Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[CoverMeCagney]

I’m not sure any of them would still be asleep on the mezzanine level at 8.30. Daylight was at 7.00 am and it would be flooded with daylight as the very open balcony was in the same room. They went to bed at 10.00 pm (in mums words that was an early night), that’s 9 hours (and whilst as adults most of us love our sleep, children tend to function well on much less sleep)

Back to the window, I wish I was able to interpret the police comments- nobody has ruled out the use of the front door. Even Noras mum said she couldn’t remember whether it was locked or unlocked when she went out after realising Nora wasn’t in the building. On that same note, I wonder how easy it is to access the sunken bath and how accessible that is from outside?

Hmmm, I always assumed that she vanished during the night, do we know what time the muffled voices were heard? I reckon by daylight you'd have some people around the resort - staff arriving for work, early riser guests going for hikes or whatever, cleaners, catering staff. In my experience of holidays (both big resorts and smaller ones like the Dusun) the early hours are a hive of 'practical' activity getting the day ready. I feel like if she was getting abducted after the sun came up, there would be witnesses who saw/heard something.

 

[kittythehare]

Hmmm, I always assumed that she vanished during the night, do we know what time the muffled voices were heard? I reckon by daylight you'd have some people around the resort - staff arriving for work, early riser guests going for hikes or whatever, cleaners, catering staff. In my experience of holidays (both big resorts and smaller ones like the Dusun) the early hours are a hive of 'practical' activity getting the day ready. I feel like if she was getting abducted after the sun came up, there would be witnesses who saw/heard something.

She did indeed vanish during darkness.
Dawn was at exactly 0711am. Her younger sister returned to bed just pre-dawn and found Nora was not there.
August 2019 — Sun in Kuala Lumpur

• July
• August
• September

Month: Year:
2019 Sunrise/Sunset Daylength Astronomical Twilight Nautical Twilight Civil Twilight Solar Noon
Aug Sunrise Sunset Length Diff. Start End Start End Start End Time Mil. km
1 07:11 ↑ (72°) 19:27 ↑ (288°) 12:15:11 −0:08 05:59 20:39 06:24 20:14 06:50 19:48 13:19 (75.1°) 151.856
2 07:11 ↑ (72°) 19:27 ↑ (288°) 12:15:03 −0:08 05:59 20:39 06:24 20:14 06:50 19:48 13:19 (75.3°) 151.837
3 07:11 ↑ (72°) 19:26 ↑ (288°) 12:14:54 −0:08 05:59 20:39 06:24 20:13 06:50 19:48 13:19 (75.6°) 151.817
4 07:11 ↑ (73°) 19:26 ↑ (287°) 12:14:46 −0:08 05:59 20:39 06:24 20:13 06:50 19:48 13:19 (75.8°) 151.797
5 07:11 ↑ (73°) 19:26 ↑ (287°) 12:14:37 −0:08 05:59 20:38 06:24 20:13 06:50 19:48 13:19 (76.1°) 151.775
6 07:11 ↑ (73°) 19:26 ↑ (287°) 12:14:29 −0:08 05:59 20:38 06:25 20:13 06:50 19:48 13:19 (76.4°) 151.753
7 07:11 ↑ (73°) 19:26 ↑ (286°) 12:14:20 −0:08 05:59 20:38 06:25 20:12 06:50 19:47 13:19 (76.7°) 151.730
8 07:11 ↑ (74°) 19:26 ↑ (286°) 12:14:11 −0:08 05:59 20:37 06:25 20:12 06:50 19:47 13:18 (76.9°) 151.707
9 07:11 ↑ (74°) 19:25 ↑ (286°) 12:14:02 −0:09 05:59 20:37 06:25 20:12 06:50 19:47 13:18 (77.2°) 151.683
10 07:11 ↑ (74°) 19:25 ↑ (286°) 12:13:53 −0:09 05:59 20:37 06:25 20:12 06:50 19:47 13:18 (77.5°) 151.658
11 07:11 ↑ (75°) 19:25 ↑ (285°) 12:13:43 −0:09 05:59 20:36 06:25 20:11 06:50 19:46 13:18 (77.8°) 151.633
12 07:11 ↑ (75°) 19:25 ↑ (285°) 12:13:34 −0:09 05:59 20:36 06:25 20:11 06:50 19:46 13:18 (78.1°) 151.607
13 07:11 ↑ (75°) 19:24 ↑ (285°) 12:13:25 −0:09 05:59 20:36 06:25 20:11 06:49 19:46 13:18 (78.4°) 151.581
14 07:11 ↑ (75°) 19:24 ↑ (284°) 12:13:15 −0:09 05:59 20:35 06:24 20:10 06:49 19:45 13:17 (78.7°) 151.555
15 07:11 ↑ (76°) 19:24 ↑ (284°) 12:13:06 −0:09 05:59 20:35 06:24 20:10 06:49 19:45 13:17 (79.0°) 151.528
16 07:11 ↑ (76°) 19:24 ↑ (284°) 12:12:56 −0:09 05:59 20:35 06:24 20:10 06:49 19:45 13:17 (79.3°) 151.501
17 07:10 ↑ (76°) 19:23 ↑ (283°) 12:12:46 −0:09 05:59 20:34 06:24 20:09 06:49 19:45 13:17 (79.7°) 151.473
18 07:10
↑ (77°) 19:23 ↑ (283°) 12:12:37 −0:09 05:59 20:34 06:24 20:09 06:49 19:44 13:17 (80.0°) 151.445
19 07:10 ↑ (77°) 19:23 ↑ (283°) 12:12:27 −0:09 05:59 20:33 06:24 20:09 06:49 19:44 13:16 (80.3°) 151.417
20 07:10 ↑ (77°) 19:22 ↑ (283
Sunrise and sunset times in Kuala Lumpur, August 2019
Nora was last seen at 10pm , night before.
She disappeared during the hours of darkness.

 

[MsBetsy]

where exactly did her parents over exaggerate her difficulties and what evidence had the police to the contrary? They had cctv showing her walking on a flat surface at the airport. That is NOT evidence to the contrary.
What witnesses could they possibly have spoken to that contradicted her parents testimony?
She was there for a single day before she disappeared.

I also think that when Nora's mother said she needed assistance in walking, she didn't literally mean with every step. She was probably confident when walking in a familiar place, or areas with flat surfaces without any obstacles in her path.

Her mom said there was always someone nearbye to assist her if needed, including her siblings.

 

[MsBetsy]

Hmmm, I always assumed that she vanished during the night, do we know what time the muffled voices were heard? I reckon by daylight you'd have some people around the resort - staff arriving for work, early riser guests going for hikes or whatever, cleaners, catering staff. In my experience of holidays (both big resorts and smaller ones like the Dusun) the early hours are a hive of 'practical' activity getting the day ready. I feel like if she was getting abducted after the sun came up, there would be witnesses who saw/heard something.

I don't think she disappeared after the sun came up. There was a group of searchers including staff that began searching for her that morning, and even they had a hard time getting through the thick jungle. I don't see how Nora could have gotten that far.

I don't know what time the voices were heard, but another hotel guest said she heard strange rustling sounds in the pool area near the Quoirin's chalet. I don't think we know what time that was, either. The truck heard by the villagers was at 3:00 am.

 

[kittythehare]

BBC report on teacher's testimony
Nóra Quoirin: Teacher tells inquest she would not have walked off

 

[Cascadia Mount]

I'm unsure what you mean by that?

I don't think parental instinct would be considered reliable evidence in an inquest. I believe in it though.

 

[kittythehare]

Police have told the inquest in Seremban an investigation showed no criminal element and there was no indication Nóra had been abducted. Officers believe she climbed out of a window on her own, and the post-mortem examination showed she succumbed to intestinal bleeding due to starvation and stress.

"Physically she was one of the most vulnerable pupils in the school, because of her balance issues," Mr Reeves said.

"Nóra's gait was quite fragile."

Nóra Quoirin inquest: Teenager wouldn't have 'had the confidence to walk off by herself'

 

[kittythehare]

• Head teacher Michael Reeves testified into the inquest into Nora's death today
• Nora attended Garratt Park School in Wandsworth, for special needs children
• The teacher doubted she could climb a fence given her physical limitations
• The family maintain Nora was abducted but police say she climbed out a window
• Nora vanished from Dusun rainforest resort, around 45 miles from Kuala Lumpur, where she had been staying with her parents and siblings on August 4 last year

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...bed-fence.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

 

[kittythehare]

Highly, highly unlikely for Quoirin to go out through window

Asked on the possible theory that Quoirin had gotten outside by exiting through a window roughly at the waist height of an adult, Reeves said Quoirin was absolutely incapable of doing so due to her physical limitations.

“Nora was much obviously much shorter than an average adult. So waist-height for an adult would be getting on to chest height for Nora and I just can’t imagine her having either the skill or balance or strength to climb over something like that.

“No, it’s just highly, highly unlikely,” he said, adding that Quoirin was very much conscious of her disabilities.

Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: Ex-headteacher affirms teen’s difficulties from medical abnormality, says unlikely climbed out window | Malay Mail

 

[Jax49]

I'm confused by the remarks which indicate the window was waist high (on an adult). I thought it was lower than that.

Does anyone have a better pic? Window is supposedly shown on right side, far back in kitchen area. This is from MSM.com but the article is no longer available.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm confused by the remarks which indicate the window was waist high (on an adult). I thought it was lower than that.
View attachment 272428

Does anyone have a better pic? Window is supposedly shown on right side, far back in kitchen area. This is from MSM.com but the article is no longer available.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4420716/...lnerable-brit-15-vanished-in-malaysia-jungle/

Nora's window 'was broken so could have been opened from outside'

 

[insearchoflight]

I think sometimes we get caught up in “highly unlikely” and “near impossible” when we need to remember that these cases are definitely the rarity so even if highly unlikely... the reason we are hearing about the case is because the seemingly impossible.. has happened. Moo

In this case everything I’ve read and seen since the very beginning leans towards Nora having left on her own. I know it’s highly unlikely due to her physical ailments. But that’s just it, highly unlikely. Not impossible. And this is a highly unusual case.

I still lean towards her leaving on a quest to the waterfall. And making it. Until I see evidence of any sort of physical harm, that’s where I stand.

 

[Jax49]

Cops release pics of window mysteriously propped open after Nora, 15, vanished

Nora's window 'was broken so could have been opened from outside'

Thank you. My memory seems to be right - it does not look to be waist high.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I'm confused by the remarks which indicate the window was waist high (on an adult). I thought it was lower than that.
View attachment 272428

Does anyone have a better pic? Window is supposedly shown on right side, far back in kitchen area. This is from MSM.com but the article is no longer available.

My take on it is that it is waist high on the outside. So like a drop to the ground. But not necessarily that high on the inside if that makes sense.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I'm confused by the remarks which indicate the window was waist high (on an adult). I thought it was lower than that.
View attachment 272428

Does anyone have a better pic? Window is supposedly shown on right side, far back in kitchen area. This is from MSM.com but the article is no longer available.

It does very much appear lower than that, possibly even the foot height that the headteacher said Nora could clamber over.

 

[Jax49]

My take on it is that it is waist high on the outside. So like a drop to the ground. But not necessarily that high on the inside if that makes sense.

Yes, it does make sense and I considered it earlier. But, it doesn't make sense if they are talking about her not being able to exit that way, which I think they were. moo

 

[Ruthbullock]

I've been following the case since the earliest days, but was wondering if any of Nora's siblings were physically taller/stronger than her?

We've heard her mom testify to what one of the siblings reported, regarding noticing that Nora was not in her bed. I wonder if the other kids were considered more adventurous/spontaneous compared to Nora.

The siblings have testified, but it has been kept private.

 

[Chiatos]

I think sometimes we get caught up in “highly unlikely” and “near impossible” when we need to remember that these cases are definitely the rarity so even if highly unlikely... the reason we are hearing about the case is because the seemingly impossible.. has happened. Moo

In this case everything I’ve read and seen since the very beginning leans towards Nora having left on her own. I know it’s highly unlikely due to her physical ailments. But that’s just it, highly unlikely. Not impossible. And this is a highly unusual case.

I still lean towards her leaving on a quest to the waterfall. And making it. Until I see evidence of any sort of physical harm, that’s where I stand.

You don't get it.
Medically speaking, Nora lacked muscular endurance. According to one of the Expert Reports, she wasn't able to sit or stand in one position for more than 20(?) seconds. Twenty seconds.
She might have exited by herself, but in no way did she reach the spot on her own where she was found after so many days.

To reach that spot one needs to have some degree of stamina and proper control of ones muscles. For sure.

 

[Chiatos]

Yes, it does make sense and I considered it earlier. But, it doesn't make sense if they are talking about her not being able to exit that way, which I think they were. moo

Nora would have fallen out of the window if she would have attempted to exit it.

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you. My memory seems to be right - it does not look to be waist high.

There were 3 windows, this image does not show 3 images of windows. We need to root out another internal photograph