Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[SilkySifaka]

The fighting may not be all bad (well, most fighting is not good, but ... ) - it sounds as though Ukraine troops are trying to seal off the road between Donetsk and the Russian border which, in essence, should protect the investigators from activity coming by land from that direction.



http://globalnews.ca/news/1476374/p...e-cancelled-over-reports-of-donetsk-fighting/

At this point I want Ukraine to over run the rebels, its the only way we will get in and if it means we give them arms and equipment so be it. I don't like to advocate for war but this is war and there are innocents who need to be taken care of in the middle of a field.

 

[2rose]

The sad truth is that the Ukrainians are really too preoccupied
with their own problems to really care about the victims of MH17
... or even pay any respect to the deceased foreigners

Dutch journalist Olaf Koens wrote about his experience
reporting on MH17, including his interaction with the rebels.

At a Ukranian checkpoint the Dutch journalist said ...
"Over 190 of my co-patriots died in that crash,
you might just have the decency to wave me through".

The Ukranian army soldier replied ... "I don't give a F***".

The rebels weren't any better. At a rebel stronghold, a rebel said ...

"You Dutch? You want to know what happened to the plane?
I tell you. It fell out of the sky. Just like that. S*** happens."

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2...17-plane-crash-rebels.cnn.html?iref=allsearch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7sJ5d7rXIA

 

[ZaZara]

The sad truth is that the Ukrainians are really too preoccupied
with their own problems to really care about the victims of MH17
... or even pay any respect to the deceased foreigners


http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2...17-plane-crash-rebels.cnn.html?iref=allsearch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7sJ5d7rXIA

SBM


I recently posted this:

The Ukrainian armed forces try to recapture the area where MH17 has crashed.
Kiev hopes that the location will become accessible to the international investigators of the crash.

I don not know where you get your information that Ukraine does not care, does not respect or is too preoccupied.
Ukraine has signed an agreement with The Netherlands and is fully cooperating, to the extent that this is possible in a war zone.

Olaf Koens @obk described his journey to the location of the crash almost 10 days ago.

 

[skibaboo]

Can you share the source that told you the lettering is coming off ?

Do you mean this logo that I have marked with a black arrow ?
It's hard to see because of the camera angle ...
just like it is hard to see the 2nd door underneath the last A in the Malaysia logo.

View attachment 55705

*Pops out of lurkedom*

9M-MRC (logo next to front door circled)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/9M-MRC.jpg

9M-MRD (MH17, no logo next to front door)

 

[2rose]

Olaf Koens @obk described his journey to the location of the crash almost 10 days ago.

If you referenced an article from social media (like Twitter
or Facebook) ... I don't use that stuff, so I wouldn't have read it.

I saw Olaf interviewed on CNN TV just yesterday!
The article itself is dated 24 July 2014, so it just appeared on the
CNN website. I thought his direct quotes were worth sharing,
as they are quite pointed & give a better description than
any one-liner would, of the circumstances he encountered.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @CBSNews - 1h

Investigators kept from #MH17 site due to fighting; human remains, plane debris unsecured - http://t.co/7YEi1UNJ6s
http://t.co/rggNAalL7e

http://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/493394181155352578

 

[2rose]

*Pops out of lurkedom*

Ok thanks for clarifying the logo.

However, I guess it really means we don't have enough info
about when the plane changed it's appearance because
here is a photo of what 9M-MRD looked like at one time ...

photo source: http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/07/breaking-malaysian-passenger-jet-crashes-in-ukraine/

<modsnip>

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @HuffPostUK - 3h

Russia hosting the 2018 World Cup after #mh17? Unthinkable, says Nick Clegg.. (@HuffPoUK)
http://t.co/klZWckAu65

http://t.co/k3LrPiY6q2

http://twitter.com/HuffPostUK/status/493394852231380992

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @TelegraphNews - 12m

Fierce fighting in Ukraine prevents Dutch forces reaching #MH17 crash site
http://t.co/euQGnQpyq2 by @rolandoliphant

http://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/493398009297002496

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @KvanOosterom (of the @UN) - 1h
Useful overview #MH17 recovery, investigation, accountability in transcript @JulieBishopMP
http://t.co/5k1DNyi8Ct
http://t.co/iP45xEVjhM

http://twitter.com/KvanOosterom/status/493400512600223744

 

[SouthAussie]

Analysis: ABC correspondent Stephen McDonell in eastern Ukraine

On our way to the MH17 crash site we ran into a battle for control of the area around it.

Local villagers warned that there were tanks and armoured personnel carriers ahead and soon enough they were driving down the street.

Just 12 kilometres from the aircraft wreckage we watched as Ukrainian government troops took back a village from Russian-speaking rebels.

We watched people there and we can hear the machine guns and artillery in the distance and they've pulled together a few belongings and they're trying to get out of the region, trying to hail taxis or any cars travelling out towards Donetsk.

There's a major offensive on at the moment from the Kiev government troops and it looks like they're trying to actually, bit by bit, retake this entire area from the rebels and that crash site has now been cut off from Donetsk. This appears to be a major offensive to cut off rebel supply lines.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-27/unarmed-australian-police-to-join-mission-to-mh17-site/5627404

 

[geevee]

Pushing locals aside, Russians take top rebel posts in east Ukraine


KIEV/DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - As Ukrainian troops gained ground in eastern Ukraine in early July, separatist leader Aleksander Borodai, a Russian national, left for Moscow for political consultations.

After what he described as successful talks with unnamed people there, he returned to the rebel stronghold of Donetsk to introduce a new senior figure in his self-proclaimed republic, a compatriot seasoned in the pro-Russian separatist movement in Moldova and a war between Russia and Georgia.

Vladimir Antyufeyev was named "deputy prime minister" by Borodai on July 10, one of several native Russians to have taken charge of the separatist rebellion in Ukraine's eastern regions.

http://news.yahoo.com/pushing-locals-aside-russians-top-rebel-posts-east-110455468.html

 

[ZaZara]

PRESS CONFERENCE DUTCH MP RUTTE
17.30 hrs local time



Dutch Governemnt has decided NOT TO EXPAND THE MILITARY MISSION due to the lack of safety in the area
and the possibility that a military mission may lead to INVOLVEMENT in the Ukraine crisis and ESCALATION of this crisis.
With extremely well-armed separatists in the area and Russia nearby, GEOPOLITICAL RISKS are simply too high.

The first aim of the Dutch continues to be to bring all the victims home.
The succes in reaching this aim depends on prevention of escalation.
The Dutch will contine to collaborate with Australia and Malaysia.
They will expand the number of their policemen in the area step by step.
Australia has 50 policeman ready and another 100 waiting.
Malaysia will take part in the rescue mission with 60 policemen.

Dutch FM Timmermans and Australian FM Bishop will travel once again to Ukraine to negotiate a new agreement for this approach.
This agreement is NOT needed for the work of those who are already in the area. They can get started as soon as the safety in area allows this.

Leader of the mission will be Pieter-Jaap Aalbertsberg from The Netherland, together witg Angus Houston from Australia.
The rescue mission will end 3 weeks from now.

Main aim: BRING ALL VICTIMS HOME


==============

all mistakes mine, summary based on the notes I took during the speech

 

[SilkySifaka]

PRESS CONFERENCE DUTCH MP RUTTE
17.30 hrs local time



Dutch Governemnt has decided NOT TO EXPAND THE MILITARY MISSION due to the lack of safety in the area
and the possibility that a military mission may lead to INVOLVEMENT in the Ukraine crisis and ESCALATION of this crisis.
With extremely well-armed separatists in the area and Russia nearby, GEOPOLITICAL RISKS are simply too high.

The first aim of the Dutch continues to be to bring all the victims home.
The succes in reaching this aim depends on prevention of escalation.
The Dutch will contine to collaborate with Australia and Malaysia.
They will expand the number of their policemen in the area step by step.
Australia has 50 policeman ready and another 100 waiting.
Malaysia will take part in the rescue mission with 60 policemen.

Dutch FM Timmermans and Australian FM Bishop will travel once again to Ukraine to negotiate a new agreement for this approach.
This agreement is NOT needed for the work of those who are already in the area. They can get started as soon as the safety in area allows this.

Leader of the mission will be Pieter-Jaap Aalbertsberg from The Netherland, together witg Angus Houston from Australia.
The rescue mission will end 3 weeks from now.

Main aim: BRING ALL VICTIMS HOME


==============

all mistakes mine, summary based on the notes I took during the speech

Thanks. They are going to be leaving some bodies there if it ends in three weeks. Let alone no crash investigation. Sighs

 

[ZaZara]

If you referenced an article from social media (like Twitter
or Facebook) ... I don't use that stuff, so I wouldn't have read it.

I saw Olaf interviewed on CNN TV just yesterday!
The article itself is dated 24 July 2014, so it just appeared on the
CNN website. I thought his direct quotes were worth sharing,
as they are quite pointed & give a better description than
any one-liner would, of the circumstances he encountered.

I have been translating messages from Olaf Koens on this forum from July 17 on.
(July 17 was the day of the crash.)
I'm really sorry to read your opinion about twitter.
IMHO the tweets of Olaf Koens ar particularly good. After all, he's a poet too and it shows.
He once used the f-word in an English tweet and this earned him a modsnip at WS ;-)

Anyway, he is in Kiev now and on his way home to a well-deserved hoth bath and a good night's sleep in a real bed.

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks. They are going to be leaving some bodies there if it ends in three weeks. Let alone no crash investigation. Sighs

I honestly don't know. Three weeks in politics is a very long time and who knows what will happen.
The good thing is that they decided not to become involved in the conflict. That is wisdom.
The crash is already being investigated in many ways, with satellite and pictures that some journalists took. Jeroen Akkermans is an example.

IMHO this is not over yet and will not be for a long time, but sofar, we are not being drawn into WW III.




Timothy Garton Ash:
"The battle is for the narrative, on tv on the internet, in the hearts and minds of the people"
http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/679749-poetindoctrine-gevaarlijk-voor-de-hele-wereldorde.html

 

[kimi_SFC]

MH17: Dutch and Australian experts forced to delay mission due to fighting | World | The Guardian

Netherlands-led group of 49 investigators that will attempt to recover bodies and examine site in eastern Ukraine delayed
By Paul Farrell in Canberra, and agencies

Sunday 27 July 2014 06.43 EDT

International experts postponed their plans on Sunday to go to the site where a Malaysian airliner crashed because of fighting between pro-Russian rebels and Ukrainian troops in the area.

(snip)

Alexander Hug, deputy head for the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe's monitoring mission in Ukraine, told reporters: "We heard indications there's fighting going on." Flanked by Dutch and Australian experts, he added: "The situation on the ground appears to be unsafe ... We therefore decided to deploy tomorrow morning. Fighting in the area will most likely affect crash site."

(snip)

The Australian PM, Tony Abbott, had earlier announced Dutch and Australian investigators would get greater access to the site of the MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine under the terms of a new deal. The unarmed Dutch-led group would have 49 personnel on site on Sunday, 11 of which would be Australian, Abbott said.

(snip)

Abbott said: "The Australian federal police will be deployed to the site as part of an unarmed, Dutch-led international humanitarian mission. Our objective is principally to recover the bodies. That is what the Australian people expect of us, that is what grieving families around the world deserve. Our intention, under the auspices of local people, is to take over the site to ensure that the recovery of remains can go ahead as swiftly and effectively as possible."

(snip)


Abbott said the objective of the mission was "to get in, to get cracking, to get out", and stressed it was a humanitarian, police-led operation. Some Australian defence personnel have also been sent to Europe to back up the police, but would not be sent to the site.

Abbot said: "This is a risky mission … but all the professional advice that I have is that the safest way to conduct it is unarmed, as part of a police-led humanitarian mission. What needs to happen on the site is plainly that a professional team needs to be deployed to recover remains, assisting where possible with investigation and as far as possible to remove wreckage." There are 170 Australian police officers standing by in Ukraine, with 20 more in the Netherlands.

The Australian federal police commissioner, Tony Negus, said the mission would allow Dutch and Australian forces to undertake forensic tests at the site. "The first priority is to locate the remains of any victims still on the site. We will also conduct a forensic examination of the site, and as you well know and as has been well publicised, the site has been contaminated and raked over many times – so we are realistic about what the forensic utility of actually doing that would be," he said.

Australian and Dutch officials have been negotiating for days to allow officers from both countries to gain access to the site of the crash in Ukraine.

Embedded video & MuchMore@Link


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/27/mh17-crash-site-access-ukraine-investigators

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @maxseddon - 2h

Just when it looked like the #MH17 crash site would finally be secured, this happened: http://t.co/YrBWfbYds9
https://t.co/JlTNIz9JmF

ETA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4In-hSJmY&sns=em

http://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/493440711053045760

 

[ZaZara]

Dutch reporter Olaf Koens has left the area


Olaf Koens &#8207;@obk 52 min.

Geen grote militaire missie naar de rampplek. Een zeer wijs besluit, als je het mij vraagt.

Translation:


No large military mission to the crash site. A very wise decision, if you ask me.


Dutch PM Mark Rutte has tweeted:

Minister-president &#8207;@MinPres 1 u

'Hoe minder missie reden geeft tot escalatie, hoe groter kans succes bij repatriëring slachtoffers. Daarom handhaving huidige aanpak'

Translation:


'The less our mission gives cause to escalation, the greater our chance of success whit repatriation victims. Therefore, we maintain current approach'

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @BBCWillVernon - 39m

#Ukraine govt spokesman Vladislav Seleznyov to BBC: #MH17 crash site is still under control of separatists. Fighting in the area continues.

http://twitter.com/BBCWillVernon/status/493447568513576961