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thank you!
Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6
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Thank you so much Ruth Bullock!
kittythehare
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The mother, who is Irish, said police were more focused on search and rescue, and only started looking for fingerprints and interviewing resort staff several days later, by which time many people had passed through the property. She said that the police officer sent to take her statement also struggled to communicate effectively in English and that she had to explain herself repeatedly.
Some senior police officials who later approached her were also “quite rude and arrogant,” telling her to be calm and let police do their job, she said.
Teen's mom: Daughter, found dead in Malaysia, was abducted
Quoirin said Nora wouldn’t necessarily have cried for help because she was “highly submissive,” which could prove why there were no markings of struggle on her body. “She would just be silent and stare at the floor and close in on herself,” she said
She noted that the area where Nora was found has been repeatedly searched, and that given the steep and hilly terrain, her body was in fairly good condition, with only minor bruises and scratches. “Why does her state of body not reflect that of someone constantly moving or exposed to the harshest of elements?” she said.
Some senior police officials who later approached her were also “quite rude and arrogant,” telling her to be calm and let police do their job, she said.
Teen's mom: Daughter, found dead in Malaysia, was abducted
Quoirin said Nora wouldn’t necessarily have cried for help because she was “highly submissive,” which could prove why there were no markings of struggle on her body. “She would just be silent and stare at the floor and close in on herself,” she said
She noted that the area where Nora was found has been repeatedly searched, and that given the steep and hilly terrain, her body was in fairly good condition, with only minor bruises and scratches. “Why does her state of body not reflect that of someone constantly moving or exposed to the harshest of elements?” she said.
kittythehare
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Sebastien Quoirin said rescuers searched the area where Nora was eventually discovered four times, including once with a sniffer dogs, but failed to spot her.
He challenged suggestions that Nora was not found sooner because she had been constantly on the move. His daughter, who had learning disabilities and physical disabilities, did not have the stamina to be walking for seven days, he said. “Nora would not know what to eat, she would have been seriously dehydrated I think after a couple of days … she would have been extremely weak.”
He said that when he identified Nora’s body, he noticed that her feet were dirty but not injured in the way that would be expected had she walked barefoot through the jungle for days.
Nora Quoirin inquest: father says teenager had no survival instinct
He challenged suggestions that Nora was not found sooner because she had been constantly on the move. His daughter, who had learning disabilities and physical disabilities, did not have the stamina to be walking for seven days, he said. “Nora would not know what to eat, she would have been seriously dehydrated I think after a couple of days … she would have been extremely weak.”
He said that when he identified Nora’s body, he noticed that her feet were dirty but not injured in the way that would be expected had she walked barefoot through the jungle for days.
Nora Quoirin inquest: father says teenager had no survival instinct
kittythehare
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How come her feet were not marked?
How did she get as far as she did?
Is it possible she really had been abducted?
After today's reports, I'm no longer convinced she made it on her own unless everybody is lying.
They have no reason to lie.
This is just a condensed AP Dad: Teen, found dead in Malaysia, couldn't survive jungle
How did she get as far as she did?
Is it possible she really had been abducted?
After today's reports, I'm no longer convinced she made it on her own unless everybody is lying.
They have no reason to lie.
This is just a condensed AP Dad: Teen, found dead in Malaysia, couldn't survive jungle
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Q Just to obtain a few more details on a few said that the first thing that struck me is that you said nora would've been physically and cognitively incapable of getting out of that window by yourself can you please give us a little bit more information about what precisely do you mean by that
A well first of all Nora had very little physical strength to lift heavy things or push pull things work a bit probably both hands and push quite hard to open that window, she might have managed that if she's really been trying, but then it was already at my waist height so she would've had to then climb nora wasnt very tall, they are quite a height for her she would have needed to use her hands and legs to coordinate climbing out which if she managed I believed she would've hurt herself trying to do that but even at that I just can't see, even in daylight even knowing the window and even with me I can't I cannot see that she would open that window from a cognitive point of view. Nora wasn't very spatially aware she didn't notice things around her particularly easily it would've been impossible in the dark to even see the windows but she certainly wouldn't have been wondering around trying out different things in the apartment she she just wouldn't do that you know if she got up in the night it would've been to go to the toilet where I could've imagined her struggling with The dark if she'd been a bit stuck trying to get back of the spiral staircase in the dark and calling out for help for that. certainly not pressing on windows that had no reason to press on and i think she would've been quite nervous in the dark by herself and is just no way she would've thought oh well press on this window there is no way she would've wanted to get through the window she is very aware of her own, she knew, she had difficulties, she often even underestimated what she could do herself
Q and if she had ended up outside in the dark knowing what you know with Nora what what do you think her reaction would have been?
A. So I suppose the other thought we had the windows just, it's just impossible, it's literally impossible to even consider, but the door it is possible because when I had locked it from the inside, it could be unlocked not from the outside and I suppose I considered that if Nora had got up to go to the toilet when she knew exactly where the bathroom was but it is absolutely possible so that would be the only way that she could of got outside my my understanding would be that instantly she would very quickly have frozen, like a bit like what I was describing a situation where she was unfamiliar would be to just stop and freeze and not go any further in any difficult circumstance , as she would've been obviously aware that she was outside without shoes, it’s pitch black so it's evening or in the jungle the even your hand in front of you you can’t see and so Nora would've been absolutely petrified and I believe strongly that she would've just frozen and most likely have just sat down and waited for someone to come and help her. She didn't understand what it was to be discreet definitely didn't understand how to hide she never wondered anywhere she never crawled into things i do remember helpful the boss, helpfully, or maybe it was her father-in-law so I believe said she could be in the tunnel
In the playground. I said she literally just would have stood there, she never hid.
Q. I interrupted you you were in the process of telling us how that you attempted to alert the police and the authorities to the fact that nora is missing
A well we repeatedly asked that that take place and that that was necessary and Haneem went herself to the police station I think she understood that that translation was going to be an issue for us people in the local police station, they wouldn't perhaps have enough of a command of English for us, of she kindly, I remember trying to get a message That the window is open please tell them that it is an abduction here, that we find an open window we believe in that there is an abduction, here you know this is really serious Do you that it was going to be difficult to explain but I was really insisting on that I don't think she was able to get that across initially but she was able to explain that someone needed to come and visit the property they initially compiled an initial basic report of what she given them she took our passports to quite some time most of the morning I think in the meantime resort employees search the property extensively Sebastian was searching everywhere other guests kindly volunteered to help one another couple that were staying in the resort they were an English couple and they very kindly thought of to the other children they undertook some of the search themsleves walking through the resort around the resort and then they also The lady also which I did morning around I would say 11 o'clock at calling the embassies and it was a Sunday so that was not straightforward at the first embassy I was able to make any contact with the Irish Embassy, that had to go through Dublin quite quickly they got back in touch with me and connected their personal in Kuala lumpa and secured a translator and He travelled immediately to the resort to support us. And so in that in those morning and early afternoon mostly the effort consisted of police report all the personnel that we can see looking for Nora inside the resort was trying to get as much information as we could to the owners and managers of the resort to explain Noras condition and we were really pressing like to try and explain that to the Police and then in the course of the afternoon the first police officer came to the resort didn't spend very much time there a cursory glance at the area around didn't really come inside that I can recall didn't spend any significant time there and we were absolutely distraught because it was very obvious Yes at this dog was not fit for purpose the dog was really old and not really going to be able to perform any operation in any meaningful sense so we were again pressing for resource be mobilised from beyond the local police station which of course we knew had limited but we were so We were asking for a larger team and more people to come especially another dog unit would be more able to try and trace Nora scent so we were very very concerned about that . We spent a A number of time asking for support from the embassy and they were able to convey much more effectively than we were we needed support they were then able to mobilise more police The police then sent further, further members of the police came, we were interviewed we give initial statements that was a very worrying process for me because the officer that was sent to us had some English but really struggled to communicate effectively with us. I could understand her questions, but she really struggled to understand my reply and repeatedly, repeated back to me what I was saying incorrectly so it was quite labourious. I was very concerned that we didn't have someone with good enough English to fully understand what was going on for any serious detail about Nora so for example I was really trying to explain how she couldn’t physically manage the window as she kept repeating back to me oh so Nora climbed out the window did she want to go off and see butterflies you know did she want to see the jungle, did she want to use her phone. When I was trying to explain that Nora couldn't even use the phone she didn't she couldn't get out that repeat myself a great deal I explained in detail what we done the first day I explained that we've gone for a walk explained that absolutely Nora could walk but that she wouldn't be inclined to go anywhere in fact she never even went to a neighbours who we know incredibly well front door she really wouldn't have gone beyond the driveway of the sora house by herself but we were very concerned because she clearly wasn't in the vicinity and described length every detail of our journey. like you were asking me earlier the arrival at the airport all those details were captured so those statements were taken then I was out already I suppose I should've said, and I have informed my family, and our family as such and because my brother was in Singapore first he immediately came with Dominic a close friend of the families to Malaysia they immediately booked a flight and arrived in that evening before it got dark I remember Also I am really asking repeatedly is going to start a serious search you know what what will have to be on the resort and you know Nora wasn't in the resort at this point you know it's not that big and even though it's very dense she would've responded to something her dad calling what one of us calling for her so we were told them that they wouldn't do any searches that evening because it was dark and this was making us worry because I was acutely aware of all the time that Nora had no survival instinct whatsoever nora wouldn't know for instance that it was important to drink to stay alive she just wouldn't know that she wouldn't have known how to eat or do anything she wouldn't have known she probably wouldn't have even cried out for help because very very concerned that Nora apart from the fact that she's in my mind like you've been abducted has she gone tried to go anywhere by herself she physically couldn't manage the jungle with my own eyes when she slipped on a designated clear path and I was very worried given the steepness of the children that she would slip and fall very quickly seriously hurt yourself break a bone very quickly and very seriously so I was very upset at the idea that the police wouldn't search more initially that first evening and the embassy pressed for that to happen and they were successful at getting the police to commit to a small number of people continuing to search with torchlight that first evening and that was very very helpful they then started to more seriously look at the sort of house the area around it and they then also started to go beyond the resort look at other houses look at the nearby resorts expand their search basically and while we still have real difficulty communicating back-and-forth with the police at least at that point when you they were at ramping up their efforts and expanding what would be required from a search and rescue point of view
Ended 1:44
A well first of all Nora had very little physical strength to lift heavy things or push pull things work a bit probably both hands and push quite hard to open that window, she might have managed that if she's really been trying, but then it was already at my waist height so she would've had to then climb nora wasnt very tall, they are quite a height for her she would have needed to use her hands and legs to coordinate climbing out which if she managed I believed she would've hurt herself trying to do that but even at that I just can't see, even in daylight even knowing the window and even with me I can't I cannot see that she would open that window from a cognitive point of view. Nora wasn't very spatially aware she didn't notice things around her particularly easily it would've been impossible in the dark to even see the windows but she certainly wouldn't have been wondering around trying out different things in the apartment she she just wouldn't do that you know if she got up in the night it would've been to go to the toilet where I could've imagined her struggling with The dark if she'd been a bit stuck trying to get back of the spiral staircase in the dark and calling out for help for that. certainly not pressing on windows that had no reason to press on and i think she would've been quite nervous in the dark by herself and is just no way she would've thought oh well press on this window there is no way she would've wanted to get through the window she is very aware of her own, she knew, she had difficulties, she often even underestimated what she could do herself
Q and if she had ended up outside in the dark knowing what you know with Nora what what do you think her reaction would have been?
A. So I suppose the other thought we had the windows just, it's just impossible, it's literally impossible to even consider, but the door it is possible because when I had locked it from the inside, it could be unlocked not from the outside and I suppose I considered that if Nora had got up to go to the toilet when she knew exactly where the bathroom was but it is absolutely possible so that would be the only way that she could of got outside my my understanding would be that instantly she would very quickly have frozen, like a bit like what I was describing a situation where she was unfamiliar would be to just stop and freeze and not go any further in any difficult circumstance , as she would've been obviously aware that she was outside without shoes, it’s pitch black so it's evening or in the jungle the even your hand in front of you you can’t see and so Nora would've been absolutely petrified and I believe strongly that she would've just frozen and most likely have just sat down and waited for someone to come and help her. She didn't understand what it was to be discreet definitely didn't understand how to hide she never wondered anywhere she never crawled into things i do remember helpful the boss, helpfully, or maybe it was her father-in-law so I believe said she could be in the tunnel
In the playground. I said she literally just would have stood there, she never hid.
Q. I interrupted you you were in the process of telling us how that you attempted to alert the police and the authorities to the fact that nora is missing
A well we repeatedly asked that that take place and that that was necessary and Haneem went herself to the police station I think she understood that that translation was going to be an issue for us people in the local police station, they wouldn't perhaps have enough of a command of English for us, of she kindly, I remember trying to get a message That the window is open please tell them that it is an abduction here, that we find an open window we believe in that there is an abduction, here you know this is really serious Do you that it was going to be difficult to explain but I was really insisting on that I don't think she was able to get that across initially but she was able to explain that someone needed to come and visit the property they initially compiled an initial basic report of what she given them she took our passports to quite some time most of the morning I think in the meantime resort employees search the property extensively Sebastian was searching everywhere other guests kindly volunteered to help one another couple that were staying in the resort they were an English couple and they very kindly thought of to the other children they undertook some of the search themsleves walking through the resort around the resort and then they also The lady also which I did morning around I would say 11 o'clock at calling the embassies and it was a Sunday so that was not straightforward at the first embassy I was able to make any contact with the Irish Embassy, that had to go through Dublin quite quickly they got back in touch with me and connected their personal in Kuala lumpa and secured a translator and He travelled immediately to the resort to support us. And so in that in those morning and early afternoon mostly the effort consisted of police report all the personnel that we can see looking for Nora inside the resort was trying to get as much information as we could to the owners and managers of the resort to explain Noras condition and we were really pressing like to try and explain that to the Police and then in the course of the afternoon the first police officer came to the resort didn't spend very much time there a cursory glance at the area around didn't really come inside that I can recall didn't spend any significant time there and we were absolutely distraught because it was very obvious Yes at this dog was not fit for purpose the dog was really old and not really going to be able to perform any operation in any meaningful sense so we were again pressing for resource be mobilised from beyond the local police station which of course we knew had limited but we were so We were asking for a larger team and more people to come especially another dog unit would be more able to try and trace Nora scent so we were very very concerned about that . We spent a A number of time asking for support from the embassy and they were able to convey much more effectively than we were we needed support they were then able to mobilise more police The police then sent further, further members of the police came, we were interviewed we give initial statements that was a very worrying process for me because the officer that was sent to us had some English but really struggled to communicate effectively with us. I could understand her questions, but she really struggled to understand my reply and repeatedly, repeated back to me what I was saying incorrectly so it was quite labourious. I was very concerned that we didn't have someone with good enough English to fully understand what was going on for any serious detail about Nora so for example I was really trying to explain how she couldn’t physically manage the window as she kept repeating back to me oh so Nora climbed out the window did she want to go off and see butterflies you know did she want to see the jungle, did she want to use her phone. When I was trying to explain that Nora couldn't even use the phone she didn't she couldn't get out that repeat myself a great deal I explained in detail what we done the first day I explained that we've gone for a walk explained that absolutely Nora could walk but that she wouldn't be inclined to go anywhere in fact she never even went to a neighbours who we know incredibly well front door she really wouldn't have gone beyond the driveway of the sora house by herself but we were very concerned because she clearly wasn't in the vicinity and described length every detail of our journey. like you were asking me earlier the arrival at the airport all those details were captured so those statements were taken then I was out already I suppose I should've said, and I have informed my family, and our family as such and because my brother was in Singapore first he immediately came with Dominic a close friend of the families to Malaysia they immediately booked a flight and arrived in that evening before it got dark I remember Also I am really asking repeatedly is going to start a serious search you know what what will have to be on the resort and you know Nora wasn't in the resort at this point you know it's not that big and even though it's very dense she would've responded to something her dad calling what one of us calling for her so we were told them that they wouldn't do any searches that evening because it was dark and this was making us worry because I was acutely aware of all the time that Nora had no survival instinct whatsoever nora wouldn't know for instance that it was important to drink to stay alive she just wouldn't know that she wouldn't have known how to eat or do anything she wouldn't have known she probably wouldn't have even cried out for help because very very concerned that Nora apart from the fact that she's in my mind like you've been abducted has she gone tried to go anywhere by herself she physically couldn't manage the jungle with my own eyes when she slipped on a designated clear path and I was very worried given the steepness of the children that she would slip and fall very quickly seriously hurt yourself break a bone very quickly and very seriously so I was very upset at the idea that the police wouldn't search more initially that first evening and the embassy pressed for that to happen and they were successful at getting the police to commit to a small number of people continuing to search with torchlight that first evening and that was very very helpful they then started to more seriously look at the sort of house the area around it and they then also started to go beyond the resort look at other houses look at the nearby resorts expand their search basically and while we still have real difficulty communicating back-and-forth with the police at least at that point when you they were at ramping up their efforts and expanding what would be required from a search and rescue point of view
Ended 1:44
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I’m going to throw it out there reading some snippets from the fathers testimony on here and still texting the mothers- but read it all carefully, or listen to YouTube. I don’t blame either parents, but their testimony is very IMO contrived and agreeable. I don’t think for a second they were involved, but genuinely, both parents heard someone in their chalet on their first night ( mum knowing windows hadn’t been closed properly) and neither gets up? IMO and it’s not victim bashing, they have potentially created this story to assist their case of an abduction that wasn’t investigated properly.
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Are we still had real difficulty communicating back-and-forth with the police at least at that point when you they were wrapping up their efforts and expanding what would be required from a search and rescue point of you
Q. so that was the police activity in relation to the search and rescue effort was there any effort in terms of potential criminal investigation and thinking in particular of investigations the police might of done
A no in a word no it took days for us There was one officer Maggie who was interested in taking that line of enquiry seriously and did consider that on our behalf she asked us most sensible questions about the window and so one she was also prepared to look at other locations that we suggested needed to be explored I'll come back to weigh in just a moment if you don't mind but for instance on the following day on Monday therefore senior police officers came to speak to us that evening and day I was I was I was so deeply worried because they were quite I feel quite rude arrogant with us they didn't want to particularly communicate with us they didn't really ask us any questions I asked a lot of questions about what they were doing and whether they were considering criminal things were great for example going to talk to other people in the resort where are they going to mobilise more canine units were they going to investigate local criminal activity et cetera et cetera were they going to send a forensics team to look at the property why weren’t the proper searches done We were thinking of and they just said to me you know stay calm let us do our job more or less will do we know what to do just be quiet so that was really deeply upsetting because I was thinking to myself if that's what we're dealing with Nora I was very upset by thoss particular individuals I must say maggie was the exception To that people that we had to liaise with through the Sunday on the Monday we all calls from our family and friends through a family connection s healer connection had in a way that It's very common in Malaysia or are they strongly suggested abduction and they strongly suggested a number of locations to explore we communicated that to Maggie she supported that unfortunately none of those roots were as you know were successful but she did explore that, at no point was it seriously considered. we made connections to people like interpole we ask them questions and we did understand that Interpol have been advised by the one embassy that we were dealing with this person and they shut the borders and I didn't believe it will be on the borders they advised us also of what to expect in a kidnapping case, but that was really the only sense that it was a criminal discussion And it wasn't until later in the week when officer Nick, that we got the sense that serious criminal enquiries were being considered it One one area particularly SIXEL of the window initially but it took until the Tuesday evening so you know three days before anyone to print anywhere else in the property and we were told that we could we had to vacate the property for them to take prints and we were we could have one or two family member state to observe which they did and they observe that the team only took prints in our bedroom and the bathroom and we couldn't believe the property and very especially the area where nora had been sleeping and we have been instructed to do so so our insistence and we had to insist quite strongly they were mobilised again and they came back the following morning on the Wednesday to complete the prints taken across the area, we were frustrated because by that point my entire family had been In the property many members of staff have been in the property had members of staff attach the window you know it would've been it will be tricky we also knew that or we could get a sense that the canine units that have been deployed we're not making progress as asked for by the deputy public prosecutor I repeatedly gave our articles of clothing to the police and told that the dogs couldn't trace Nora in the area which again reinforced our concerns because around the property anywhere that was a real concern for us and we knew well that is very very dominant resourced I must insist we were really impressed by we were in Preston lots and lots of very specialist officers have been deployed to look extensively for Nora and we were really happy about that are very reassured that helicopter drones specialist resources were used for that especially touched by how many local people were searching, local healers and to see that people are really doing their absolute best and you know to this day we remain so grateful to everyone who made their best to grateful to everyone who he tried their best but we could see that so little resource was being committed to a criminal angle and we were very worried about that and there are still elements of that that worries me greatly and I wondered for example why it took several days before staff members were properly and properly investigated by the police and again I still have questions about how seriously that was done I'm not i'm sure I am not best placed to comment on everything that the police were we're not doing I can only give you my own understanding which was that the dominant a commitment was in search and rescue and it took a long time to mobilise explore any possible criminal route and I believe credible evidence was lost in that if it existed if it ever existed would have been lost in that time.
Ended 1: 54
Q. so that was the police activity in relation to the search and rescue effort was there any effort in terms of potential criminal investigation and thinking in particular of investigations the police might of done
A no in a word no it took days for us There was one officer Maggie who was interested in taking that line of enquiry seriously and did consider that on our behalf she asked us most sensible questions about the window and so one she was also prepared to look at other locations that we suggested needed to be explored I'll come back to weigh in just a moment if you don't mind but for instance on the following day on Monday therefore senior police officers came to speak to us that evening and day I was I was I was so deeply worried because they were quite I feel quite rude arrogant with us they didn't want to particularly communicate with us they didn't really ask us any questions I asked a lot of questions about what they were doing and whether they were considering criminal things were great for example going to talk to other people in the resort where are they going to mobilise more canine units were they going to investigate local criminal activity et cetera et cetera were they going to send a forensics team to look at the property why weren’t the proper searches done We were thinking of and they just said to me you know stay calm let us do our job more or less will do we know what to do just be quiet so that was really deeply upsetting because I was thinking to myself if that's what we're dealing with Nora I was very upset by thoss particular individuals I must say maggie was the exception To that people that we had to liaise with through the Sunday on the Monday we all calls from our family and friends through a family connection s healer connection had in a way that It's very common in Malaysia or are they strongly suggested abduction and they strongly suggested a number of locations to explore we communicated that to Maggie she supported that unfortunately none of those roots were as you know were successful but she did explore that, at no point was it seriously considered. we made connections to people like interpole we ask them questions and we did understand that Interpol have been advised by the one embassy that we were dealing with this person and they shut the borders and I didn't believe it will be on the borders they advised us also of what to expect in a kidnapping case, but that was really the only sense that it was a criminal discussion And it wasn't until later in the week when officer Nick, that we got the sense that serious criminal enquiries were being considered it One one area particularly SIXEL of the window initially but it took until the Tuesday evening so you know three days before anyone to print anywhere else in the property and we were told that we could we had to vacate the property for them to take prints and we were we could have one or two family member state to observe which they did and they observe that the team only took prints in our bedroom and the bathroom and we couldn't believe the property and very especially the area where nora had been sleeping and we have been instructed to do so so our insistence and we had to insist quite strongly they were mobilised again and they came back the following morning on the Wednesday to complete the prints taken across the area, we were frustrated because by that point my entire family had been In the property many members of staff have been in the property had members of staff attach the window you know it would've been it will be tricky we also knew that or we could get a sense that the canine units that have been deployed we're not making progress as asked for by the deputy public prosecutor I repeatedly gave our articles of clothing to the police and told that the dogs couldn't trace Nora in the area which again reinforced our concerns because around the property anywhere that was a real concern for us and we knew well that is very very dominant resourced I must insist we were really impressed by we were in Preston lots and lots of very specialist officers have been deployed to look extensively for Nora and we were really happy about that are very reassured that helicopter drones specialist resources were used for that especially touched by how many local people were searching, local healers and to see that people are really doing their absolute best and you know to this day we remain so grateful to everyone who made their best to grateful to everyone who he tried their best but we could see that so little resource was being committed to a criminal angle and we were very worried about that and there are still elements of that that worries me greatly and I wondered for example why it took several days before staff members were properly and properly investigated by the police and again I still have questions about how seriously that was done I'm not i'm sure I am not best placed to comment on everything that the police were we're not doing I can only give you my own understanding which was that the dominant a commitment was in search and rescue and it took a long time to mobilise explore any possible criminal route and I believe credible evidence was lost in that if it existed if it ever existed would have been lost in that time.
Ended 1: 54
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Thanks Ruth.
I still find something a bit off kilter re the sleeping arrangements. If Nora had been wetting the bed a lot prior to the trip, to the point that the parents thought to get up early to check on that, would she have shared a bed with her 12 year old sister? And if not, if she had the single, did the other siblings share?
I absolutely do not think the family had anything to do with the tragedy but something doesnt seem quite right to me and I still wonder if it has to do with where and how they slept.
From reading your transcripts, I also wonder if it's possible Nora did mistake the door for the bathroom, and she did exactly what her mum said she would do - sat down outside in the dark and waited for help. But someone else found her before her family did.
JMO
I still find something a bit off kilter re the sleeping arrangements. If Nora had been wetting the bed a lot prior to the trip, to the point that the parents thought to get up early to check on that, would she have shared a bed with her 12 year old sister? And if not, if she had the single, did the other siblings share?
I absolutely do not think the family had anything to do with the tragedy but something doesnt seem quite right to me and I still wonder if it has to do with where and how they slept.
From reading your transcripts, I also wonder if it's possible Nora did mistake the door for the bathroom, and she did exactly what her mum said she would do - sat down outside in the dark and waited for help. But someone else found her before her family did.
JMO
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Who was the young crowd that was partying at the resort?
I thought it was a low key family friendly or couple wanting quiet times kind of place?
I thought it was a low key family friendly or couple wanting quiet times kind of place?
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Same here, I thought that was odd too.
- Joined
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JMO
Did her parents think Nora could make her way down that spiral staircase by herself in the dark? If so, she was capable of doing more than outlined above.
I would have been concerned about the entire openness of their accommodations with three children especially with Nora.
And her sister got up in the middle of the night and Nora wasn’t in her bed?
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Q who Is coming to the Dusun to support you can you just give us information who came and when did they arrive
A. so I mentioned my brother and Dominic our close friend who arrived on the Sunday. My sister arrived the next day on the Monday and the day after that my parents my sister previously mentioned and two other sisters all arrived and they stayed with us through Before they arrived at my sisters husband Matthew McAllister also arrived he flew directly from the US where he had been working he was due to be flying back to Glasgow but he come directly to Kuala Lumpur to Matthew was also with us and then later in the week I'm sorry I need to refer my notes we made notes on what was happening every day because so much is happening and I have a little journal here if you'd like me to reference it, my other sister her partner Dario arrived at morning In the week probably the Thursday those are all the family members and all those family members that stayed with us until after Nora was found.
Q In terms of you you've told us a little about you told us about what happened on the Sunday which was the first day of the search and on the second day of the search you explained you had some communication with the police at that stage the search and rescue effort was well underway
A yes I am told 170 officers were searching by then and we were told Looking already at that point within a radius of 3 km which we thought was a good radius it would've been reasonable to expect Nora to have got if she'd gone anywhere by her by herself by the Monday
Q so you are content in terms of the parameters of the search
A Yes definitely that I should've said earlier you know we are Nora we believe had she been on her own difficult it was to her limitations and you know I think we were aware that there are road blocks so you know on all the main roads and paths I believe Main roads are passed I don't know maybe she travelled into the jungle for water things like that so we thought that was good because we thought she would struggle to move beyond that but somebody within Would see her yes.
Q. There was an alleged sighting of Nora is that right
A that's right yes
Q that sighting with such have taken place on the Tuesday so the day before
A yeah
Q. What were you told in relation to that
A. We were told quite a lot actually we were told where was the fact we were subsequently taken to that area we were told that it was by employee of the local water plant been travelling on his motorbike at the time on his way to work that he'd seen a female not wearing any clothes in the water with her back to him that he'd seen her from the main road at the actual place where she was was at the bottom of the ravine so quite some distance below physically where he was that it wasn't quite dark but it was at dusk time told the police of this immediately because he hadn't realised until it was on the news Is that there was a missing persons case he decided to go and give his statement so that's what I recall being told at the time.
Q On the the Thursday police officer was assigned to the case believe that's the gentleman that you referred to as Nick
A yes
Q can you just explain what his role was and what your interaction with him was
A We had a great deal of interaction with Nick we were told he was assigned as our liaison and Communications Officer but that also he had a role in coordinating efforts and communicating across the wide number of people who are being deployed in the search it was quite clear to us that he was communicating across multiple divisions he was also the international police to preserve by that point so a local Singaporean best French officer had been sent to us to British police officers have been sent to us someone from the Met police metropolitan police one from the National crime agency officers in the beach and we were sent an Irish police officer Across all of those people who are embassies on a daily basis twice daily in fact and that was another issue for us because they weren't really able to or allowed to help in any meaningful way but they were doing their best to offer assistance was talking to them he was very good at keeping them informed invited them to all of them he also coordinated us so they were different things that we were asked to do talk to various officials at one point we had to have blood tests taken repeatedly we had to make more statements as he did tell us every day about how many people have been deployed where they were deployed to explain is that every day between two and 4 km radius was then being searched he also was able to tell us about them that the subsequent criminal that we are put into place such as such as employee interviews, local criminal activity being more carefully looked up And I suppose we were on clear to what extent actually had a role in taking decisions or directing specific operations we knew he was fully involved in understanding what was happening in making sure that people were doing different things at different times of the day so a lot of contact with him
Q. and I believe it's right there on the Friday you determined to actually offer a reward regarding Nora
A well discussed it A number of times and we discussed it with Nick as a strategy initially there was real concern that this could distract efforts that we could be flooded with a lot of insincere information we die looted the police effort by potentially following lots of runs of leads that this could be potentially detrimental and there was real concern that that was the right strategy to initially but eventually we decided that we would do that we had some support from a local person business from my home to Belfast in Ireland to help us with that and after again further deliberation we decided that we would put that strategy into place and Nick coordinated the effort required to be able to manage a phone line should it be needed and I believe that was the following Sunday friday at double check my journal notes but I think that's what it was and I then made that statement obviously publicly the day before Nora was in fact found
Q. and then. As we know it was found on the 13th of August can I just ask you a little bit about that day where were you when you receive the news and who didyou receive the news from
A it was the middle of the afternoon And at the time I was in the pool with my other children we were trying to keep the other children occupied and distracted and most of my days were spent liasing with a great number of people and I have very little time with the children Half an hour or less likely to be disturbed so I was the children and I just remember with both Nick and McMoran the Irish police officer told me to get out of the pool that they needed to speak to me immediately so I quickly changed and went to the sora house for me and it was at that And they have reason to believe it was Nora and that they were telling us this before further confirm because they were aware of that journalists had already been to the site we are very concerned that we would hear this news through the media through the radio channel so they went off and I guess communication and further explore all of us they returned returned I don't remember remember the exact date but remember after and maybe a couple of hours or two hours that they need us to identify Nora.
Q did you then Then go on to the hospital
A yes a police escort accompanied us to the hospital Also accompanied us but it was just myself and Sebastian that were asked to identify Nora which we did.
Q I've got no further questions for you but if you could please kindly assist other council may have a few questions okay
Q can you hear me yes I can hear you clearly sorry what happened to your daughter.
Q When was the first time you was informed about the condition of the special condition suffered by Nora?
A after she was born within 24 hours when you get there was something wrong because Nora had trouble breathing and what we realised was that she was specifically struggling to breathe easily through her nose which meant that she was having be occupied I don't know They didn’t do all the work at the same time and we noticed this because we couldn't Lie Nora on her back but without her getting upset and very quickly the hospital started to do investigations with Nora and her first 10 days were very busy and difficult they proceeded to she was moved to a Special neonatal unit where she was being monitored 24 seven she had general anaesthetic to explore her breathing difficulties and at that time they were able to see her passages were blocked and were swollen and her breathing operation was successful but the hospital needed to explore why that had been there in the first place and they strong A genetic Lord other things like whether Laura but it took a almost a year of investigation through a number of specialist services we were connected to Saint Thomases hospital which is a specialist Children's Hospital fortunate to be there and the number of specialists interacted with us at that first year and eventually one of the genetic specialist informed us that they believed that Nora had her condition and they proceeded to book a MRI scan to scan Noras brain and they were looking for also to the discount her brain and they were also looking for particular genetic patterns.
Q so Nora was diagnosed before she was one
A yes
Q So what actually medical complications come with this abnormality
A And the even genetic specialist struggle to understand everything that is likely to happen they explained very well to us what they called this phenomenon of central alignment know that Noras general difficulties with the central area another area I suppose associated with that was Nora would this was her nature but also part of her condition physically she was more aligned to be in the middle and that was why she had such trouble with Balance she was not balance left right side physical complication, nice maybe the stomach complications that install a complication they couldn't tell us about that at the time were developed any issue with eating normal bodily functions were intact that she had specialists in endocrinology and so on monitoring her growth and her physical development so for example a puberty happens normally normally she could eat normally she grew teeth normally her digestive system was absolutely normal so she had no other than what I've described there were no other difficulties The extreme could develop those things obviously as she grew and they couldn't tell us exactly when she was little bit as she grew we knew Nora and what that meant Was that she would have described that from a cognitive perspective she would have a lot of difficulties so we knew even when she was very young that Nora would probably never be autonomous never managed mainstream education she needs specialised education to they knew that
Q was able to eat by herself was she a picky eater
A No she nor I loved the food it was one of her passion points Nora couldn't have many interests because cognitively that was difficult but she absolutely loved food one of our frequent in the kitchen together making things so she had everything she well she constantly talked about being hungry and wanting food she really did love her food so that was never an issue could you eat by yourself certainly when she was younger she needed help for a long time with but that was to do with swallow absolutely not I suppose I should say and they will initially a bit concerned about tension in her jaw and her facial muscles but not to the extent where it is never any concerns about her and when she was 15 she eats very healthily very broad diet and other than again no difficulties with problem area for hee
Q okay so is there any okay so is it that you and the family travelled together
A Re-summer we would go to our respective homes in Ireland and France sometimes we would go during the year also so on half term breaks from school so there is it Halloween break at the end of October usually one in February and one in May and I would say on average 2 out of 3 of those breaks I would again by myself sometimes also with my husband travel to either Ireland or France with the children and especially for the half term break in May because it always coincided with Nora's birthday and we most often went to Ireland and were in Ireland on her birthday q. okay so I see that on the least To Malaysia was the longest journey ever experienced by Nora
A and well it was equivalent as two year previous to the trip ticket to Singapore or similar and get those two trips work
Q So about the trip to Bali and Singapore so if I get from London so I'll wait for the trip and 14 hours yes at short stop in Abu Dhabi, so 18 I think so in total
Q so did your husband tell you about Nora on the trip
A yes He said that all the children were excited of course they watched a lot of movies is a big novelty to be a long haul flight unlimited movies things like that and they act they tried to sleep but none of the children okay and they work very well rested okay
Q so they didn’t sleep well on the flight, ok now What did you do for lunch when all of you arrived?
A and we all had the same meal and it was a curry prepared by the resort vegetarian it was I think it might have been a pumpkin curry something like that made with local vegetables and a curry sauce very nice and we all at that meeting very well everyone liked the food
Q it was a little spicy not very spicy
A no
Q so Nora was okaywith it yes
A yes
Q I have some problem in view of your travel from before your family so what do you see what did you see Nora she experienced what did you experience any jetlag because you said that she had a sleeping problem?
A Possible I would be fine just like inability to sleep on subsequent evenings or to wake up at strange times and The jetlag for Australia where there is a bigger time difference was the worst I've ever experienced any worse than when I frequently travelled to Singapore. what I had from travelling so I knew I had a particularly severe case of it so I wasn't expecting the children to be Same level of jetlag I was very aware of them being tired on the first day I attributed that sleep and I was hoping that if we went to bed at a good time and they slept that that would yeah set their body clocks well and it wouldn't suffer too badly from jetlag obviously there's always some jetlag when you change time zones so I wasn't really aware of anything obviously I can't say whether Nora had worse jetlag than just feeling tired on the first day because I didn't get to see her the next day so I don't know if she struggled to sleep for certain is that she fell asleep when I put her to bed
Q alright Yes thank you I will present the Dusun thank you I just want to ask a few questions and we just want to clarify now as regards the space in the room so just to get an idea need to access the mezzanine is where the children were asleep is that
a. correct correct yes
Q Nora correct had no difficulties climbing up and down the those stairs, she didn’t need carrying
A. Correct, like everyone Nora could climb up and down stairs And like everyone she would've use the hand rail to get up and down then she could do that
Q Do you so Nora is by your bedroom door, from the bottom yes just a few centimetres
a. yes just a few steps away that's right
Q and the front door as you explain turn the handle and you are out
A yes
Q your children with you now in a strange place Nora is relying on you that evening nora is very reliant on you and that evening and I were in your place I would want to keep an eye or an ear out for them is that right.
A no I was not in any way concerned about the children not being able to sleep particularly previously when we made that journey fine they manage to sleep well the evening after we arrived they were good at sleeping have any particular concerns about that I also knew that they knew where we were so when you come down the spiral staircase our bedroom just to the right and the bathroom is also in front of you so you go anywhere else you have to turn around you have to go behind I didn't think they do any of the children would struggle to find the bathroom if they needed it in the night including Nora I honestly thought none of them would move at all during the night
Q but sometimes during the night they come in and
A when they were young when they were younger yes it was quite honestly quite unusual for that to happen by the time they were the age as I described but occasionally it would happen If they needed us they would come but they didn't do that frequently anymore
Q you are open to that of course
A of course our bedroom door was at home always closed and sora house in that evening it was also closed I closed it specifically because the light coming from outside it was dark at night but not before a certain time so it 10 o'clock when I went to bed there was a lamp from the resort that was shining directly into the bedroom which would have disturbed my sleep so I closed the door to block out that light and also I was not in any way concerned about the children they know how to open the door so if they need me they open the door so the door was closed it was a sliding door so I fully slid across.
Q so the door was easy to open
A Absolutely yes yeah
Q. and then we are now on the mezzanine with the three children that's correct, you heard no noise correct
A I would say what I said earlier which was that I was aware of voices at one point inside so during the night I was aware of muffled signs but because I was not fully aware
Q sorry to interrupt but you were aware of sounds inside the house
A Inside guess like yes
Q and that didn’t cause you any alarm
A I was in I was not fully conscious so I was in between sleeping and being awake so I wasn't really processing my thoughts normally so no at the time I wasn't concerned I was just aware it was as it was a sense rather than a conscious calculated oh I hear sounds what is that it was not is well processed in my thoughts is that yes
Q so would I be right in saying that It cost me no alarm
A it causes me no alarm because I wasn’t fully conscious
Q now the window that you talked about that was seen the next day open would you agree with me. The door is easier to access for anyone who wants to go out, you can disagree with me
A yes it's definitely Easier to walk out the door to climb out the window
Q so errmmmm all her physical ability she had normally normal bodily functions yes no no she was very small as she was extremely light in weight and height probably probably 5'1" something like that and just over 30 kg in weight now.
I’m off to bed at 2:37
A. so I mentioned my brother and Dominic our close friend who arrived on the Sunday. My sister arrived the next day on the Monday and the day after that my parents my sister previously mentioned and two other sisters all arrived and they stayed with us through Before they arrived at my sisters husband Matthew McAllister also arrived he flew directly from the US where he had been working he was due to be flying back to Glasgow but he come directly to Kuala Lumpur to Matthew was also with us and then later in the week I'm sorry I need to refer my notes we made notes on what was happening every day because so much is happening and I have a little journal here if you'd like me to reference it, my other sister her partner Dario arrived at morning In the week probably the Thursday those are all the family members and all those family members that stayed with us until after Nora was found.
Q In terms of you you've told us a little about you told us about what happened on the Sunday which was the first day of the search and on the second day of the search you explained you had some communication with the police at that stage the search and rescue effort was well underway
A yes I am told 170 officers were searching by then and we were told Looking already at that point within a radius of 3 km which we thought was a good radius it would've been reasonable to expect Nora to have got if she'd gone anywhere by her by herself by the Monday
Q so you are content in terms of the parameters of the search
A Yes definitely that I should've said earlier you know we are Nora we believe had she been on her own difficult it was to her limitations and you know I think we were aware that there are road blocks so you know on all the main roads and paths I believe Main roads are passed I don't know maybe she travelled into the jungle for water things like that so we thought that was good because we thought she would struggle to move beyond that but somebody within Would see her yes.
Q. There was an alleged sighting of Nora is that right
A that's right yes
Q that sighting with such have taken place on the Tuesday so the day before
A yeah
Q. What were you told in relation to that
A. We were told quite a lot actually we were told where was the fact we were subsequently taken to that area we were told that it was by employee of the local water plant been travelling on his motorbike at the time on his way to work that he'd seen a female not wearing any clothes in the water with her back to him that he'd seen her from the main road at the actual place where she was was at the bottom of the ravine so quite some distance below physically where he was that it wasn't quite dark but it was at dusk time told the police of this immediately because he hadn't realised until it was on the news Is that there was a missing persons case he decided to go and give his statement so that's what I recall being told at the time.
Q On the the Thursday police officer was assigned to the case believe that's the gentleman that you referred to as Nick
A yes
Q can you just explain what his role was and what your interaction with him was
A We had a great deal of interaction with Nick we were told he was assigned as our liaison and Communications Officer but that also he had a role in coordinating efforts and communicating across the wide number of people who are being deployed in the search it was quite clear to us that he was communicating across multiple divisions he was also the international police to preserve by that point so a local Singaporean best French officer had been sent to us to British police officers have been sent to us someone from the Met police metropolitan police one from the National crime agency officers in the beach and we were sent an Irish police officer Across all of those people who are embassies on a daily basis twice daily in fact and that was another issue for us because they weren't really able to or allowed to help in any meaningful way but they were doing their best to offer assistance was talking to them he was very good at keeping them informed invited them to all of them he also coordinated us so they were different things that we were asked to do talk to various officials at one point we had to have blood tests taken repeatedly we had to make more statements as he did tell us every day about how many people have been deployed where they were deployed to explain is that every day between two and 4 km radius was then being searched he also was able to tell us about them that the subsequent criminal that we are put into place such as such as employee interviews, local criminal activity being more carefully looked up And I suppose we were on clear to what extent actually had a role in taking decisions or directing specific operations we knew he was fully involved in understanding what was happening in making sure that people were doing different things at different times of the day so a lot of contact with him
Q. and I believe it's right there on the Friday you determined to actually offer a reward regarding Nora
A well discussed it A number of times and we discussed it with Nick as a strategy initially there was real concern that this could distract efforts that we could be flooded with a lot of insincere information we die looted the police effort by potentially following lots of runs of leads that this could be potentially detrimental and there was real concern that that was the right strategy to initially but eventually we decided that we would do that we had some support from a local person business from my home to Belfast in Ireland to help us with that and after again further deliberation we decided that we would put that strategy into place and Nick coordinated the effort required to be able to manage a phone line should it be needed and I believe that was the following Sunday friday at double check my journal notes but I think that's what it was and I then made that statement obviously publicly the day before Nora was in fact found
Q. and then. As we know it was found on the 13th of August can I just ask you a little bit about that day where were you when you receive the news and who didyou receive the news from
A it was the middle of the afternoon And at the time I was in the pool with my other children we were trying to keep the other children occupied and distracted and most of my days were spent liasing with a great number of people and I have very little time with the children Half an hour or less likely to be disturbed so I was the children and I just remember with both Nick and McMoran the Irish police officer told me to get out of the pool that they needed to speak to me immediately so I quickly changed and went to the sora house for me and it was at that And they have reason to believe it was Nora and that they were telling us this before further confirm because they were aware of that journalists had already been to the site we are very concerned that we would hear this news through the media through the radio channel so they went off and I guess communication and further explore all of us they returned returned I don't remember remember the exact date but remember after and maybe a couple of hours or two hours that they need us to identify Nora.
Q did you then Then go on to the hospital
A yes a police escort accompanied us to the hospital Also accompanied us but it was just myself and Sebastian that were asked to identify Nora which we did.
Q I've got no further questions for you but if you could please kindly assist other council may have a few questions okay
Q can you hear me yes I can hear you clearly sorry what happened to your daughter.
Q When was the first time you was informed about the condition of the special condition suffered by Nora?
A after she was born within 24 hours when you get there was something wrong because Nora had trouble breathing and what we realised was that she was specifically struggling to breathe easily through her nose which meant that she was having be occupied I don't know They didn’t do all the work at the same time and we noticed this because we couldn't Lie Nora on her back but without her getting upset and very quickly the hospital started to do investigations with Nora and her first 10 days were very busy and difficult they proceeded to she was moved to a Special neonatal unit where she was being monitored 24 seven she had general anaesthetic to explore her breathing difficulties and at that time they were able to see her passages were blocked and were swollen and her breathing operation was successful but the hospital needed to explore why that had been there in the first place and they strong A genetic Lord other things like whether Laura but it took a almost a year of investigation through a number of specialist services we were connected to Saint Thomases hospital which is a specialist Children's Hospital fortunate to be there and the number of specialists interacted with us at that first year and eventually one of the genetic specialist informed us that they believed that Nora had her condition and they proceeded to book a MRI scan to scan Noras brain and they were looking for also to the discount her brain and they were also looking for particular genetic patterns.
Q so Nora was diagnosed before she was one
A yes
Q So what actually medical complications come with this abnormality
A And the even genetic specialist struggle to understand everything that is likely to happen they explained very well to us what they called this phenomenon of central alignment know that Noras general difficulties with the central area another area I suppose associated with that was Nora would this was her nature but also part of her condition physically she was more aligned to be in the middle and that was why she had such trouble with Balance she was not balance left right side physical complication, nice maybe the stomach complications that install a complication they couldn't tell us about that at the time were developed any issue with eating normal bodily functions were intact that she had specialists in endocrinology and so on monitoring her growth and her physical development so for example a puberty happens normally normally she could eat normally she grew teeth normally her digestive system was absolutely normal so she had no other than what I've described there were no other difficulties The extreme could develop those things obviously as she grew and they couldn't tell us exactly when she was little bit as she grew we knew Nora and what that meant Was that she would have described that from a cognitive perspective she would have a lot of difficulties so we knew even when she was very young that Nora would probably never be autonomous never managed mainstream education she needs specialised education to they knew that
Q was able to eat by herself was she a picky eater
A No she nor I loved the food it was one of her passion points Nora couldn't have many interests because cognitively that was difficult but she absolutely loved food one of our frequent in the kitchen together making things so she had everything she well she constantly talked about being hungry and wanting food she really did love her food so that was never an issue could you eat by yourself certainly when she was younger she needed help for a long time with but that was to do with swallow absolutely not I suppose I should say and they will initially a bit concerned about tension in her jaw and her facial muscles but not to the extent where it is never any concerns about her and when she was 15 she eats very healthily very broad diet and other than again no difficulties with problem area for hee
Q okay so is there any okay so is it that you and the family travelled together
A Re-summer we would go to our respective homes in Ireland and France sometimes we would go during the year also so on half term breaks from school so there is it Halloween break at the end of October usually one in February and one in May and I would say on average 2 out of 3 of those breaks I would again by myself sometimes also with my husband travel to either Ireland or France with the children and especially for the half term break in May because it always coincided with Nora's birthday and we most often went to Ireland and were in Ireland on her birthday q. okay so I see that on the least To Malaysia was the longest journey ever experienced by Nora
A and well it was equivalent as two year previous to the trip ticket to Singapore or similar and get those two trips work
Q So about the trip to Bali and Singapore so if I get from London so I'll wait for the trip and 14 hours yes at short stop in Abu Dhabi, so 18 I think so in total
Q so did your husband tell you about Nora on the trip
A yes He said that all the children were excited of course they watched a lot of movies is a big novelty to be a long haul flight unlimited movies things like that and they act they tried to sleep but none of the children okay and they work very well rested okay
Q so they didn’t sleep well on the flight, ok now What did you do for lunch when all of you arrived?
A and we all had the same meal and it was a curry prepared by the resort vegetarian it was I think it might have been a pumpkin curry something like that made with local vegetables and a curry sauce very nice and we all at that meeting very well everyone liked the food
Q it was a little spicy not very spicy
A no
Q so Nora was okaywith it yes
A yes
Q I have some problem in view of your travel from before your family so what do you see what did you see Nora she experienced what did you experience any jetlag because you said that she had a sleeping problem?
A Possible I would be fine just like inability to sleep on subsequent evenings or to wake up at strange times and The jetlag for Australia where there is a bigger time difference was the worst I've ever experienced any worse than when I frequently travelled to Singapore. what I had from travelling so I knew I had a particularly severe case of it so I wasn't expecting the children to be Same level of jetlag I was very aware of them being tired on the first day I attributed that sleep and I was hoping that if we went to bed at a good time and they slept that that would yeah set their body clocks well and it wouldn't suffer too badly from jetlag obviously there's always some jetlag when you change time zones so I wasn't really aware of anything obviously I can't say whether Nora had worse jetlag than just feeling tired on the first day because I didn't get to see her the next day so I don't know if she struggled to sleep for certain is that she fell asleep when I put her to bed
Q alright Yes thank you I will present the Dusun thank you I just want to ask a few questions and we just want to clarify now as regards the space in the room so just to get an idea need to access the mezzanine is where the children were asleep is that
a. correct correct yes
Q Nora correct had no difficulties climbing up and down the those stairs, she didn’t need carrying
A. Correct, like everyone Nora could climb up and down stairs And like everyone she would've use the hand rail to get up and down then she could do that
Q Do you so Nora is by your bedroom door, from the bottom yes just a few centimetres
a. yes just a few steps away that's right
Q and the front door as you explain turn the handle and you are out
A yes
Q your children with you now in a strange place Nora is relying on you that evening nora is very reliant on you and that evening and I were in your place I would want to keep an eye or an ear out for them is that right.
A no I was not in any way concerned about the children not being able to sleep particularly previously when we made that journey fine they manage to sleep well the evening after we arrived they were good at sleeping have any particular concerns about that I also knew that they knew where we were so when you come down the spiral staircase our bedroom just to the right and the bathroom is also in front of you so you go anywhere else you have to turn around you have to go behind I didn't think they do any of the children would struggle to find the bathroom if they needed it in the night including Nora I honestly thought none of them would move at all during the night
Q but sometimes during the night they come in and
A when they were young when they were younger yes it was quite honestly quite unusual for that to happen by the time they were the age as I described but occasionally it would happen If they needed us they would come but they didn't do that frequently anymore
Q you are open to that of course
A of course our bedroom door was at home always closed and sora house in that evening it was also closed I closed it specifically because the light coming from outside it was dark at night but not before a certain time so it 10 o'clock when I went to bed there was a lamp from the resort that was shining directly into the bedroom which would have disturbed my sleep so I closed the door to block out that light and also I was not in any way concerned about the children they know how to open the door so if they need me they open the door so the door was closed it was a sliding door so I fully slid across.
Q so the door was easy to open
A Absolutely yes yeah
Q. and then we are now on the mezzanine with the three children that's correct, you heard no noise correct
A I would say what I said earlier which was that I was aware of voices at one point inside so during the night I was aware of muffled signs but because I was not fully aware
Q sorry to interrupt but you were aware of sounds inside the house
A Inside guess like yes
Q and that didn’t cause you any alarm
A I was in I was not fully conscious so I was in between sleeping and being awake so I wasn't really processing my thoughts normally so no at the time I wasn't concerned I was just aware it was as it was a sense rather than a conscious calculated oh I hear sounds what is that it was not is well processed in my thoughts is that yes
Q so would I be right in saying that It cost me no alarm
A it causes me no alarm because I wasn’t fully conscious
Q now the window that you talked about that was seen the next day open would you agree with me. The door is easier to access for anyone who wants to go out, you can disagree with me
A yes it's definitely Easier to walk out the door to climb out the window
Q so errmmmm all her physical ability she had normally normal bodily functions yes no no she was very small as she was extremely light in weight and height probably probably 5'1" something like that and just over 30 kg in weight now.
I’m off to bed at 2:37
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The main things we originally discussed were how un family friendly the resort was both on the website and on trip advisor. There were also numerous tours on YouTube available. The testimony claimed the exact opposite of what we all read. That could have all been altered within 48 hours, but I’m sceptical. We also know Nora could use a spiral staircase on her own. She could also open the heavy difficult sliding door ( that’s why mum felt comfortable closing it) but not push a pane of glass forwards to open ( with no locks or resistance) I genuinely worry about these parents- they are not dealing with the situation well IMO and it breaks my heart as whether it was an abduction or an accident, I don’t think they are processing the actual holiday period.
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They always sleep with their door closed?
Nora could handle the spiral staircase up and down on her own in a strange place in the dark.
Lots for me to review.
Thank you @Ruthbullock for the wonderful transcription!
Nora could handle the spiral staircase up and down on her own in a strange place in the dark.
Lots for me to review.
Thank you @Ruthbullock for the wonderful transcription!
BBM
It’s all so confusing! She had fallen and bruised her hip badly earlier that evening on their walk. I would think that would make it even harder for her to navigate the staircase by herself after sleeping for awhile. Her hip would hurt more after lying still and getting up IMO. But according to the transcript quoted below her Mom thought she would have no problem with the stairs.
BBM
Would she have shut the front door before realizing she wasn’t in the bathroom? Also, the bathroom had a sliding door and I don’t think that was the case with the front door. But who knows what she could have/would have done.
Commenting on these portions of the transcript:
Not being concerned about Nora’s ability to navigate down the spiral stairs and find the bathroom in an unfamiliar place does not compute with the following statement IMO:
The following statement amazes me. It’s hard for me to imagine not being jolted awake by sounds inside the house in a strange place with an unlocked window. Maybe it’s just me.
I’ve often thought that she was carried into the jungle (hence no sign on her feet of walking), kept somewhere, and when she died, laid on the rock. Why and by whom I can’t say. None of this makes sense.
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You are welcome and yes lots to think about- only 5 more
Hours to go, will do some more tomorrow.
You’re our hero!
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I am emotionally invested in this case. Noras disabilities could have described my own child. I was on holiday when I found out about Nora being missing and even holiday resorts that are all
Inclusive (so your typical hotel) are often unsuitable for us to navigate around, so
From the very beginning it has always made me anxious that her parents just made a bad decision to take her to that resort ( a mistake I have made in the past, fortunately it was a more mainstream resort and everything was fine, it was just not a relaxing enjoyable holiday)
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