Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[dotr]

In case you missed it earlier on this thread:

On Tuesday, 22 July 2014, the Dutch writer and poet Theodor Holman published his daily column in the Dutch newspaper Het Parool. This time he wrote an impressive poem about the immense emotional impact the shooting down of passenger flight MH117 in Ukraine and subsequent death of all passengers and crew had on him.

The poem is called Ik ben de rouwrand, de woede, de afschuw en nog zo veel meer. This translates in English as I am the black border, the anger, the disgust and so many more.


The poem has been translated into English by another poet, Asher ben Avram, and is presented on the National Day of Mourning in The Netherlands which has been declared by the Dutch government.



http://ashershersenspinsels.wordpre...-the-black-border-the-anger-and-so-many-more/


I am a freedom fighter, so you must do as I tell you.

Thanks for posting that brilliant poem, very poignant imo.
A bit more from link.


"I am the peasant who saw bodies falling out of the sky.

And I, I got two corpses on my roof.

I am the body that fell down in sunflowers.

And I am a rebel, what do you mean I made a mistake?

I am a missile, I wish I knew how to be ashamed.

I am a soldier, a friend of him over there, we are not to blame.

I am their enemy, but I know nothing".

 

[Little Jedi]

I don’t know guys. Starting to ponder if, after the first 24 hours, Ukraine is throwing out a lot of propaganda. I get it – go while the oven is hot. BUT

If you and I are on, for lack of a better term, on the same side if I said:

"Our friends from high above are very much interested in the of the 'black boxes.

I think you would know what we are talking about.

Or if I said

…(the)..people from Moscow."

I think we too, would have clarity.

But in thinking about it this feels like overkill:
"Our friends from high above are very much interested in the fate of the 'black boxes.' I mean people from Moscow."

, redundant not natural flow?

And then today maybe the shots were from Russia itself –---- let’s be frank all our allies WOULD know if they were shot from Russia --- instantly. So far the only ones making that allegation is Ukraine

I would think, that if all of , our allies , KNEW they were fired From Russia, that info would be disseminated by all of us to the world. Kind of serious!

There is just too much from Ukraine, alone, with no confirmation from all these other very sophisticated nations with far superior technological skill sets???
"

Some analysts say that we cannot just go into someone else's country with military and police. We must be invited/allowed. And then what happens if there is an incident and one of our military or police are killed. Does this then escalate? Do we risk more bloodshed to investigate the previous bloodshed? :dunno:

Such a difficult call.

yeh ... and as if reported today "someone" shot down two more planes today I would conclude they whomever has not cooled off, or be smart enoguht to at least quit for a week or so pretty ballsey --- that is why I do not think they came from Russia itself..............pretty stupid if so...........

And just ........maybe Ukraine could chill on sending its planes over there while everyone is out of control --- I knda think they are trying to keep working the world into a frenzy they, IMO need to calm down as well

we need some ice on the area..................................everybody, over there, settle down NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Gosh

With Ukraine sending troops in and ramping up the hostilities I do not think we should be sending investigators in .. too dangerous and I do wonder at the timing of that ..

*Please note the date !*


Escalating Ukraine conflict could impact Chernobyl’s radiation shield

*April 26th 2014*

An escalating conflict between Ukraine and Russia could impact the construction of Chernobyl’s radiation shield...

Work on the containment shield was halted earlier this month. But the new containment shield is becoming increasingly crucial as the old sarcophagus, which was hastily put in place after the nuclear accident in 1986, is deteriorating rapidly. Just last winter parts of the concrete coating on the old shield collapsed.

So the containment new shield is essential to keep the region safe from further radiation leaks.

“What can never be forgotten is that the destruction caused by the deadly explosion at Chernobyl was triggered by the release of just 3% of the radioactive material in the plant; the remaining 97% of this enormous ‘ticking timebomb’ of highly unstable nuclear material is still inside the crumbling Chernobyl complex,”

European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) describe the current timeline, with a deadline in 2015, as “ambitious.”

* And if the current conflict in Ukraine worsens, the new containment shield could be further delayed.*

http://green-blog.org/archives/news/energy/escalating-ukraine--could-impact-chernobyls-radiation-shield

 

[CARIIS]

Retweeted by Noah Sneider Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 11h
#MH17 crash site completely unsecured today. No militia watching over, no investigators. But many TV reporters filming stand-ups amid debris

 

[CARIIS]

Retweeted by Noah Sneider Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 11h
#MH17 crash site completely unsecured today. No militia watching over, no investigators. But many TV reporters filming stand-ups amid debris

oppsssss Lemon just opppsssss: "I wanna play with Wolf Blitzer...I wanna play this clip from Wolf...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dotr]

Retweeted by Noah Sneider Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 11h
#MH17 crash site completely unsecured today. No militia watching over, no investigators. But many TV reporters filming stand-ups amid debris

Half expecting Borat at the scene.

 

[Little Jedi]

Half expecting Borat at the scene.

:giggle:

 

[Insp.Gadget]

There is/was someone on this thread who worked with the Red Cross, who may be able to answer your question. But aren't the Red Cross present just for the victims? I read that Israel just let the Red Cross in to pull deceased persons from Gaza.

I think the Aussie consideration is to protect investigators, which falls outside the Red Cross scope of work, to my understanding.

RED CROSS = Organization whose humanitarian mission is to protect the lives and dignity
of victims of war and internal violence and to provide them with assistance.
http://www.icrc.org/eng/


"The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is a humanitarian
institution based in Geneva, Switzerland and a three-time Nobel Prize Laureate.
The official mission statement says that: "The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is an
impartial, neutral, and independent organization whose exclusively humanitarian mission is to protect
the lives and dignity of victims of war and internal violence and to provide them with assistance."
It also directs and coordinates international relief and works to promote and strengthen humanitarian law
and universal humanitarian principles.[16] The core tasks of the Committee, which are derived from the
Geneva Conventions and its own statutes[17] are:
to monitor compliance of warring parties with the Geneva Conventions
to organize nursing and care for those who are wounded on the battlefield
to supervise the treatment of prisoners of war and make confidential interventions with detaining authorities
to help with the search for missing persons in an armed conflict (tracing service)
to organize protection and care for civil populations
to act as a neutral intermediary between warring parties
The ICRC drew up seven fundamental principles in 1965 that were adopted by the entire Red Cross Movement.
They are humanity, impartiality, neutrality, independence, volunteerism, unity, and universality."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross#Mission



when it states Red Cross's mission is to protect dignity of victims, I would think it means also DIGNITY
of the victims remains and Clean-UP processes! ????

I find it difficult to understand why the Red Cross was not present from the very start at the day of the
Crash. Ukraine and Russia both have Red Cross.... Other neutral european countries have Red Cross, it's
an international Organization!

 

[Little Jedi]

^^ Red Cross ^^

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be sent into an active war zone

ETA ~ Someone here who's in the Red Cross did explain, I think thread #2 but I'm sorry I can't remember who.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

What could Red Cross have done .. why risk their lives too .. if I was journalist I'd be hoping to be reassigned somewhere safer, not sure how they manage to sleep at night if at all .. scary.

 

[BJsleuth]

Meanwhile, Britain says it has taken delivery of two flight data recorders from the plane, and the International Committee of the Red Cross says it is ready to help facilitate movements of specialists to the site, which is still under rebel control. The Red Cross also has sent a representative to Ukraine to discuss the effects of the conflict on the citizens of eastern Ukraine.

BBM.

From:
http://m.voanews.com/a/mh17-victims-remains-readied-for-flight-to-netherlands/1963317.html

 

[BJsleuth]

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/d...-ihl-repatriate-bodies-malaysian-airlines.htm

International humanitarian law also requires that all possible measures be taken to search for the dead, prevent the theft of their personal effects and hand them over to their relatives for burial. Following the terrible incident on 17 July, the ICRC contacted both the Ukrainian government and the representatives of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic to offer its services in connection with the management of the bodies. "The ICRC is prepared to facilitate the movements and activities of the specialists until their work is complete and the remains of all victims have been recovered and identified," said Mr Stillhart.

 

[Meryl12]

In case you missed it earlier on this thread:

On Tuesday, 22 July 2014, the Dutch writer and poet Theodor Holman published his daily column in the Dutch newspaper Het Parool. This time he wrote an impressive poem about the immense emotional impact the shooting down of passenger flight MH117 in Ukraine and subsequent death of all passengers and crew had on him.

The poem is called Ik ben de rouwrand, de woede, de afschuw en nog zo veel meer. This translates in English as I am the black border, the anger, the disgust and so many more.


The poem has been translated into English by another poet, Asher ben Avram, and is presented on the National Day of Mourning in The Netherlands which has been declared by the Dutch government.



http://ashershersenspinsels.wordpre...-the-black-border-the-anger-and-so-many-more/


I am a freedom fighter, so you must do as I tell you.

This is a really beautiful poem. It an impressive poem depicting the immense emotional impact of this incident.

It is well worth reading.

 

[Little Jedi]

It is a beautiful poem :candle:

Poem by Dutch columnist Theodor Holman

Asher ben Avraham ‏@Benavra :

On Tuesday, 22 July 2014, the Dutch writer and poet Theodor Holman published his daily column in the Dutch newspaper Het Parool. This time he wrote an impressive poem about the immense emotional impact the shooting down of passenger flight MH117 in Ukraine and subsequent death of all passengers and crew had on him.

The poem is called Ik ben de rouwrand, de woede, de afschuw en nog zo veel meer. This translates in English as I am the black border, the anger and so many more.

This poem deserves to be read by the international public. With kind permission of the author I translated this poem into English. I present his poem now on the National Day of Mourning in The Netherlands which has been declared by the Dutch government.

================

http://ashershersenspinsels.wordpre...-the-black-border-the-anger-and-so-many-more/


I am the black border, the anger and so many more



I am the peasant who saw bodies falling out of the sky.

And I, I got two corpses on my roof.

I am the body that fell down in sunflowers.

And I am a rebel, what do you mean I made a mistake?

I am a missile, I wish I knew how to be ashamed.

I am a soldier, a friend of him over there, we are not to blame.

I am their enemy, but I know nothing.

I am president, I express sympathy.

I am president as well and I express sympathy too.

I am a diplomat, you can phone the president now.

I have come to collect the dead. Why can’t I?

I am Death. I think I’ll carry on.

I want to bring home the dead. Why can’t I?

I am an officer – count all my stripes – and I tell you: stop!

I am the train, I’ll wait a while.

I am the engine driver, I never carried freight bizarre as this.

I am a sunflower and I rest broken.

I am the landscape and they have hurt me.

I am the airplane or a dead bird, whatever you want.

I am the telephone; they don’t listen here.

I am a garbage bag. What on earth was it they put in me here?

I am a little pole with a patch of white cotton.

I am a cuddly bear. I am a booklet.

I am a shoe, she is a purse and he is a T-shirt.

I am the consultation, I offer you all cooperation.

I am prime minister, where are my velvet gloves?

I am the lie, I am doing well today, again.

I am pathologist, I would like to get in.

I am a freedom fighter, so you must do as I tell you.

I am a black box.

I am the future; where do I store the talents wasted?

I am the talent wasted, I weep the loudest of all.

I am the black border, I am sorry.

I am disgust, I feel big and strong.

I am anger, just as big and strong.

I am a teardrop – but much more than that.

I am grief – but much more than that.

I am looking for a word, words, a meaning.



:rose:

 

[drsleuth]

Just to let you know I've moved the posts re Gaza Strip down to our political section...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?122358-World-Political-News/page12

No problems Marly

 

[Dr. Know?]

Hard day for many. RIP gorgeous people who left too soon.

My heart is with the families and friends. May the children be watched over forever.

There are horrible crimes in my lifetime, this is one of them. 911 was another. Terrorist or not, the crime is unforgiving. jmo

 

[danzn16]

I can't find the post that had the link on the speculated missile type with pictures of the holes in the planes hull. That was a good explanation of the type of missile and how the missile didn't hit the plane but how it exploded hundreds of feet away but the shrapnel hit it. Have they released any information about what this would have been like for the passengers? Would they have been aware what was happening? And what happened next? Did the plane come done as a relatively intact unit or in many pieces?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BJsleuth]

I can't find the post that had the link on the speculated missile type with pictures of the holes in the planes hull. That was a good explanation of the type of missile and how the missile didn't hit the plane but how it exploded hundreds of feet away but the shrapnel hit it. Have they released any information about what this would have been like for the passengers? Would they have been aware what was happening? And what happened next? Did the plane come done as a relatively intact unit or in many pieces?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can't help with the rest of your questions, but experts said victims would have been unaware and didn't suffer.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2014/07/23/mh17-victims-didnt-suffer-expert/

 

[geevee]

*Please note the date !*


Escalating Ukraine conflict could impact Chernobyl’s radiation shield

*April 26th 2014*

An escalating conflict between Ukraine and Russia could impact the construction of Chernobyl’s radiation shield...

Work on the containment shield was halted earlier this month. But the new containment shield is becoming increasingly crucial as the old sarcophagus, which was hastily put in place after the nuclear accident in 1986, is deteriorating rapidly. Just last winter parts of the concrete coating on the old shield collapsed.

So the containment new shield is essential to keep the region safe from further radiation leaks.

“What can never be forgotten is that the destruction caused by the deadly explosion at Chernobyl was triggered by the release of just 3% of the radioactive material in the plant; the remaining 97% of this enormous ‘ticking timebomb’ of highly unstable nuclear material is still inside the crumbling Chernobyl complex,”

European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) describe the current timeline, with a deadline in 2015, as “ambitious.”

* And if the current conflict in Ukraine worsens, the new containment shield could be further delayed.*

http://green-blog.org/archives/news/energy/escalating-ukraine--could-impact-chernobyls-radiation-shield

I have to say I find it rather surprising that Russia has had almost 30 years to construct a better containment system for Chernobyl but it only becomes a crisis when Ukraine is trying to defend its border from pro-Russian militants.

 

[MsFacetious]

RT reporter finally quits over MH17 coverage:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...ra-firth-russia-today-anchor-resigns.cnn.html

 

[highflyer]

What about the telephone recording of the Pro Russian leader being briefed on the downing of the plane?

Seems pretty straight forward.