Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

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  • #841
Words fail me here. At least proper words in English. As the Red Queen said to Alice, when Alice is explaining that in her country she can move from one place to another. The Red Queen says:

"A slow sort of country!..."Now here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."


Is there nobody, no place, no where who can do anything to get those victims home?
 
  • #842
  • #843
  • #844
Experts Barred From Malaysian Airlines Crash Site As Fighting Intensifies
evu9emav.jpg

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/e...ysian-airlines-crash-site-as-fightin?s=mobile
 
  • #845
Experts Barred From Malaysian Airlines Crash Site As Fighting Intensifies
evu9emav.jpg

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/e...ysian-airlines-crash-site-as-fightin?s=mobile

Dutch FM Timmermans does not blame Ukraine ...
http://nos.nl/artikel/680381-staakthetvuren-bij-rampplek.html

Translation:


Ukraine has promised that a ceasefire remains in force in an area of 20 km around the place where the MH17 has crashed. Dutch FM Timmermans has said this after conferring with Ukrainian President Porosjenko in Kiev.

This area has a cross section of 40 kilometers. Russia wanted a ceasefire for the entire area, but Ukraine is concerned that a status quo ensues, in which pro-Russian separatists get their say. "I cannot blame Ukraine for wanting to prevent that," Timmermans said.

Timmermans and Porosjenko spoke about about safe routes for the investigators who need to get to the crash site. They need to travel from Donetsk right through a war zone. It was agreed that a Dutch liaison officer will be deployed with the Ukrainian armed forces, who will be informed daily about locations where the fights go on.

Timmermans is disappointed that the investigators could not yet reach the area yesterday nor today, because it safety was not guaranteed.

===

BBM

Australian FM Bishop:
"We don't want to be here for a moment more than we have to be."


http://nos.nl/l/680244
 
  • #846
Every day passes, and every day finds this travesty more and more egregious.

Perhaps Alice was right, this is a chessboard about politics, and the passengers don't figure on to the board.
 
  • #847
Every day passes, and every day finds this travesty more and more egregious.

Perhaps Alice was right, this is a chessboard about politics, and the passengers don't figure on to the board.

On EITHER side, or so it would appear.
 
  • #848
This detailed write-up with graphic images and details from 20 July 2014 takes us back to the events just after #MH17 was shot down. I'm not sure if it was posted in thread #1 - however, I followed a recent tweet about it, and am bringing it to this thread...

With Jet Strike, War in Ukraine Is Felt Globally - NYTimes.com

(snip)

President Obama, on the phone from the Oval Office on Thursday morning, responded that Russia was arming rebels in Ukraine — citing among other things the antiaircraft weapons that the United States believed they had been sent. “This is not something we’re making up,” Mr. Obama said, according to an American official.

Then, more than halfway through the tense, hourlong call, Mr. Putin noted, almost in passing, that he had received a report of an aircraft going down in Ukraine.

Mr. Putin was vague about the details, and the conversation moved on. But in that instant, the monthslong proxy war between East and West took a devastating turn, one that would shift the ground geopolitically amid the charred wreckage and broken bodies in a Ukrainian wheat field.



(MuchMore@Link)


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/2...-ukraine-is-felt-globally.html?_r=1&referrer=


Sent from my iPhone
 
  • #849
  • #850
US satellite images release show MH-17 was shot down by Russia firing into Ukraine.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ages-us-show-russian-rocket-fire-into-ukraine

(snip)

A four-page document released by the State Department seemed to show blast marks from where rockets were launched and craters where they landed. Officials said the images, which were sourced from the US director of national intelligence, showed heavy weapons fired between 21 July and 26 July, after the 17 July downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, over eastern Ukraine.

Here are the twit pics:

unyda3u8.jpg


bytagydy.jpg


Still trying to decipher the article myself....

TY for posting this to the thread BJsleuth....
 
  • #851
This video is dated 28 July 2014:


UN Live United Nations Web TV - - Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations - Press Conference

http://webtv.un.org/watch/ambassado...nited-nations-press-conference/3701504970001/


I found the video by following this tweet & twit pic (I hope it's ok to post - if not my apologies)

Tweet from @JuliaDavisNews - 2h

ICYMI, #Russia sent #Churkin to clarify what the world misunderstood about #MH17: http://t.co/wM56Nod9YS
ady8etet.jpg

http://t.co/2eJlTCD5OH

http://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/493999129455239168

:thinking:
 
  • #852
  • #853
ONCE AGAIN, INVESTIGATORS UNABLE TO REACH LOCATION OF THE CRASH

DUTCH PM DEMANDS CEASE FIRE



http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/rutte-eist-staken-gevechten-bij-rampplek

Translation:

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte has urged the Ukrainian president Petro Porosjenko this morning to cease the hostilities around the crash site of MH17. Once again, the area today cannot be reached by Dutch police and forensic experts.

According to the Government press release, Rutte expressed his great concern over the fact that ' international experts appear to be unable to reach the crash site again today and that valuable time to salvage and bring home the victims is lost '.



BBM
 
  • #854
HEAVY SHELLING AROUND DONETSK


Various sources report heavy shelling around Donetsk:


Pierre Crom ‏@PierreCrom 17 min.

Shellings started not far from #Donetsk city center, from in to out of town



BBM


Michael Bociurkiw ‏@mikeybbq 19 min.

Very powerful explosions rocking #Donetsk at this moment. #Ukraine
 
  • #855
..



max seddon ‏@maxseddon 2 min.

That fire sounded like it was coming from within Donetsk towards the center.



BBM
 
  • #856
...



Pierre Crom @PierreCrom · 44 min

Trains in and out #Donetsk cancelled. Sources: #MH17 site abandoned, black smoke above #Torez where victims belongings stationed



Pierre Crom @PierreCrom · 7 min

Grads falling on residential area of #Donetsk, no injuries so far, buildings badly damaged, inhabitants in shock

BBM


This is not going to stop until the Ukrainian Forces have chased all the separatists from the area, and heaven knows when that will be and what will happen next.
Dutch papers are now asking if Ukranian Government is to be trusted at all .... GOOOOOD QUESTION!
and what difference will the answer make?
[spoiler alert] no difference at all.

The OSCE, the Dutch, the Australians, the Malaysians, the locals ... they will all have to deal with the situation the way it is and that is:

a war zone, with Russian troops waiting across the very near border.

If the Ukrainian Forces manage to create a corridor between Donetsk and the rest of the self styled People's Republic, the members of International Investigation will be in Donetsk that is controlled by separatists. In order to reach the location of the crash, they will have to leave Donetsk, cross the corridor controlled by Ukraine and enter the area of the crash, still controlled (if they are there) by the separatists.

Their journey was difficult enough as it was when it was through separatists' territory only.


:gaah:
 
  • #857
An honest post. Thank you.
 
  • #858
I WON'T HESIATE TO HAVE YOU ALL SHOT


The Guardina has a rare interview with Ukraine rebel chief Igor Bezler, nicknamed the Demon, and said to be the leader behind the downing of MH17

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/-sp-ukraine-rebel-igor-bezler-interview-demon

MUST READ! -> much more at link!


With a walrus moustache, a fiery temper and a reputation for brutality, Igor Bezler is the most feared of all the rebel leaders in eastern Ukraine. Nicknamed Bes, or “the Demon”, he is regarded as something of a loose cannon, even by other rebels, who speak about him in hushed tones.

If the Ukrainian security services, the SBU, are to be believed, the Demon and a group of his men were responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over the region a fortnight ago.

According to audio of a phone call allegedly made two minutes before the disaster, the Demon was told: “A bird is flying towards you.” He asked whether it is small or big, and was told that it was hard to see, as it was flying high above the clouds. In another recording, apparently made 20 minutes later, the Demon reported to his interlocutor, supposedly a Russian intelligence official, that a plane had indeed been shot down. Bezler said the recording was real but referred to a different incident: as well as MH17 the rebels have shot down 10 Ukrainian aircraft.

(...)

He is one of a number of key commanders of the rebel movement who Kiev claims are Russian agents, including the mysterious figure of Igor Girkin, nicknamed Strelkov or “the Shooter”, who is the commander in chief of the Donetsk resistance. An enthusiast of military re-enactments, Strelkov himself has admitted he was a Russian agent until last year, and took part in the Russian takeover of Crimea.

It is possible that men like Bezler and Strelkov are not directly carrying out Moscow’s orders but are proxy agents with handlers two, three or four steps removed from the Kremlin or other official Russian structures; players that can be directed from Moscow but who are also liable to go rogue at any time.

(...)

The rebels have a healthy supply of weaponry and, if Kiev is believed, are still receiving shipments from Russia. But they are no match for the sheer size of the Ukrainian army and the various volunteer regiments fighting on Kiev’s side, whatever state of disarray the government forces may be in.

Deep down, they all expect to die here. One of the Demon’s men, a jovial Muscovite, gave us a number to call so we could tell his relatives where to find his body when he is killed. None of his family knew he had come to Ukraine to fight.

“There is nowhere for us to go now, we will fight until the end, until the last drop of our blood is spilled and the last one of us is dead,” he said.

The question is how much more civilian blood will be spilled before that happens.
 
  • #859
An honest post. Thank you.

I believe most of the posters here have presented what they felt were 'honest' posts. True objectivity is impossible. Observer effects are always to be considered. We are all humans who bring all of our life experiences, education, training, to bear with our thoughts. Since most of us lack comprehension of Russian, which sources other than MSM do you use to make what you consider 'honest' posts? As opposed to dishonest? Misinformed? Subjective?

Well I don't know, Donamena, I think the reference to honesty had more to do with my heartfelt irritation at stupid questions in the Dutch press - and the Parliament joined them later.
For a moment I even wondered if Trident was perhaps a tad Britsh, they have this wonderful way of calling something an honest post when in fact they mean to tell you that you allowed yourself to be carried away a bit.
Which I greatly enjoy.

And I enjoy the thank you!

:tyou:
 
  • #860
DISASTER AREA A NO MAN'S LAND, SOME SECTIONS UKRAINE, SOME SECTIONS SEPARATISTS


Meanwhile, back at the front, things are getting even more complicated:

marijndt ‏@marijndt 50 min.

Interviewde zojuist NYT collega, net terug uit rampgebied #mh17. Niemandsland. Wrakstukken soms in gebied rebellen, anderen gebied Uk leger.
Reuters: rebellen overwegen OVSE verdere toegang tot rampplek te weigeren, omdat OVSE 'alleen belangen VS en Ukraïne dient'

Translation:

marijndt ‏@marijndt 50 min.

Interviewed NYT colleague, straight back from disaster area #mh17. No Man's Land. Wreckage sometimes in area rebels, others in area Uk army.
Reuters: rebels considering to refuse OSCE further access to crash site, because OSCE 'only serves interests US and Ukraine'


BBM
 
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