Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Chiatos]

This is a video of Sebastian's testimony

Sebastian's testimony continued
2:31-+/-2:40
- S searched for Nora on the first day. Not after the first day, since he had been instructed by police to stay put
- On the first day, the police reacted quite slowly. The second police was more organised
- Nora shared her bedroom with her sister throughout her life, therefore sleeping in the mezzanine was the most logical thing to do
- S did not recognise the noises at night as being Nora's or of any of the children

After a break of about an hour, the court resumed at 03:40, Sebastian not visible and live streaming was turned off round 03:45

 

[Ardoch]

If N was abducted, what reasons would there be for then finding her body in the jungle? One possibility is that she wasn't taken very far or she was brought back to the vicinity to make it look like she had wandered.
The latter possibility would have caused more activity though and the possibility of being caught. IMO

 

[kittythehare]

If N was abducted, what reasons would there be for then finding her body in the jungle? One possibility is that she wasn't taken very far or she was brought back to the vicinity to make it look like she had wandered.
The latter possibility would have caused more activity though and the possibility of being caught. IMO

We do not know, all we know is that her parents testified that the marks on her feet were inconsistent with distance travelled and environmental conditions.

 

[Chiatos]

The questions by the court have focused somewhat on Nora's going to the toilet and to the presence of a second toilet in the chalet.
I wonder whether we will hear more about that and what the importance of that second toilet might be.

 

[kittythehare]

The questions by the court have focused somewhat on Nora's going to the toilet and to the presence of a second toilet in the chalet.
I wonder whether we will hear more about that and what the importance of that second toilet might be.

LE have already testified but we don't have translations.
suspected it was a red herring.
Of no consequence, unless it was about proving or disproving an earlier submission made by LE.

 

[Chiatos]

Meabh explained why the family had never made use of the toilet next to the front door: because it looked dirty and didn't smell clean or hygienic. They only made use of the principle bathroom that was accessible through two separate doors.

Edited to add: in which of the two bathrooms did police find the blood stains?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The questions by the court have focused somewhat on Nora's going to the toilet and to the presence of a second toilet in the chalet.
I wonder whether we will hear more about that and what the importance of that second toilet might be.

It is interesting, that amount of focus. All the questions to SQ re did she go before swimming etc.

My thoughts are that they are making a connection between the urinary condition Nora had (sometimes?) and why she might leave the chalet of her own accord. So it seems to me they are trying to establish how frequently she needed to pee, and whether this meant she looked for a loo in the night. I suppose they think as she used the loo on the plane independently, she had the self confidence and cognitive ability to do that alone so it isnt a huge leap that she may have opened a main door by mistake and stepped outside.

That would not explain to me how she ended up 2.5 km away in a jungle though, not if her reaction would be to sit quietly and wait for help.

JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Meabh explained why the family had never made use of the toilet next to the front door: because it looked dirty and didn't smell clean or hygienic. They only made use of the principle bathroom that was accessible through two separate doors.

This is helpful thanks. So the second loo they didnt use was close to the main door. If they did use this one, it would be easier to confuse it with the main door due to its location possibly.

 

[Skigh]

I do find it strange that as a known bed wetter ,they did not use incontinence pads for Nora. There has been no mention of using protective mattress covers and bringing their own sheets.
I also think ,given Nora's disabilities,navigating the spiral stair case in the dark would be very difficult.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I would say it was much earlier. Like a dawn beginning at 5.30 am. Noises from the forest much earlier.

Thank you.

 

[Officer Dibble]

If you went for a short walk round a resort and felt it was too difficult for your child even on the resort pathways - would you then book a 6-8 hour hike (the waterfall was never mentioned) up a mountain? Mum then justifies that decision when questioned by saying the website said it was ok- ( yet strangely when we all visited the website at the time Nora was missing, the resort wasn’t suitable for children and families and didn’t pretend to be, and you had to phone up if you had children to discuss, you couldn’t book online)
I agree there is no way this knowledge makes any difference to what sadly happened to Nora, but I have listened to the full 4 hours of mums testimony twice now and she is questioned over these specifics quite a lot and rightly so, once you have experienced something, you would be very naive to assume a much longer mountain trail that took 6-8 hours would be easier than the hotel grounds- and the family strike me as anything but naive.

I have to say I remember all you are mentioning and agree with your current thoughts on this.

 

[kittythehare]

It is interesting, that amount of focus. All the questions to SQ re did she go before swimming etc.

My thoughts are that they are making a connection between the urinary condition Nora had (sometimes?) and why she might leave the chalet of her own accord. So it seems to me they are trying to establish how frequently she needed to pee, and whether this meant she looked for a loo in the night. I suppose they think as she used the loo on the plane independently, she had the self confidence and cognitive ability to do that alone so it isnt a huge leap that she may have opened a main door by mistake and stepped outside.

That would not explain to me how she ended up 2.5 km away in a jungle though, not if her reaction would be to sit quietly and wait for help.

JMO

wowsers the diagram is brilliant! Well done getting that !
While studying it I started to wonder whether her bathroom in the UK was on the left at the end of the stairs? Maybe , because she was so very tired she turned left automatically?
But it doesn't explain the kms. allegedly walked subsequently as you rightly say

 

[Officer Dibble]

No absolutely not, I genuinely don’t think she is lying, I think everything is said from the bottom of her heart. It’s interesting watching the testimonies on there as it is done on zoom you can watch the reactions of everyone else involved at that point and there are some points where even the professionals respond in unusual ways to her testimony. The judge having to remind mum that only she will make the decision about whether there was criminal activity was a necessary point as well. There are just a lot of strange matters in this case that to me aren’t logical, nor normal chain reactions of emotive thoughts.

Again I agree with all you say here.

 

[Officer Dibble]

While studying it I started to wonder whether her bathroom in the UK was on the left at the end of the stairs? Maybe , because she was so very tired she turned left automatically?

Good point

 

[Officer Dibble]

1:00-1:45
Sebastian's testimony, continued:

- During the flight Nora went to the toilet by herself
-

So Nora could manipulate/move an aircraft toilet lock then. I think they are light, aren't they? Or are they stiff to move? I can't remember. Surely this means fine motor skills were used?

 

[MsBetsy]

I never saw or read about this, but I was on holiday at the time. Do you have a link, or even previous posts that discussed this? Thanks

I could not find the posts or thread with the discussion, but I see that a couple of articles were linked in response.

Apparently it was more than one witness because it says that "villagers" reported hearing a truck in the vicinity at around 3:00 am.

I haven't heard any mention of it since, so I wondered if police had ever identified the truck or the driver.

 

[Chiatos]

So Nora could manipulate/move an aircraft toilet lock then. I think they are light, aren't they? Or are they stiff to move? I can't remember. Surely this means fine motor skills were used?

Normally they are very light to move.
I don't see anything unusual here.

Sebastian acknowledged that if Nora was able to use the lock in the aircraft, and therefore she probably also could have been able to use the latch of the front door.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I could not find the posts or thread with the discussion, but I see that a couple of articles were linked in response.

Apparently it was more than one witness because it says that "villagers" reported hearing a truck in the vicinity at around 3:00 am.

I haven't heard any mention of it since, so I wondered if police had ever identified the truck or the driver.

Nora Quoirin cops probe reports truck was heard in area on morning she vanished

While searching for the above article, I ran across this nice initial summary to share:
Found Deceased - Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #1

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I could not find the posts or thread with the discussion, but I see that a couple of articles were linked in response.

Apparently it was more than one witness because it says that "villagers" reported hearing a truck in the vicinity at around 3:00 am.

I haven't heard any mention of it since, so I wondered if police had ever identified the truck or the driver.

Kinda like the white woman swimming sighting. Whatever happened with that lead?

 

[MsBetsy]

Kinda like the white woman swimming sighting. Whatever happened with that lead?

Yeah, I've always thought that was a false sighting, mostly because Nora couldn't swim on her own. I think she would have been too afraid to go into the water by herself. Imo