Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #2

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  • #181
Just heard on radio Abbott saying he feared that Russia would make an appearance of cooperating with an investigation, while things on the ground do not change.

At least they've stopped pretending they can influence him.
 
  • #182
  • #183
osce.png


If all this press is there, it makes you wonder why a mass onslaught of inspectors, monitors, recovery teams aren’t just showing up at the site. The reporters are getting there somehow.

Even if they are warned by gunfire to stay back, it would sure show clearly to the rebels the solidarity of the rest of the world in their desire to reach the victims, and may have an effect. :dunno:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/24503557/ukraine-accuses-russia-of-helping-rebels-loot-crash-site/

I think that sometimes the power of a large, present, and silent protest can be significant.
 
  • #184
Ukraine accuses Russia of ‘helping destroy evidence’ as DNA collected from MH17 victims’ relatives

PRIME Minister Tony Abbott fears that while Russia might say the right things about an international investigation into the downed Malaysia Airlines flight 17, interference at the crash site will continue.

Mr Abbott described the crash site in eastern Ukraine as “chaotic” and reports of pro-Russian rebels meddling with the evidence - including the removal of bodies - as “outrageous”. Russia has agreed to an investigation amid mounting scepticism about its willingness to co-operate with the international community.

Mr Abbott remains concerned about security at the site.

“My fear is that Russia will say the right thing, but that on the ground interference with the site, interference with investigators, interference with the dignified treatment of bodies will continue,” he told ABC television on Sunday.
...

“Russian controlled territory, Russian-backed rebels, quite likely a Russian supplied weapon - Russia can’t wash its hands of this,” he said.

Mr Abbott would not say if he had tried to make contact with Russian President Vladimir Putin, nor if Australia would block his attendance at November’s G20 meeting in Brisbane.

“It’s not too late for changes of heart,” he said.


http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ictims-relatives/story-fnizu68q-1226994936490

Guess Putin isn't taking calls, regardless I expect his invitation to the G20 summit to be torn up.
 
  • #185
"The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first 200. We have found the first 200 - a civilian," Major says, referring to the codeword for a dead person.

"In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger aircraft.

"These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-phone-tap-separatists-responsibility/5606578
 
  • #186
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  • #188
I wonder what the locals think about all of this. Most of them speak Russian and I presume that that is how they get their news. Russian news blames the Ukrainian government for downing the plane. What are locals to think? Of course they will believe what they hear on the news. We do too.

I believe that the locals care. (excluding local militants who are much more likely to know what is going on!) How horrendous it must seem to have this disaster in their midst. Things were already bad enough and now...well now there are bodies lying in their fields.

How do we get out of this mess? Propaganda all around. We all look at the news through our personal "lens". ** Sigh. **

I had hoped that the internet would 'liberate' those who had previously had limited access to a broader range of news sources. But now I know how naive I was.

Hugs to all caring individuals, no matter where you reside. Let's feel free to question; to research alternate views.

BBM ~ From the link I posted last, the locals seem to be saying their lives ripped from right underneath them because of this fighting.. This must be very shocking for them as well.
 
  • #189
Every time I try to click the video link, one of my little ones peeks over my shoulder to ask me what I'm doing

:blushing:

These images are not suitable for children, by any means...

Another reason I haven't been able to view all of the media reports, videos & links.

There are some things they'll be able to "un-see" and I'd never forgive myself.

Although it is true, inthedark14, this could happen at anytime, and it IS...

:(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #190
  • #191
This vine video is linked in the NBC News story:



People's possessions are lying around... Someone's laptop computer the screen smashed... #MH17


https://t.co/jzlBYQlI08

— Keir Simmons (@KeirSimmons) July 19, 2014

https://vine.co/v/MQ3Z7XPU3Kw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saw the photo earlier today of the Apple laptop among the other possessions. Even with the screen broken it was surprising to see it was still there. It's heartbreaking that these monsters have no regard for the victims' possessions, or even consider returning them to family members.

MOO
 
  • #192
Interpol should place the passengers' passports locked somehow. We don't need identity theft with all this chaos.

passports-mh17.jpg
 
  • #193
Excellent video but it should have a graphic WARNING- IMO.

Fixed - sorry. The top of the webpage had a warning graphic, but yes, we can't have enough warnings.
 
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  • #195
BBM ~ From the link I posted last, the locals seem to be saying their lives ripped from right underneath them because of this fighting.. This must be very shocking for them as well.

ITA ElleElle, I cannot fathom what the people there are going through right now. Not only are they dealing with the civil war going on, now there are bodies crashing through their homes because some monster (whoever they are) shot a plane out of the sky at 33,000 feet.

For me, an American, I would liken it to a plane going down over farmland, say in the middle of Indiana. There would immediately be Medical Examiners and FAA inspectors on site. Admittedly, the "experts" would be flown in hours later, but certainly not days later. It is obviously a different scenario between the Ukraine in the midst of a civil war and rural Indiana. However, in 2014 the world is a very accessible place, especially for the powers that be as evidenced by the non partisan group that was at the site the very next morning.

Have we ever seen something like this in history? A situation where many people of many countries have perished due to an act of terrorism and non partisan (if I'm saying this wrong I'm sorry, but groups like OSCE or the Red Cross are not allowed in)?

The sad fact of the matter is that two days after the crash of MH17 the scene is not secure. Some of the people who perished have been sent to locations unknown. Others are still there, in the fields. No grid search has been done and international contingent has been allowed more than the briefest access.

The people that lost their lives aboard MH17 deserve far better than what is being given them. Their families deserve better. The world is not a state of civil war and it is unacceptable that the parties involved in their own conflict cannot, for the smallest moment, give peace to innocent victims of their mistakes.

Who steps in now? Who makes this right? Can this ever be made right?

ALWAYS MOO
 
  • #196
  • #197
Two bits of interesting things I picked up today.

I was chatting on another board with a fellow I have come to know who lives in Slovakia and who shares my opinions of Putin and his government. He says it is general knowledge at least there that Putin has very deep ties with the Russian Mafia. He had been protected by them in exchange for favorable treatment. Also that Putin is indeed highly popular in Russia but.. this is very unstable popularity. If ordinary Russians start hurting from sanctions he will be quickly ousted. He has millions already stashed away in other countries.

Also he mentioned that the real villains at the crash area are not the locals. A lot of them also despise the Russian militia because they push the locals around. Many of them are not from the area or even Ukraine. He says that he believes a lot of the personal possessions that have already been taken were taken by locals in order to keep them out of the hands of the Militia. Some of this stuff may eventually be turned over to neutral official for return to the families. One can hope..

This checks out with the impressions I get from watching videos of locals, most of them seem shocked and concerned about the victims.
 
  • #198
Not sure if this was posting, but I like the format of this video.

Those poor farmers are innocent as well.

http://www.redflagnews.com/headline...f-mh17-aftermath-russian-roulette-dispatch-60

This is a direct link to the video. I watched the video- it is graphic. I don't like to see the graphic images but it seems these harsh videos are the ones that have the least amount of spin.
You definitely get a different perspective of what was happening at the beginning- shocked locals, miners coming in to help search for bodies.

I alternate between holding my hand over the top of the screen so I can read the translation of what the locals say and not directly looking at the screen so I can still vaguely see what is going on. I also don't watch videos with sound. Even though what media shows is more than likely slanted to one perspective, watching without sound keeps it as impartial as I can hope to get. JMO

https://news.vice.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-mh17-aftermath-russian-roulette-dispatch-60
 
  • #199
  • #200
Not sure if this was posted, but I like the format of this video.

Those poor farmers are innocent as well.

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/exclusive-vice-news-footage-of-mh17-aftermath-russian-roulette-dispatch-


60

Flooding now.

I have seen bodies. Sucide decomp, murder arson. Not sqemish at all. But the devasting thing about it was my god there is a whole other groups of victims, and respectfully, they are alive . Talks about PSTD.

They going about their lives and the heavens open up with hurling corpses. Never thought about "velocity" until I watched this. I knwo I am not good with peroids, bit it just struck me that every position was a peroid in someones life .

Dead alreadyy probably, but still a final moment.

There were so many positions, not one the same it was unreal. The one that grabbed me the most was the chair with the arm raised and the clenched fist, The fist for some reason just ..............

ANd there was rage - they are sorting rubbish , in a dump truck while there are 300 bodies all around them, And look they were looking "through" everything before they threw it in , a truck they seemed to find for garbage.

A super compelling protrait of this.......................I will never think of this in the same manner as I did 15 minutes ago......its impossible

Each was a portrait ...........everyone totally different but in another way identical...............

A snapshot of impacting with earth ...................a total and complete finality.......

It was compelling ............thank you for posting it

whew.............................
 
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