Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[Trident]

How is that possible? The train left at 7, the black boxes weren't handed over to Malaysia until 11. What is going on there?

Probably a lot more than we know, or some will accept.

 

[BJsleuth]

There is this statement that the train's departure was delayed ... :dunno:

"The train carrying both the bodies of the victims and the “black box” flight recorders has arrived in the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.
The departure was delayed by last-minute wrangling over the handover of the black boxes, which had originally been scheduled for 9.00pm local time last night (7.00pm UK time)."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...fter-delay-due-to-black-box-negotiations.html

Thanks SouthAussie. I don't remember it was delayed that long!

 

[ZaZara]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/w...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Andrew Higgins, NYT:

Pushed by a diesel locomotive, five gray refrigerated wagons and a red passenger car crawled into the grounds of a decrepit Soviet-era tank factory shortly after noon, completing the first and most difficult stage of a long journey home for victims of the crash.

Ukrainian workers had to clear the track of mud and weeds to allow the train to pass along a long-disused stretch of rail leading to the Malyshev Factory, built to manufacture the Soviet T-34 tank and other military equipment.

The work on the tracks, however, did not prevent the train from stalling just a few yards from its final destination. Workers threw sand on the tracks to give the locomotive more traction.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks SouthAussie. I don't remember it was delayed that long!

It sounds as though this may answer your question BJsleuth .....

"The train left at its planned 7pm departure time from Torez, near the crash scene, but was delayed for hours at regional centre Donetsk amid rebel bickering on the handing over of the black box flight data recorders to Malaysian officials.

The train finally left Donetsk at about 6.30am for what was estimated to be a journey of three to four hours. However, there were delays - first, with mechanical problems; and second, at a rebel checkpoint from the railway, Malaysian victim identity specialists said."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bo...ity-kharkiv-20140722-zvtuh.html#ixzz38CRMUkcl

 

[SouthAussie]

Photo: Paul McGeough

An official threatens to evict any of the foreign recovery teams if they bring journalists to the siding at which the train is to be unloaded.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bo...ity-kharkiv-20140722-zvtuh.html#ixzz38CSCNiIh

 

[zwiebel]

When I first saw the train track coming up in pictures, I was going to say it looked very overgrown and neglected. Thank heavens the old factory was there though - if transporting the bodies had needed to be done by road, I don't think it would have happened.

 

[zwiebel]

It sounds as though this may answer your question BJsleuth .....

"The train left at its planned 7pm departure time from Torez, near the crash scene, but was delayed for hours at regional centre Donetsk amid rebel bickering on the handing over of the black box flight data recorders to Malaysian officials.

The train finally left Donetsk at about 6.30am for what was estimated to be a journey of three to four hours. However, there were delays - first, with mechanical problems; and second, at a rebel checkpoint from the railway, Malaysian victim identity specialists said."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bo...ity-kharkiv-20140722-zvtuh.html#ixzz38CRMUkcl

I was on the thread waiting. The delay was unreal and surreal. I posted a pic of the exhausted journalists falling asleep in the hotel, waiting for officials to finish their dinners and drinks before the blackbox handover.

 

[zwiebel]

Pres Putin says he's standing by the rebels and has also accused the West of giving him an ultimatum 'to destroy' the part of Ukraine that's closest to Russia, or face sanctions.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698

Not at the link, but heard on BBC news, Dutch investigators say parts of the plane wreckage have been chopped in half, and men have even been seen taking blowtorches to it. They added that they think the cutting may have been done to remove bodies.

I'm wondering about this. In plane crashes anywhere, the priorityis always to retrieve possible survivors and the deceased, and I'm guessing that would often involve having to cut the wreckage?

Having said that, no-one in their right mind can say the crash scene was treated professionally or even respectfully by the Russian/Ukrainian rebels.

 

[zwiebel]

Someone was taking their cherished record collection back to Malaysia, it looks like.

@PaulSonne Nearly five days later still no cordon around any of the crash site. Anyone can go anywhere. Fairly shocking. #MH17 pic.twitter.com/pPcfYHbGgK

https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulSonne

 

[SouthAussie]

Fergal Keane (BBC) is still at the crash site ... the villagers have today held a memorial service there.


Fergal Keane @fergalkeane47 • 25m
#MH17 @ #Grabova 3/3 after others left a younger woman placed flowers, knelt and prayed.

Fergal Keane @fergalkeane47 • 27m
#MH17 @ #Grabova 2/3 mostly old women. They wept speaking of their sorrow for the victims families.

Fergal Keane @fergalkeane47 • 28m
#MH17 at #Grabova 1/3 local priest Fr Oleg led memorial service near site with villagers.

https://twitter.com/fergalkeane47

 

[BunnyHop]

I am Ukrainian. Eastern, Carpathian Mountains- my ancestors.
I do not trust MSM. So much propaganda.

 

[zwiebel]

They're ready. They're going to bring our people home.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Planesonearth/tweets

 

[zwiebel]

See what some clever person has done here? They've matched the photo of the part of wreckage that seems to have clear evidence of a missile hit, to the part of the plane it came from. Thank you to all the reporters who got in and took those photos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Planesonearth/status/491556094373019648/photo/1

 

[Isabelle]

They're ready. They're going to bring our people home.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Planesonearth/tweets

I see comment on thart twitter that missile debris has been found by journalists.

CNN reporting that classified info shows from where the missile WS launched, the town of Shizne (sp?).

ETA: Zwiebel, I see you are already on it.

 

[Trident]

Pres Putin says he's standing by the rebels and has also accused the West of giving him an ultimatum 'to destroy' the part of Ukraine that's closest to Russia, or face sanctions.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698

Not at the link, but heard on BBC news, Dutch investigators say parts of the plane wreckage have been chopped in half, and men have even been seen taking blowtorches to it. They added that they think the cutting may have been done to remove bodies.

I'm wondering about this. In plane crashes anywhere, the priorityis always to retrieve possible survivors and the deceased, and I'm guessing that would often involve having to cut the wreckage?

Having said that, no-one in their right mind can say the crash scene was treated professionally or even respectfully by the Russian/Ukrainian rebels.

While I love your posts and the European insight, I have to respectfully disagee on this last point. I DO believe the men at the crash site did the best they could with what they had to work with.

Most of us have never lived in a poor, somewhat backward place. Many of us judge by what we see on TV. CSI, etc. The "real" world, which IS the "real" world for many people, is so much different from our pristine, politically correct, perfect way of doing things.

My hat is off to those who worked through the horrors, who withstodd the odors, and still managed to get the bodies on that train.

 

[Isabelle]

THs on CNN continue to say Obama should stay in Washington while this and Gaza going on. Have the not heard of Alexander Graham Bell!?

 

[kimi_SFC]

ABC News:
Malasia Airlines Wreckage 'Significantly Altered'


Wreckage from the downed Malaysia Airlines plane in Ukraine has been “significantly altered,” international monitors told ABC News, as remains of the victims arrived in territory held by the Ukrainian government.


Ukrainian Military Fights Rebels For Control of Donetsk
Dmitry Lovetsky/AP Photo
Major pieces of the front of the plane appear to have been cut away, said Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the group observing the crash site. Earlier, investigators observed someone using power tools to cut into the wreckage.

Rebels have said they had to move and alter big pieces to get at bodies and body parts. But the OSCE said what they saw was a “very invasive” altering of the wreckage.

More@Link

http://abcnews.go.com/International...ckage-significantly-altered/story?id=24659421




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[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @globeandmail - 12m

Ottawa blames Putin for downed Malaysian airliner
http://t.co/Igw4M6fS7k #MH17 #cndpoli From @stevenchase
http://t.co/EjWW4hSkMp

http://twitter.com/globeandmail/status/491584220817788928




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[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @ErinCNN - 4h

Note left at the memorial at Schiphol airport. "Our hearts go out to those who yearn for their loved ones" #mh17
http://t.co/QrCoJEFxUr

http://twitter.com/ErinCNN/status/491584214631202816

:heartluv:
:cry:
:rose:


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[SouthAussie]

The PM’s office has set up an online condolence book. All condolence messages will be combined with a condolence book that is currently in Canberra, and all Aussie victims’ families will be given a copy.

https://www.pm.gov.au/mh17-condolences