Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[ZaZara]

From the official twitter acoount of The Netherlands'Mission at the UNSC:

Full Netherlands United Nations Security Council statement on #MH17 & #Ukraine:
https://twitter.com/NLatUN/status/490164266927128577



This is not a transcript but a ping-document. The message is available as a picture only

 

[zwiebel]

"This was a global tragedy," Obama said. "An Asian airliner was destroyed in European skies filled with citizens from many countries, so there has to be a credible international investigation into what happened."

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/washington/obama-plane-shot-down-missile-1-american-dead/

 

[gitana1]

Whatever else he may be, Putin isn't a "nut," he's a hard nosed geopolitical power player. This article offers a very interesting analysis of the situation in Ukraine before this happened:

http://pando.com/2014/05/30/war-ner...-is-very-simple-rational-and-straightforward/

Whoever actually fired the missile would have had to have had some level of training and guidance, probably covertly by Russian secret or special forces, but they could well have been a local hot head or militia member. Putin's overstepped the mark with this and probably realises it behind the cold exterior. The intention was almost certainly never to have >200 Western Europeans and Anglosphere dead, that level of international incident doesn't serve his interests.

Oh, you can be a "hard-nosed geo-politcal player" and still be a nut:

But it isn't just a better understanding of Russia that may be needed going forward in government and, by extension, academia. U.S. officials, asserts Brzezinski, have been slow to grasp the peculiar psychology of Putin himself: the would-be strongman who likes having himself photographed bare-chested or dropping opponents in judo matches; the iron leader with a savior complex. "There is very little in Putin's conduct that is purely in Russian history," he says. "A lot of it is strikingly similar to Hitler and Mussolini—that narcissistic megalomania, which becomes more acute the more people around you are kissing your behind." http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/wrestling-with-putin-20140403

 

[zwiebel]

Chicago SunTimes has been tweeting President Obama's speech. He says the US stands with the Netherlands.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Suntimes/tweets

 

[sorrell skye]

As far as I'm concerned, Putin bears the full responsibility for this tragedy.

I think it goes without saying that had he not authorized the supply of heavy arms, especially the SAM, to the separatists, these 298 souls would still be alive.

He needs to order the rebels to stand down so that the investigation can be safely & thoroughly conducted and so that the remains of the deceased can be recovered and returned to their families.

I hope this isn't going to require a UN peace-keeping team to have to go in there.

The ball's in Putin's court. I hope he does the right thing for once.

 

[skibaboo]

Empty, locked up flower shop belonging to one of the Dutch victims, but lined with bouquets left in tribute outside.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ErinCNN/status/490101246435819520/photo/1

Such an incredibly poignant picture :tears:

 

[zwiebel]

Pres Obama has also said he has increasing confidence shots came from Russian-controlled part of Ukraine, and the conflict there isn't going to be kept 'localized or be contained.'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

 

[dotr]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2014/07/18/21816181.html

Very sad for all the families who lost their loved ones in this tragedy ...
bbm


"TORONTO — A 24-year-old Ontario man was among the 298 people killed aboard a Malaysian airliner brought down in eastern Ukraine Thursday, QMI Agency has learned.

Andrei Anghel, a University of Waterloo graduate, had been studying in Romania, according to a friend who requested anonymity.

Anghel's parents contacted Malaysia Airlines and confirmed their son was aboard the ill-fated flight, the friend said. Anghel had been planning a vacation to Bali with his girlfriend, who was also aboard the jetliner, according to the friend.

"I keep hoping I'll wake up and this will all be a bad dream," his sister, Alexandra Anghel, posted on her Facebook page. "My baby brother, my best friend, my life... I am so numb and my heart is so broken. I love you so much. Please help me stay strong for mom and dad. I don't know how to get through this without you.

"My heart goes out to the rest of the families who lost their hearts on that plane."

 

[Isabelle]

Dutch-French photographer Pierre Crom is at the location of the crash:

https://twitter.com/PierreCrom/status/490164054066212864


And off they go. No inspection done by OSCE today.

A Rambo type militia needs to move in and take these idiots out of this world!

 

[zwiebel]

I'm tending to think at this time, that an investigation overlooked and controlled by armed and (in my opinion) trigger-happy, thuggish, ill-trained soldiers who may actually be responsible for taking the plane out of the skies, stands no chance of success.

I think the best investigators can hope for is to be allowed to search for and repatriate victims. They might be better off forgetting about the investigation, in order to achieve that.

I also think there is a good chance the US already has a lot more evidence than European nations, about who supplied the missile, and who may have fired it. If they release that info, I think immediate economic sanctions from victims' home countries, against the nation responsible, would be highly effective.

I don't think that is likely to happen though.

 

[princesspjs]

Empty, locked up flower shop belonging to one of the Dutch victims, but lined with bouquets left in tribute outside.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ErinCNN/status/490101246435819520/photo/1

Thank you for this. I was on his facebook page last night. He was on a vacation with his girlfriend. A lovely couple, so in love. From the pictures that they post, they have a lot of love and a huge circle of friends.

I searched this thread for his name and no one has posted it so I'm not sure if WS is allowing us to post info of the victims here. I haven't read the thread yet so I'm gonna play it safe and not.

I'm so sad for all of the families.

 

[zwiebel]

I suppose.....it has to be coincidence that there was only one US citizen aboard, and that person is one of only four victims out of all the passengers, who has not been identified yet?

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you for this. I was on his facebook page last night. He was on a vacation with his girlfriend. A lovely couple, so in love. From the pictures that they post, they have a lot of friends and a huge circle of friends.

I searched this thread for his name and no one has posted it so I'm not sure if WS is allowing us to post info of the victims here. I haven't read the thread yet so I'm gonna play it safe and not.

I'm so sad for all of the families.

Was it the blonde couple? I think I saw their photo on the BBC website.

I think it is okay to identify anyone identified in mainstream media, as I do believe in acknowledging victims.

Early on though, one victim's mom was called by a journalist and told to turn on the tv (she hadn't heard the news). I can't say what I think about that.

 

[ZaZara]

Well Gitana, and all others who deemed this a Usefull Post, let me put it to you like this, in the most friendly way possible:

I am a Dutch woman, living in The Netherlands. If you think that I'm in anyway impressed by an American lecturing me about my country, it's politics, leadership and the lack therof and the emotions that my countrymen and I are going through at this moment, based on something that some travellers have said to a correspondent of The Guardian, wel ..... kindly think again.

I do not demand the Dutch to react angry. I am one of the many Dutch who are angry as we speak.

"There's a particularly sobering statistic that emphasizes the magnitude of this tragedy: with the reported death count now including 189 passengers from the Netherlands, the MH17 crash has claimed the lives of a greater share of the country's population than the September 11th attacks did in the US."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-295-aboard-7-17-2014&p=10763501#post10763501

Thank you.

Ouch. I'm not sure where you're getting this info. Holland is an ally of ours that has been heavily involved in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and is involved in various peace-keeping missions. Holland is a peaceful nation but not a cowardly one. The PM stated more than you wrote and at the time he was quoted, it was soon after the tragedy occurred. What was he supposed to do? Start screaming for war before he even knew what had happened?

Regardless, if you are demanding that the Dutch react angrily or violently or hate their PM if he doesn't call for war or make inflammatory statements, you will be disappointed. The Dutch are steadfast regarding justice but are not a vengeful people:

"Asked how they felt the Dutch government should react to the tragedy, Van den Akker said: "What happened was awful, and we are all thinking of the victims. But we are not going to call for the government to go and catch the perpetrators or go to war. We are not America."" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/dutch-travellers-react-calmly-loss-flight-mh17

 

[time]

Well, technically the weapons Ukrainian army has that are capable of downing a plane was made by the Soviet Union. So Ukraine could say the missile was not Ukrainian. That doesn't mean Ukraine itself didn't fire it.

Personally, I think the whole Ukraine situation is a big tangled web. Not that I have any love for Putin, but the Ukrainian Govt has been extremely corrupt for years. They aren't exactly trustworthy in my eyes.

 

[Lyra500]

I suppose.....it has to be coincidence that there was only one US citizen aboard, and that person is one of only four victims out of all the passengers, who has not been identified yet?

I am sure President Obama stated the name of the US passenger in the speech he just gave at the White House. I am afraid I cannot remember it, but he quoted their full name and said at the moment this was the only person confirmed to have a US passport.

Can't find anything on Google, but that might just be because he spoke fairly recently.

 

[princesspjs]

Was it the blonde couple? I think I saw their photo on the BBC website.

I think it is okay to identify anyone identified in mainstream media, as I do believe in acknowledging victims.

Early on though, one victim's mom was called by a journalist and told to turn on the tv (she hadn't heard the news). I can't say what I think about that.

It's the guy who posted the pic of the plane before they took off, in case they disappeared.

Can I post the facebooks here now? There are beautiful pictures.

 

[wb180]

I'm tending to think at this time, that an investigation overlooked and controlled by armed and (in my opinion) trigger-happy, thuggish, ill-trained soldiers who may actually be responsible for taking the plane out of the skies, stands no chance of success.

I think the best investigators can hope for is to be allowed to search for and repatriate victims. They might be better off forgetting about the investigation, in order to achieve that.

I also think there is a good chance the US already has a lot more evidence than European nations, about who supplied the missile, and who may have fired it. If they release that info, I think immediate economic sanctions from victims' home countries, against the nation responsible, would be highly effective.

I don't think that is likely to happen though.

I agree. I also think the governments have much more evidence. But since these are governments, they love playing politics first with each other. The lives of the dead people are secondary. Coz they are already dead.

Similar to what happened with MH370. Politics first and then searching for the plane second.

It bloody sucks.

 

[Elley Mae]

Well Gitana, and all others who deemed this a Usefull Post, let me put it to you like this, in the most friendly way possible:

I am a Dutch woman, living in The Netherlands. If you think that I'm in anyway impressed by an American lecturing me about my country, it's politics, leadership and the lack therof and the emotions that my countrymen and I are going through at this moment, based on something that some travellers have said to a correspondent of The Guardian, wel ..... kindly think again.

I do not demand the Dutch to react angry. I am one of the many Dutch who are angry as we speak.

"There's a particularly sobering statistic that emphasizes the magnitude of this tragedy: with the reported death count now including 189 passengers from the Netherlands, the MH17 crash has claimed the lives of a greater share of the country's population than the September 11th attacks did in the US."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-295-aboard-7-17-2014&p=10763501#post10763501

Thank you.

Oh I love hearing from you. I want to hear from the people, and not the politicians, not the media heads or someone that knows someone. Thanks for being here.

 

[princesspjs]

That is a horrible thing for a journalist to do!! JMO