Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[kittythehare]

The one doesn't rule out the other.
Nora could have reached that spot (been taken there) after they were gone. All on the 9th.

Or, she was placed there after she had died.

That's down to when they estimated her duodenal ulcer perforated. Highly unlikely she could have moved after that, instinct is to roll into a ball, she was found in a position not generally associated with severe abdominal pain.
That leaves your second suggestion, which makes more sense if she was dead and placed in that position y someone else.
She may have known the sound of a waterfall and heard it and followed that sound... and she had been told that a visit to a waterfall would be part of this holiday... If she got there unaided.
The British autopsy expert is to testify, hopefully that brings some coherence.
so far his reported findings concur with Malaysian doctors. But he might go into more detail regarding timings etc.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Speaking outside the police headquarters in Seremban, Negri Sembilan police chief Mohammad Mat Yusop said Nora had died “two to three days ago” from internal bleeding in her intestine, possibly caused by “prolonged starvation or stress”.

She also had bruising on her legs but there was “no sign of violence, abduction or kidnapping” and “no evidence of foul play for the time being”, though tests were still ongoing.

The exact cause of death given by the police was “upper gastrointestinal bleeding due to duodenal ulcer complicated with perforation”.

I do think we need to be wary of twisting the facts to fit the story. It was a maximum of four days, but more likely two- three. It’s a bit like the no injuries on her feet and legs- there has never been a quote that said that, merely that there were no deep wounds- there were scratches and there were bruises. We also know they couldn’t get fingerprints from her body which is down to decomposition, her feet may have lost there top layers of skin and therefore only deeper lacerations would have been seen.
Nora Quoirin died of starvation after week in jungle, investigators believe | UK news | The Guardian

 

[kittythehare]

Speaking outside the police headquarters in Seremban, Negri Sembilan police chief Mohammad Mat Yusop said Nora had died “two to three days ago” from internal bleeding in her intestine, possibly caused by “prolonged starvation or stress”.

She also had bruising on her legs but there was “no sign of violence, abduction or kidnapping” and “no evidence of foul play for the time being”, though tests were still ongoing.

The exact cause of death given by the police was “upper gastrointestinal bleeding due to duodenal ulcer complicated with perforation”.

I do think we need to be wary of twisting the facts to fit the story. It was a maximum of four days, but more likely two- three. It’s a bit like the no injuries on her feet and legs- there has never been a quote that said that, merely that there were no deep wounds- there were scratches and there were bruises. We also know they couldn’t get fingerprints from her body which is down to decomposition, her feet may have lost there top layers of skin and therefore only deeper lacerations would have been seen.
Nora Quoirin died of starvation after week in jungle, investigators believe | UK news | The Guardian

That is from 2019.
They didn't have full autopsy report at that stage, they have it now and now they're stating she was 4 days dead when her body was found.

 

[Chiatos]

That is from 2019.
They didn't have full autopsy report at that stage, they have it now and now they're stating she was 4 days dead when her body was found.

Do you have a link to the source stating that according to the full autopsy report Nora died 4 days earlier?
Would that be what has been said at the hearing that Nora survived for 6 days? Or is there another source too?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Looks like two more local witnesses today. One in a suit, one in police uniform. The window is in the courtroom as well today.

Did I hear them say Cannabis? (Cana-biis). they also mentioned pesticide traces and also in english discussed whether any sand was found on Nora's body. The response was not in English though.

 

[kittythehare]

Do you have a link to the source stating that according to the full autopsy report Nora died 4 days earlier?
Would that be what has been said at the hearing that Nora survived for 6 days? Or is there another source too?

There are several links.
I posted many of them.
They are on this thread.
Most major media that covered it stated that as fact. Not that too many bothered.

 

[kittythehare]

this is new

 

[peanutJelly]

SEREMBAN, Sept 3 — A total of eight fingerprints were lifted from a window at a jungle villa where Irish-French teen Nora Anne Quoirin supposedly exited and disappeared near here last year, a former state Criminal Investigations Department chief testified at the Coroner’s Court today.

Assistant Commissioner Wan Rukman Wan Hassan said the police made the findings after dusting the window at Sora House located within The Dusun resort for fingerprints.

He added that the fingerprints were lifted on August 4, 2019, subsequent to a missing persons report lodged by the resort owner and family on the same day.


“We managed to obtain eight fingerprints from the window frame and 20 samples taken from family members, workers, former workers and workers in an adjacent resort for our comparisons.

“The results which I was informed of on August 6, 2019 on the eight samples were as followed;
four of them had inadequate features while four more were in suitable condition.

“Of the four that we compared with the 20 samples we obtained, only one matched the mother of the missing person while the remaining three were unknown,” Wak Rukman, the 11th witness in Quoirin’s inquest, told Coroner Maimoonah Aid.

When asked further what he meant by inadequate features by Quoirin’s lawyer S. Sakthyvell, Wak Rukman explained that these fingerprints could mean partial or side prints which rendered them unsuitable for analysis.

As for the three unknown fingerprints and whether Quoirin’s fingerprint could be one of them, Wak Rukman explained that it may also belong to the previous tenants before affirming that the authorities managed to obtain the girl’s fingerprint through the assistance of the International Criminal Police Organisation (Interpol).

“At that time when we lacked a sample, we did manage to obtain a fingerprint sample later from her home country through Interpol but it was her middle finger.

“But that too was incomplete and we couldn’t make our comparison.

“Even after she was found and a sample taken, there was no positive result as her prints have shrivelled due to the exposure [of her body] to the environment,” he said.



Police lifted eight fingerprints from window at jungle villa where Nora Anne Quoirin disappeared, inquest told | Malay Mail


From all the above, there is no proof of Nora's fingerprints on the window. So what exactly is the reason that the Malaysian police are so certain that Nora exited Sora house via this window ?

But there’s also no proof of her fingerprints NOT being on the window?

 

[Chiatos]

Did I hear them say Cannabis? (Cana-biis)

At what time stamp O-Dibble?

 

[peanutJelly]

If a search party had been there the previous three days-was she trying to get there as she heard people, or was she hiding nearby the whole time afraid of coming out? Whilst it could be the day she died, she could have also died the day after. She is found on day 10 and died four days before working backwards a day at a time she could have died on day 7 (which would be day 1, day 10 would be day 4). They did say she was lying as though she was asleep with her head laid on her hands, curled up. Did she lay down to wait for the search party to return and sadly they didn’t return for several more days.

I’m not convinced she would have realised they were a search party. Could it have been frightening to hear strange people shouting in the jungle?

 

[peanutJelly]

That's down to when they estimated her duodenal ulcer perforated. Highly unlikely she could have moved after that, instinct is to roll into a ball, she was found in a position not generally associated with severe abdominal pain.
That leaves your second suggestion, which makes more sense if she was dead and placed in that position y someone else.
She may have known the sound of a waterfall and heard it and followed that sound... and she had been told that a visit to a waterfall would be part of this holiday... If she got there unaided.
The British autopsy expert is to testify, hopefully that brings some coherence.
so far his reported findings concur with Malaysian doctors. But he might go into more detail regarding timings etc.

I’m really not sure about this case, as being found as though asleep sounds more like someone being placed in that position. It’s not generally a sleeping position, more one that looks like someone is sleeping peacefully IMO

 

[kittythehare]

nora quorin survived 6 days - بحث Google

 

[kittythehare]

I’m really not sure about this case, as being found as though asleep sounds more like someone being placed in that position. It’s not generally a sleeping position, more one that looks like someone is sleeping peacefully IMO

Her family will know whether or not it was a typical sleeping position for Nora, though, but this is Nora with a very serious illness, not normal Nora.
No foreign DNA found.

 

[Alyce]

But there’s also no proof of her fingerprints NOT being on the window?

yes, that is true, but with that kind of inconclusive evidence re the fingerprints, I would not expect the Malaysian police to state,categorically, that Nora definitely exited via the window.
Unless they have another reason for this certainty, which has yet to be revealed.

 

[Officer Dibble]

this is new

The second man keeps talking about a bungalow

 

[kittythehare]

The Mirror Report states area was searched on 8th, not 9th..
The area where Nora was eventually found ten days later, was about a mile-and-a-half away from the resort.

Last week a coroner heard how that area had been searched twice before, on August 7 and August 8.

More than 350 searchers, including volunteers, sniffer dogs and a shaman had joined the hunt for the schoolgirl. She was found on August 13.

Giving evidence, head of forensics, Noor Aidora Saedon, told the coroner that Nora had taken her last breath four days before she was found by hikers helping police search.

To a question raised by Sakthy Vell Saminathan, counsel for her family, she agreed that Nora had been dead four days before she was recovered.

The hearing had been told an autopsy was performed less than an hour after her body was airlifted from the stream.
Nora Quoirin 'survived 6 days before dying of starvation in jungle' inquest told

 

[kittythehare]

The second man keeps talking about a bungalow

I couldn't get it to play, it's august 15, 2019, day after she died. It was marked as NEW dated Sept 3 when I shared it!

 

[Chiatos]

The Mirror Report states area was searched on 8th, not 9th..
The area where Nora was eventually found ten days later, was about a mile-and-a-half away from the resort.

Last week a coroner heard how that area had been searched twice before, on August 7 and August 8.

More than 350 searchers, including volunteers, sniffer dogs and a shaman had joined the hunt for the schoolgirl. She was found on August 13.

Giving evidence, head of forensics, Noor Aidora Saedon, told the coroner that Nora had taken her last breath four days before she was found by hikers helping police search.

To a question raised by Sakthy Vell Saminathan, counsel for her family, she agreed that Nora had been dead four days before she was recovered.

The hearing had been told an autopsy was performed less than an hour after her body was airlifted from the stream.
Nora Quoirin 'survived 6 days before dying of starvation in jungle' inquest told

I believe that info to be incorrect.
The spot had been searched on the 7th, 8th and 9th of August. That has been reported directly by journalists present or following the hearing.
They could not have mistaken what they had heard.

 

[kittythehare]

So we have more reports stating area was searched on 8 Aug, not 9 as per BBC journo we discussed earlier.
4 days dead on 13th...

 

[Chiatos]

nora quorin survived 6 days - بحث Google

So when you refer to the "full report", you mean the full Malaysian report.
You don't mean the inclusion of the second autopsy done in Europe?