara-firth-kremlin-malaysia

 

[margarita25]

Could someone be trying to make a statement, that MAL 1 was not an accident?

 

[ilovepierre]

" File this under "unsettling coincidences": Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, a Boeing 777, made its first flight on July 17, 1997, 17 years ago to the day, according to a tweet from the New York Times’ C.J. Chivers"
http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-crash-c...e-coincidence-first-last-flight-dates-1631648

Very odd...if you ask me.

 

[ilovepierre]

I admit i'm a tin foil hatter. :giggle: IMO, this was planned. The chances are real slim, this was an oops by whoever on the ground. That may change as the days go by though.

Now were back to who, how, and why.

I agree.
No way you "accidentally" shoot a passenger jet out of the sky.
Especially since they look nothing like military planes.

Why Malaysia Air, though? That is something I hope we get an answer to.
Maybe that will help explain what may have happened to MH370.

 

[jellybeanz]

Are you sure it was the Ukranian government's army that's reported to have carried out the bombing? Or the Pro-Russian (and many are actually Russian) rebel army?

Just asking, because I don't know.

If you watch the video zwiebel, it is clear the people left in the area have no love for Poroshenko.
The OSCE is clear that there are no military installations in the area and school buildings and residential areas have been bombed indiscriminately.

It is so sad.

 

[sorrell skye]

Putin can't hide behind plausible deniability.

The Ukrainian separatist rebels recently set up offices in Moscow, per CNN. They requested arms, tanks, heavy weaponry, etc., from Russia, which they have apparently been supplied with, according to intelligence reports.

Putin went through the motions this past June of pretending to support a peaceful resolution in the region by requesting the Russian Parliament to cancel the authorization to use military force against Ukraine, yet the supplies of arms has continued to flow across the border and the conflict has escalated. A Ukrainian military transport plane, a Ukrainian military helicopter, and a Ukrainian military fighter jet were all recently shot down by separatist forces - using weapons that were undoubtedly supplied by Russia.

I think Putin pays nothing more than lip service to a peaceful resolution.

Now a civilian jetliner has been shot down. 298 innocent souls lost.

Putin can blame the Ukrainian government all he wants, but the writing is on the wall for all the world to see.

 

[jjenny]

I agree.
No way you "accidentally" shoot a passenger jet out of the sky.
Especially since they look nothing like military planes.

Why Malaysia Air, though? That is something I hope we get an answer to.
Maybe that will help explain what may have happened to MH370.

If it's flying at 32,000 feet, I don't think you are going to notice what it looks like. As for "no way" it's been done before a number of times. Even US itself accidentally shot a civilian plane. Ukraine did as well.