Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[zwiebel]

Lots of breaking news tweet on twitter that US Intelligence just said 'no evidence of direct Russian Govt involvement'. Anyone seen TV reports?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC7

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Lots of breaking news tweet on twitter that US Intelligence just said 'no evidence of direct Russian Govt involvement'. Anyone seen TV reports?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC7

Interesting turn around .. anyone else feeling somewhat manipulated?

 

[ZaZara]

Lots of breaking news tweet on twitter that US Intelligence just said 'no evidence of direct Russian Govt involvement'. Anyone seen TV reports?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC7

BBM

No one ever claimed that the Russian Government was giving orders, so this is old news ... but where did the missile come from?

 

[ZaZara]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0

Brechtje vd Moosdijk ‏@Bright99 6 min.

US: No evidence of direct Russian link to plane - http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0 … #MH17

Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.

The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.

But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.

More at link: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0

 

[LambChop]

I don't think there was any ill intent behind it, but adding to the interference at the site is not exactly helping. It would hurt if you lost someone in the disaster to see their belongings being gone through IMO. How can we say it is not OK for rebels to touch things, but OK for journalists?

I would think the simplest explanation would be "intent". One was for personal gain. The other was for recovery. What is worse? Having reporters try and retrieve valuables to keep them from being looted or having a loved one's cell phone show up on ebay as a phone recovered from this disaster going to the highest bidder. JMO

 

[zwiebel]

'Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.'

http://mashable.com/2014/07/22/us-r...ial&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

ETA: Can't believe how many pple are running with the first paragraph story, without taking into account the second part of what US Intelligence said about separatists being Russian-backed.

 

[ZaZara]

In this video, Polish - American journalist Anne Applebaum explains Russia's involvement in Ukraine.

According to the renowned journalist/columnist Anne Applebaum the crash is the result of the Russian invasion in Eastern Ukraine that caused only chaos. Russian president Putin aimed to create that chaos and therefore he's guilty, argues Applebaum.

Must-see video for background info . All in English after 15 seconds.


[video]http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/677013-anne-applebaum-legt-schuld-bij-poetin.html[/video]



For more info on Anne Applebaum see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @JustHovensGreve - 56m

Brief statement by His Majesty the King after the gathering of next of kin of the air disaster victims https://t.co/BfPfEzBJZL #MH17

http://twitter.com/JustHovensGreve/status/491686850541940737



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[ZaZara]

Tweet from @JustHovensGreve - 56m

Brief statement by His Majesty the King after the gathering of next of kin of the air disaster victims https://t.co/BfPfEzBJZL #MH17

http://twitter.com/JustHovensGreve/status/491686850541940737



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Aaah, it's been translated! Thank goodness.....
Take a bow, Your Majesties

fftobed:

 

[jamiect]

:facepalm:
‏@maxseddon
Ukraine's parliament discusses #MH17 the only way it knows how: a fistfight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7afwywE7LI …

 

[MummaP]

In a previous MH17 Thread (#2 ?) somebody asked relevant questions in regards RED CROSS
and if they were called to the Crash site.
I have not been able to find any information in MSM media about Red Cross in Ukraine and MH17.

This is what I did find, but why were there no reports of Red Cross being alerted to go to the Crash site ?
Can somebody answer or find more MSM links ?



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-ukraine-crisis-warcrimes-idUSKBN0FR0V920140722
Published in Geneva 22.7.2014:
"(Reuters) - The Red Cross has made a confidential legal assessment that Ukraine is officially in a war, Western diplomats
and officials say, opening the door to possible war crimes prosecutions, including over the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH-17.
"Clearly it's an international conflict and therefore this is most probably a war crime," one Western diplomat in Geneva told Reuters.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is the guardian of the Geneva Conventions setting down the rules of war, and
as such is considered a reference in the United Nations deciding when violence has evolved into an armed conflict."


Official site for Ukrainian Red Cross
https://www.ifrc.org/en/what-we-do/where-we-work/europe/ukrainian-red-cross-society/
"The Ukrainian Red Cross Society, in collaboration with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has been responding to the recent outbreaks of violence in Kiev."


http://www.redcross.org.au/respect-the-emblem-in-the-ukraine-red-cross.aspx
Published TUESDAY JUNE 3, 2014
"Ukrainian Red Cross has provided emergency medical and other assistance to more
than 1,500 people affected by the crisis in the Ukraine. Photo: IFRC
Ukrainian Red Cross, Russian Red Cross, and the International Red Cross and
Red Crescent Movement are extremely concerned about the humanitarian situation resulting from the current crisis in Ukraine. "



Where was the Red Cross during and after the Crash, why were there not Red Cross volunteers pictured at all, did they not get access?
Normally Red Cross Volunteers play a vital role in emergencies...


E.g.
http://ispub.com/IJRDM/1/2/8296
"The American Red Cross is internationally recognized as the leader in disaster relief, but less well known is its role in providing psychological support services to those impacted by disasters, ranging from single family fires to mass fatality incidents. "
"In the fall of 1996, the Congress of the United States passed the Aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act, which gave the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) the responsibility to oversee support services to families of passengers involved in commercial aviation disasters in the United States and its territories. "
"Aviation disasters are not unlike other mass casualty events, in that there is usually a tremendous outpouring of volunteers who wish to contribute their services to help those grieving. Though well meaning, these volunteers can quickly overwhelm those they are trying to help. The Red Cross has developed a system to manage this inflow of volunteers. A Staff Processing Center (SPC) is often set up in or near the relief operations headquarters. All volunteer and paid staff must process in and out of this center. Licenses and credentials are checked"....


Why where there not any reports about the Red Cross in Ukraine ?

Thanks for posting this, i've asked a few times about the international red cross. I grew up next door to a pretty senior volunteer for them & have always had much respect for them. They're also known for their impartiality, and can usually be found in & around war zones.
Their absence here has never sat well with me, it just makes me think it's worse than we can ever imagine if they're not there...

It seems they may have been there though, in some small way?

This is all just so horrific, it's like Lockerbie, 9/11, And the Tsunami, all rolled into 1 big horrible, never ending disaster...

 

[Trident]

Interesting turn around .. anyone else feeling somewhat manipulated?

No. I don't manipulate easily. But I am good at reading between the lines.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

No. I don't manipulate easily. But I am good at reading between the lines.

The way I'm reading things is the west has decided not to bring the hammer down on Russia and is gradually backing down from the tough talk of the past few days ..

 

[prospektor]

"created the conditions"

And that's gonna be the official position till the end of time, washing their hands in innocence while encouraging Kiev to continue airstrikes and artillery bombardment, as if those people who have to bury their dead children and then join the separatists swearing revenge are no part of the "conditions".
Instead of playing the blame game they should install a no-fly-zone. Not like in Libya, when that was actually used to bomb the rebels to victory (surely the US doesn't want that in Ukraine), but a real no-fly-zone: neither military aircrafts nor anti-aircraft weapons are allowed in that area. But as long as airstrikes continue while civil aircrafts are allowed to fly there as well, this is bound to happen again.

 

[Little Jedi]

ZaZara, I'm going to have a look for which US media source supposedly said this. Very interesting if true!

That is just TOO convenient. It spotted beer bottles. Not hard spirits. So every Russian and Eastern Ukrainian will know it it couldn't have been the pro-Russian rebels who left them.

I do not believe there were any Ukrainian Govt troops in the area. The rebels and Russians were boasting just before that they'd all been driven out. I don't think this report can be correct.

To me, US reluctance to publically release all the information it gleaned has an obvious cause - it will provide Russia with a lot of information about US intelligence in the area, if they do.

:seeya:
I'm just catching up so sorry if this has been linked already.


Here's the original article
Written by a U.S. journalist who's got a very credible history breaking stories concerning C.I.A.

*Written by Robert Parry*

What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?


"......U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

Instead of pressing for these kinds of details, the U.S. mainstream press has simply passed on the propaganda coming from the Ukrainian government and the U.S. State Department, including hyping the fact that the Buk system is “Russian-made,” a rather meaningless fact that gets endlessly repeated.

This charge is so serious that it could propel the world into a second Cold War and conceivably – if there are more such miscalculations – into a nuclear confrontation. :scared:

* Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s.

He was awarded the George Polk Award for National Reporting in 1984.
He has been the editor of ConsortiumNews.com since 1995. *

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/

* http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist) *

 

[kimi_SFC]

In this video, Polish - American journalist Anne Applebaum explains Russia's involvement in Ukraine.




Must-see video for background info . All in English after 15 seconds.


[video]http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/677013-anne-applebaum-legt-schuld-bij-poetin.html[/video]



For more info on Anne Applebaum see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum

This is definitely a MUST WATCH! Thank you (once again) ZaZara! This video gives a synopsis of the entire situation in an eloquent, thoughtful, honest, and to-the-point manner.




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[SouthAussie]

"Australian forensic experts, including the team from the Victorian Institute of Forensive Medicine, led by Professor David Ranson will arrive in Amsterdam on Wednesday and will go straight to Hilversum.

The team will also include mortuary technicians, odontologists and fingerprint experts.

Relatives of the Australian victims have already provided police with DNA and other personal information about their loved ones which will also be used to help the identification process.

The bodies of the Australian victims will ultimately be handed to a funeral contractor who will prepare them for the long journey home in specially iced caskets inside the cargo hold of the RAAF’s biggest aircraft."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mh...-flies-them-home/story-fniztvne-1226998041829


(Don't mean to appear biased in the Aussie reporting, but I just want Aussie posters to know what is happening with our people. We do care very much about all the victims :rose

 

[Isabelle]

BBM

No one ever claimed that the Russian Government was giving orders, so this is old news ... but where did the missile come from?

The owner of the equipment should be held responsible.

 

[Little Jedi]

Lots of breaking news tweet on twitter that US Intelligence just said 'no evidence of direct Russian Govt involvement'. Anyone seen TV reports?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC7

RT :wink:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is definitely a MUST WATCH! Thank you (once again) ZaZara! This video gives a synopsis of the entire situation in an eloquent, thoughtful, honest, and to-the-point manner.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that is a MUST WATCH!! Thank you for nudging me to watch it properly Frightening how predictable this was .. I'm so saddened that planes were still allowed to fly over such a dangerous area ..