Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Chiatos]

I have found a film of part of the Dusun Walk (young children walking the path):

No lighting in this part of the trail.

Edit to add:
Petai at the Northern loop of the Dusun Walk trail. No lighting here, just jungle.

I hope the mystery of Nora's disappearance will be solved.

 

[kittythehare]

I would say it was much earlier. Like a dawn beginning at 5.30 am. Noises from the forest much earlier.

Yet contradicted in her testimony?

Ruth, could you please provide a link to the actual recording?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Ruth, could you please provide a link to the actual recording?

 

[kittythehare]

Yet contradicted in her testimony?

Do you believe nora's mother is lying?
I find her testimony to be clear and it appears to be truthful IMO.
Having said that I have not heard much of her actual testimony and I'm unable to find link.
The media reports are all consistent and they all state the same thing.
Her tone of voice and context are important.

 

[Chiatos]

I'm not able to know whether someone took Nora from inside the house.
Perhaps Nora exited on her own (to pee? or to hide because she didn't want to go for the hike that had been planned? who knows?)

But how on earth did she end up 2,5 km away from the house? In full jungle and with no significant abrasions to her feet? That's the question.

 

[kittythehare]

Thanks, but that link is just looping over itself for the first 3 minutes.
I have found a better link here.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm not able to know whether someone took Nora from inside the house.
Perhaps Nora exited on her own (to pee? or to hide because she didn't want to go for the hike that had been planned? who knows?)

But how on earth did she end up 2,5 km away from the house? In full jungle and with no significant abrasions to her feet? That's the question.

I agree.
It is the question and the only significant question.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Do you believe nora's mother is lying?
I find her testimony to be clear and it appears to be truthful IMO.
Having said that I have not heard much of her actual testimony and I'm unable to find link.
The media reports are all consistent and they all state the same thing.
Her tone of voice and context are important.

No absolutely not, I genuinely don’t think she is lying, I think everything is said from the bottom of her heart. It’s interesting watching the testimonies on there as it is done on zoom you can watch the reactions of everyone else involved at that point and there are some points where even the professionals respond in unusual ways to her testimony. The judge having to remind mum that only she will make the decision about whether there was criminal activity was a necessary point as well. There are just a lot of strange matters in this case that to me aren’t logical, nor normal chain reactions of emotive thoughts.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Thanks, but that link is just looping over itself for the first 3 minutes.
I have found a better link here.

Oh sorry, yes there was two that day, I didn’t even look which one I shared, need my morning coffee.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I'm not able to know whether someone took Nora from inside the house.
Perhaps Nora exited on her own (to pee? or to hide because she didn't want to go for the hike that had been planned? who knows?)

But how on earth did she end up 2,5 km away from the house? In full jungle and with no significant abrasions to her feet? That's the question.

Completely agree

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Completely agree

I find it hard to articulate my thoughts, because I absolutely agree with this as well, also that the family are totally innocent.

But I'm not altogether surprised that local agencies were confused re Nora's abilities and that this may have impacted their initial responses. Imagine adding in translation issues as well.

 

[kittythehare]

This is a video of Sebastian's testimony

 

[Ardoch]

What about the possibility that N hid in one spot after she'd walked so far due to weakness and/or fear? Would she have understood that the search team were there to help her? Or was she simply too weak to shout?
Still doesn't explain the lack of abrasions.
I think I read at the start that N's mother shouted out her name on some of the searches, was it established that she'd been in the same area searching where N was found?

 

[Ruthbullock]

What about the possibility that N hid in one spot after she'd walked so far due to weakness and/or fear? Would she have understood that the search team were there to help her? Or was she simply too weak to shout?
Still doesn't explain the lack of abrasions.
I think I read at the start that N's mother shouted out her name on some of the searches, was it established that she'd been in the same area searching where N was found?

Noras mother’s voice was recorded and played in the search, Noras mother was looking after the siblings, so didn’t join in the searches. I have often wondered if she may have heard the tape, but not seeing her mother there may have stopped her making herself known even if the search party was near.
I do think there is potential she got lost, but hid or stayed out of sight, not necessarily deliberately, but more because she didn’t know how to respond to the situation and therefore rather than jumping up as the majority of us would whilst silently thanking the world for finding us, I’m not convinced Nora would have reacted that way at all.

 

[MsBetsy]

If you went for a short walk round a resort and felt it was too difficult for your child even on the resort pathways - would you then book a 6-8 hour hike (the waterfall was never mentioned) up a mountain? Mum then justifies that decision when questioned by saying the website said it was ok- ( yet strangely when we all visited the website at the time Nora was missing, the resort wasn’t suitable for children and families and didn’t pretend to be, and you had to phone up if you had children to discuss, you couldn’t book online)
I agree there is no way this knowledge makes any difference to what sadly happened to Nora, but I have listened to the full 4 hours of mums testimony twice now and she is questioned over these specifics quite a lot and rightly so, once you have experienced something, you would be very naive to assume a much longer mountain trail that took 6-8 hours would be easier than the hotel grounds- and the family strike me as anything but naive.

I think Nora's parents would have done what any parent would have done if the hike seemed to tiring or difficult for Nora. They could have turned around and taken her back to the hotel, or one parent could have carried on with the other children and the other could have walked back with her. Or, depending on her mood or how tired she was in the morning, could have decided not to take her at all.

I have seen no evidence that Nora's mother showed a disregard for her. They seem like responsible parents who provided experiences for their children that many aren't able to.

 

[kittythehare]

I have found a film of part of the Dusun Walk (young children walking the path):

No lighting in this part of the trail.

Edit to add:
Petai at the Northern loop of the Dusun Walk trail. No lighting here, just jungle.

I hope the mystery of Nora's disappearance will be solved.

It was great to watch this straight after watching Sebastian's entire testimony... it's very clear now, it was not a difficult path but it is one where one could easily slip.
Again, it's nothing like the trail description to her final resting place which appears treacherous in comparison.
A path like this might leave bare feet relatively unscathed, I cannot see how the other could have bearing Nora's condition in mind, as reiterated by both her parents as well as damage wrought by the environmental conditions present at the time.
I don't have the slightest idea how even an able bodied person could survive without sustenance in those conditions as long as she allegedly did.

 

[Chiatos]

This is a video of Sebastian's testimony

Summary of Sebastian's testimony up to 45:00 (the rest will come later on):
- Irish police officer was also on site; he/she informed Sebastian of the find of Nora's body on the 13th
- Nora was used to travel by plane (France / Ireland / UK)
- Sebastian + kids arrived at 10 a.m.
- Sebastian noticed broken fences on his walk to/from the main entrance (letter "S")
- The front gate was secured and with live CCTV
- Sebastian was downstairs on the sofa while his wife put the children to bed round 10 p.m.
- Heard party noises during the night from a chalet nearby
- Later on he heard muffled noises from within the Sora
- He got up from bed at 8 a.m. But he had already been awake since 7 a.m.
- Miss Hanim stayed away at the police station for about two hours
- Sebastian searched the premises and reached the back gate and saw that that gate was not secured as the front gate and had no CCTV
- After two hours Sebastian was driven to the police station (Hanim had not returned yet)
- It was Sebastian's impression that the policemen did not fully realise the seriousness of the matter

 

[Chiatos]

00:45 to 1:00;
- Family friend Mr. Dominique arrived at the Dusun in the evening
- That same evening some houses outside the resort were searched by police on the request of the family
- Police officers urged Sebastian not to join the searches as from Monday onward since it was there job, not his
- The French ambassador visited a few times to the Dusun during the period of the searches
- Sebastian was informed (by "Nick" = Irish police officer?) that a body had been found "within 2 km" from the resort (Malaysian police officer was present)
- Immediately after, his wife was informed
- Immediately after that, the two police officers (Irish + Malaysian) went to the site to check the body
- The same evening Sebastian and wife were escorted to the hospital to identify the body
- Sebastian and wife identified Nora's a second time the next morning and gave authorisation for an autopsy
- They noticed Nora's feet not being particularly damaged. Incompatible with having been on the move for a week
- The spot where Nora had been found was reached first by (police) car and then about one hour's walk in the jungle
- "We walked along a very rocky stream. The terrain was quite dense and very slippery."
- Nora's mobility and sense of balance wouldn't have permitted her to reach that far. She also had no survival instinct. Not wearing shoes, Sebastian does not believe Nora would have been able to venture out of the resort and get so far on her own

 

[kittythehare]

No absolutely not, I genuinely don’t think she is lying, I think everything is said from the bottom of her heart. It’s interesting watching the testimonies on there as it is done on zoom you can watch the reactions of everyone else involved at that point and there are some points where even the professionals respond in unusual ways to her testimony. The judge having to remind mum that only she will make the decision about whether there was criminal activity was a necessary point as well. There are just a lot of strange matters in this case that to me aren’t logical, nor normal chain reactions of emotive thoughts.

Back to this.
I was not impressed by the behaviour of many of the zoom attendees.
The 2 men who shared a screen were visibly reacting and speaking to each other and laughing inappropriately while both parents were testifying.
The woman in the middle screen who asked many questions was having a full conversation with somebody offscreen and laughing at times, while parents were testifying. She twice, at least tried to make Nora's mother say it was only her opinion, not a fact, the dog, on one occasion and there were several other incidents too.

This is as much about how the Malaysian authorities behaved throughout the investigation as it is about Nora.

I was not impressed by what they depicted and now I'm suspicious of them and I'm never gonna visit Malaysia.
If I had to testify on the death of a child and other people were visibly behaving in the manner they were, I'd want to walk away or give them a severe tongue lashing.

Missing people, first 24 hrs etc...

It was disrespectful.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This post lands at random.

It is fine to point out or question what may be perceived as discrepancies in statements / information presented, but at all times bear in mind Websleuths TOS as it relates to our victim friendly policy.

From The Rules: Etiquette & Information

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