Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Lilibet]

Extracted and bolded, from long text.

I doubt her death was their intention, but what does one do with a special needs young girl? Do you ask the local Shaman for advice?

In the previous thread we explained the Shaman's role. It is essentially that of intervening when there has been a disturbance, an unequal balance of man with nature. Permission must be sought for hunting an animal, for example.

If this is not respected, the shaman offers prayers and eventual punishment within the community.

Thank you @Seni for the reminder. I remember reading about it, but had forgotten.

 

[Lilibet]

I agree which is why she sadly is deceased.

why would someone abduct her to not harm her, not sexually assault her, just to leave her alone to die?

I’m not saying she wasn’t abducted I’m just trying to look for the truth. I’ve followed every detail of this case.

BBM

As I theorized several posts back, I don’t think Nora was targeted and I don’t think anyone intended to harm her. I think it could very well be that she was a witness to burglars in the chalet (the muffled voices heard by her parents), who carried her with them to prevent her from reporting them, and she ended up as unintentional collateral damage. Nora’s mother mentioned the possibility of an abduction for spiritual purposes, which I suppose is equally possible. In either case, Nora’s special needs would not be understood, and her tendency to “freeze” under stress might prevent her from eating or drinking. Once the large scale search was underway, things would get complicated for her abductors. By the time they could figure out what to do, Nora might have died and was laid to rest where she was found. I don’t know, for me this explains what happened best. I just don’t think she got where she ended up on her own. However Nora died, it was a terrible tragedy. I don’t think this inquest or a lawsuit will provide any answers...unless someone comes forward. It’s awful for her parents not to get the answers they need.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating it would be, as a mother, to have your own expertise about your child and how your child always acts and always would react in a certain circumstance questioned. It must be infuriating!

I agree, but I’m surprised they didn’t fight for an impartial paediatrician or teacher to testify as to her physical and social capabilities, or there counsel request written evidence to be submitted to support them. I feel that would have added more weight to the testimony, the Malaysian authorities have always questioned Noras abilities and they will have been prepared for being questioned in depth over this. Her physical abilities are the parents basis for her being abducted - there doesn’t appear to be any other evidence at all to suggest an abduction (I’m not saying it wasn’t an abduction, merely they would want to present as strong a case as possible)

 

[Lilibet]

I agree, but I’m surprised they didn’t fight for an impartial paediatrician or teacher to testify as to her physical and social capabilities, or there counsel request written evidence to be submitted to support them. I feel that would have added more weight to the testimony

Are there any more witnesses left to testify? I agree there should have been a teacher or doctor or at least written evidence of Nora’s capabilities. I assume they would be in agreement with the Quoirins. Although it’s not unusual for a parent to say “my child would/could never” and it turns out they did, I’m hung up on Nora’s feet not showing signs of walking in the jungle. I don’t understand why LE thinks she got there on her own, eluded searchers and died in a spot that was difficult to reach without injuries. Even if she could have done all this, where are the signs on her feet and body? I don’t see how LE and the Quoirins will ever agree.
JMO

 

[Chiatos]

Of all places around the Dusun, Nora's body was found in the surroundings of the waterfall (according to media).
Two km from the Sora. I have difficulty believing that Nora reached there by herself. Regardless whether she would have wanted to prove herself. She didn't have the stamina, she had tripped and fallen on Sunday and she had no survival skills. And the condition of her feet showed no evidence of her having hiked that far and for days.

August 9th, 2019:
Malaysian police hanging posters of missing Nora on pre-existing posters of the waterfall.
That's where Nora was found in the end:

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/c...undreds-pray-for-safety-of-franco-irish-teen/

 

[Ruthbullock]

Are there any more witnesses left to testify? I agree there should have been a teacher or doctor or at least written evidence of Nora’s capabilities. I assume they would be in agreement with the Quoirins. Although it’s not unusual for a parent to say “my child would/could never” and it turns out they did, I’m hung up on Nora’s feet not showing signs of walking in the jungle. I don’t understand why LE thinks she got there on her own, eluded searchers and died in a spot that was difficult to reach without injuries. Even if she could have done all this, where are the signs on her feet and body? I don’t see how LE and the Quoirins will ever agree.
JMO

When we first talked about this case, there was also talk of a third scenario- which is a middle ground of the two. I sometimes think this is something the police may have considered, but again have little evidence of anything. The middle ground is that she left the Sora alone and was found by someone and cared for.one thing that did become apparent during the parents testimony was that there were french, Irish and British police available from early on in the investigation, far more European police than I first realised - surely they would have whistleblowed if they felt the investigation was conducted improperly?

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder if it was the same bathroom they said looked dirty and didn't smell clean.

I'm pretty sure that was a toilet, and not a bathroom.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm pretty sure that was a toilet, and not a bathroom.

Wouldn't the toilet be in the bathroom, though? I was just wondering if there was one bathroom they used, while not using the other one, since they mentioned there being two in the chalet.

One theory is that Nora got up in the night to use the bathroom, so I was wondering if that would have been the one downstairs closer to the door.

 

[kittythehare]

I agree which is why she sadly is deceased.

why would someone abduct her to not harm her, not sexually assault her, just to leave her alone to die?

I’m not saying she wasn’t abducted I’m just trying to look for the truth. I’ve followed every detail of this case.

Have you listened to her mum's testimony?

 

[MsBetsy]

Of all places around the Dusun, Nora's body was found in the surroundings of the waterfall (according to media).
Two km from the Sora. I have difficulty believing that Nora reached there by herself. Regardless whether she would have wanted to prove herself. She didn't have the stamina, she had tripped and fallen on Sunday and she had no survival skills. And the condition of her feet showed no evidence of her having hiked that far and for days.

August 9th, 2019:
Malaysian police hanging posters of missing Nora on pre-existing posters of the waterfall.
That's where Nora was found in the end:

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/c...undreds-pray-for-safety-of-franco-irish-teen/

Yes, it's incredible that she could have gotten that far and survived that long in the jungle with minimal injuries. There was heavy rain in the beginning of the search that hindered the search teams. I don't know how she avoided falling on the slippery rocks or managed the steep terrain.

It's also an amazing coincidence that the shamans predicted she would be found in the area they were searching. After they predicted that a spirit in the form of an animal or human had taken her they said, "She is here now, so we will stay tonight to see if we can find her, then we can know why she went missing."

Then, the searchers who found her said that they had been told a guest had overheard the family talking about the waterfall, and that Nora was excited about seeing it. So they set out to search for her there, the same area that had been previously searched.

After all that time with over 300 LE, search teams and dogs who didn't pick up her scent, she was found right where the Shaman and the volunteer searchers thought she would be.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, it's incredible that she could have gotten that far and survived that long in the jungle with minimal injuries. There was heavy rain in the beginning of the search that hindered the search teams. I don't know how she avoided falling on the slippery rocks or managed the steep terrain.

It's also an amazing coincidence that the shamans predicted she would be found in the area they were searching. After they predicted that a spirit in the form of an animal or human had taken her they said, "She is here now, so we will stay tonight to see if we can find her, then we can know why she went missing."

Then, the searchers who found her said that they had been told a guest had overheard the family talking about the waterfall, and that Nora was excited about seeing it. So they set out to search for her there, the same area that had been previously searched.

After all that time with over 300 LE, search teams and dogs who didn't pick up her scent, she was found right where the Shaman and the volunteer searchers thought she would be.

The shaman did not predict the location of her body.

The hiker who discovered the body of teenager Nóra Quoirin in Malaysia last year has said a Siamese monk divulged clues about her final whereabouts.

Search-and-rescue volunteer Chong Yue Fatt was testifying on day 12 of the inquest into Nóra's death.

He also recalled the sequence of events that led to the discovery of the missing schoolgirl's body on August 13, 2019.
'Monk told us to look for Nóra near river,' says searcher.

 

[kittythehare]

Nora disappeared some time between the hours of 10pm and 7am. We could possibly stretch that to 11pm leaving us an 8 hr window, most of which was in darkness. Night.
https://www.missingpersons.gov.au/s...tions/NMPCC/The SOS Guide Missing Persons.pdf
The resort was searched immediately, estimate 7.30am start? Possibly 8am. She was not there.

The European police did not arrive immediately, within the first 24 hr period.
And while the Quoirins had access to excellent support and back up they still believe, a year later, and having received the full detail of the autopsy, not yet presented to the Court, that Nora had to have been taken and that it was impossible, in light of her known disabilities that she walked that far.
The Quoirins are the experts on their daughter's condition. They said she couldn't do it, they stated the investigation was flawed , there is no evidence to suggest they were lying or in need of an independent 'doctor or expert' to testify to Nora's condition.
They said that last August, they are still saying it now having had access to expert opinion from all sources, including the British pathologist who performed the second autopsy in the UK.

He is still to testify so his findings should clarify quite a lot.
I think it's safe to assume they're still saying what they said last year because his findings concur with their initial impressions.

 

[MsBetsy]

The shaman did not predict the location of her body.

The hiker who discovered the body of teenager Nóra Quoirin in Malaysia last year has said a Siamese monk divulged clues about her final whereabouts.

Search-and-rescue volunteer Chong Yue Fatt was testifying on day 12 of the inquest into Nóra's death.

He also recalled the sequence of events that led to the discovery of the missing schoolgirl's body on August 13, 2019.
'Monk told us to look for Nóra near river,' says searcher.

Well, that's interesting. What happened to the searcher who claimed they heard she might be near a waterfall? Was that a completely different search team or just inaccurate reporting?

Where in the jungle were the Shamans when they predicted she would be found? I still think it's a strange coincidence that they said she was there, asked that she be returned, and soon after that she was found. It's too bad they did not consult with the monk earlier, since he seemed to have a pretty good idea of where she was.

 

[kittythehare]

Nora's mum pulled the window shut before she retired for the night.
She was unable to fasten it.
All witnesses testified that the window could have easily been opened from outside the building. Easily.
BUT, this would not be apparent to an opportunistic passer-by, it looked to be closed, like the others.
Did some thief just happen along and push all windows that appeared shut or was it somebody who was already very much aware that a faulty window fastening existed?
If the latter was the case, does it signify local involvement?
Entered window, encountered Nora, left via door, with Nora. Motivation is unclear but that is a possibility.
Malaysian police and corruption - بحث Google

 

[Chiatos]

When we first talked about this case, there was also talk of a third scenario- which is a middle ground of the two. I sometimes think this is something the police may have considered, but again have little evidence of anything. The middle ground is that she left the Sora alone and was found by someone and cared for.one thing that did become apparent during the parents testimony was that there were french, Irish and British police available from early on in the investigation, far more European police than I first realised - surely they would have whistleblowed if they felt the investigation was conducted improperly?

I'm afraid that French, Irish and British police wouldn't have blown the whistle at all. They were guests in Malaysia and diplomacy would have been the ultimate priority. Unfortunately.
I know it sounds harsh, but it has happened before.

 

[kittythehare]

Well, that's interesting. What happened to the searcher who claimed they heard she might be near a waterfall? Was that a completely different search team or just inaccurate reporting?

Where in the jungle were the Shamans when they predicted she would be found? I still think it's a strange coincidence that they said she was there, asked that she be returned, and soon after that she was found. It's too bad they did not consult with the monk earlier, since he seemed to have a pretty good idea of where she was.

I think the shamans were referring to her spirit which probably was there at that point.
I'm trying to remember - @Chiatos do you recall whether one of the parents denied they had discussed the possibility of a visit to the waterfall in Nora's presence? I have a feeling I heard that, can't be sure...??

 

[kittythehare]

I'm afraid that French, Irish and British police wouldn't have blown the whistle at all. They were guests in Malaysia and diplomacy would have been the ultimate priority. Unfortunately.
I know it sounds harsh, but it has happened before.

Absolutely. Softly, softly approach would have been necessary for fear of antagonising Malay police.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think the shamans were referring to her spirit which probably was there at that point.
I'm trying to remember - @Chiatos do you recall whether one of the parents denied they had discussed the possibility of a visit to the waterfall in Nora's presence? I have a feeling I heard that, can't be sure...??

I think I actually remember something like that now. It was continously reported that Nora wanted to see the waterfall and that a guest had overheard the family talking about it on the first day. When the reports came out about the searcher and how they had been told this, Nora's mother was dismissive of the whole story.

I'll have to go back and search for it, but I do remember there was inconsistent reporting throughout the entire investigation.

ETA, Also the Shaman was quoted as saying that Nora had been taken by a spirit, in the form of an animal or human, because she was a special needs child and they wanted her as a step child. He asked that she be returned in the same condition she was found in. Then they added that she is "here," and were waiting to find her. I assume they meant she is in the jungle, not far from where they were when they made the prediction.

Imo

 

[Chiatos]

I have found an image of the shamans somewhere in the jungle. Location unknown, I'm afraid.

The next day -> Nora's body was found

 

[Chiatos]

The volunteer, an expert in the area, said it would have been 'impossible' for the barefoot 15-year-old girl to walk across the forest on her own.
"Nora couldn't have got there by herself. I struggled to walk.
"The path is difficult even for an able-bodied person.
"Dense vegetation snags your feet. The roots and rocks are wet. My boots were destroyed by the end and Nora was barefoot."
He also explained the average gradient of the slope was range from 20 to 40 per cent and Nora would have to cross two streams.

Nora Quoirin 'couldn't make it to waterfall where she was found dead by herself'